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Old 02-26-2013, 08:47 PM   #21
Geoff D Geoff D is offline
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Blues Brothers is another one. The 5.1 remix uses plenty of new sound effects and what I think is a different take for 'Everybody...' when they sing it near the end of the film. IIRC the 2-disc SE DVD had the original 2.0 mix for the theatrical version of the film, but Universal didn't bother to put it on the Blu-ray.
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Old 02-26-2013, 09:25 PM   #22
EddieLarkin EddieLarkin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slimdude View Post
To me, a gunshot is just a gunshot, regardless what it sounds like. An improper sound effect, is not going to ruin the movie viewing experience for me. I couldn't tell the difference between the sound of a 1960 revolver, to a 2012 revolver. And besides, lossless audio, is loud anyway! If I hear a real gunshot outside of my house, do you think I'll be able to tell what make, model, and year of the gun was made? No. Unless I'm a firearm enthusiast or a gunsmith, an average person wouldn't notice.
Well sure, but that's not really the point. A change made to a film 50 years after the fact after the director has snuffed it, with those changes being presented as a more "definitive" way to watch the movie, is a dangerous practice in my opinion and it should be fought against in all its forms.

And it's not just changes, but additions and deletions too. In the Psycho 5.1 mix, when Marion turns on the shower, they decided to add a sort of gag like shower squeek as she turns the faucet. Why? Well because that's what sound a shower faucet makes right? Maybe (never in my experience), but Hitchcock and his sound man didn't put it there, so it shouldn't be there.
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Old 02-26-2013, 09:39 PM   #23
slimdude slimdude is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieLarkin View Post
Well sure, but that's not really the point. A change made to a film 50 years after the fact after the director has snuffed it, with those changes being presented as a more "definitive" way to watch the movie, is a dangerous practice in my opinion and it should be fought against in all its forms.

And it's not just changes, but additions and deletions too. In the Psycho 5.1 mix, when Marion turns on the shower, they decided to add a sort of gag like shower squeek as she turns the faucet. Why? Well because that's what sound a shower faucet makes right? Maybe (never in my experience), but Hitchcock and his sound man didn't put it there, so it shouldn't be there.
Do you pay this much attention to the foley, in every movie you see, and if so, how can you possibly enjoy the film, instead of watching the movie as a whole? I bet, nobody else would've notice the added sound effect in Psycho, because I sure didn't! Everybody is not that observing, keen, to listen to the foley in movies....Watching movies is not suppose to be a chore, nor stressful! Movies are made for entertainment purposes. If you're going analyze every sound effect in a movie, you're going to drive yourself bonkers. Relax, and watch movies for what they are, which is for entertainment, regardless of the modifications that have been made.

Last edited by slimdude; 02-27-2013 at 05:23 AM.
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Old 02-26-2013, 10:49 PM   #24
EddieLarkin EddieLarkin is offline
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Not close to every movie, just ones where there is reason to believe foley or music changes may have been made. Primarily popular classics that have had 5.1 remixes. It really comes down to how much you care about recreating the original theatrical director intended experience in your home. Go try and tell people that 1.37:1 films being cropped to 16:9 is OK because movies are "just entertainment", or that the Star Wars changes don't matter, or that colorisation of black and white films is no big deal.
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Old 02-26-2013, 11:06 PM   #25
ry35an ry35an is offline
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Some people have a better ear for these things and can notice even the subtlest change. I don't think that means they aren't enjoying the movie.

They're just wired that way.
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Old 02-26-2013, 11:16 PM   #26
singhcr singhcr is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slimdude View Post
Do you pay this much attention to the foley, in every movie you see, and if so, how can you possibly enjoy the film, instead of watching the movie as a whole? I bet, nobody else would've notice the added sound effect to Psycho, because I sure didn't! Everybody is not that observing, keen, to listen to the foley in movies....Watching movies is not suppose to be a chore, nor stressful! Movies are made for entertainment purposes. If you're going analyze every sound effect in a movie, you're going to drive yourself bonkers. Relax, and watch movies for what they are, which is for entertainment, regardless of the modifications that have been made.
I don't typically pay a ton of attention to stuff like that but if I've seen a movie many times I will definitely notice any changes in the audio or video department. For example, Robocop has some very distinct sound effects for Robocop's footsteps and his pistol. If they were changed I would know and I imagine many others would too.
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Old 02-27-2013, 12:01 AM   #27
nagysaudio nagysaudio is offline
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The Running Man - Olive Films' release has the original Dolby Stereo track in DTS HD-MA. Lionsgate does not, only the 7.1 remix.

Alien
Aliens
Cyborg
Death Warrant
Double Impact
Death Wish 2
Death Wish 3
Death Wish 4: The Crackdown
Escape From New York - MGM U.S. Release
For All Mankind - Criterion
The Great Dictator - Criterion
Gremlins
Halloween II
Halloween III: Season of the Witch
Hard Boiled
Rambo Trilogy - European Remastered Versions
It's a Wonderful Life
Killer Klowns from Outer Space
Modern Times - Criterion
Moonraker
A Nightmare on Elm Street Collection
National Lampoon's Christmas Vacation
Point Break
Poltergeist
Predator 2
Raging Bull
RoboCop
The Rolling Stones: Gimme Shelter - Criterion
Short Circuit - Second Sigh UK
Short Circuit 2
Solaris - Criterion
They Live
Videodrome - Criterion
Wake in Fright
AC/DC: Live at Donington
Breakfast at Tiffany's
Scanners - Umbrella Entertainment
The Brood - Umbrella Entertainment
No Retreat, No Surrender - Umbrella Entertainment
Citizen Kane
Cool Hand Luke
Dr. No
Flight of the Navigator - Second Sight UK
Friday the 13th Part 3
Police Story - Shout Factpry
Lifeforce - Scream Factory
King Kong
Ninja III: The Domination
Phenomena - Arrow
The Poseidon Adventure
The Sound of Music
Tank
The Ten Commandments
Tenebrae - Wild Side Video
The Wizard of Oz
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Old 02-27-2013, 01:16 AM   #28
EddieLarkin EddieLarkin is offline
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What does your above list represent nagysaudio? I was under the impression we were listing soundtracks that have significant changes from the originals, regardless of the inclusion of the original or not. I'm not aware of soundtrack changes to Citizen Kane or Solaris, which only have their mono tracks included anyway, and I know that the 5.1 remixes of the Alien/Aliens 4.0 originals are practically identical.
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Old 02-27-2013, 01:39 AM   #29
PuppyJonathan PuppyJonathan is offline
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All of the following Disney movies have their original mono tracks unless noted (which when they didn't):
Snow White and the Seven Dwarves
Pinocchio
Bambi
Dumbo
Cinderella (lossless)
Alice in Wonderland
Peter Pan
Lady and the Tramp (lossless, 3.0)
Sleeping Beauty (4.0)
The only one of those above which have not been included (that has been released) was Fantasia, which upgraded to 7.1 from it's orginal theatrical 5.0 mix
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Old 02-27-2013, 04:18 AM   #30
Saucerful Saucerful is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieLarkin View Post
Not close to every movie, just ones where there is reason to believe foley or music changes may have been made. Primarily popular classics that have had 5.1 remixes. It really comes down to how much you care about recreating the original theatrical director intended experience in your home. Go try and tell people that 1.37:1 films being cropped to 16:9 is OK because movies are "just entertainment", or that the Star Wars changes don't matter, or that colorisation of black and white films is no big deal.
I think this is very well put. I find that the desire for the audio to "use all your speakers" is analogous to the desire for the picture to "fill your whole screen" even when it was never meant to. Sure, not everybody is going to notice, but I would rather hear the film as it was originally intended.

As for Fistful of Dollars, I just queued up the mono track from the old 1999 MGM DVD to compare to the Blu-ray's 5.1. I know I'm probably splitting hairs here, but to my ears, despite the DVD's audio being from a noisier source, foley seems consistent across all tracks. I didn't check For A Few Dollars More, but I believe it to be the same as well. Granted, I still prefer the mono tracks across the board, but TGTBATU is the only 5.1 mix of the three to my knowledge that includes new foley sounds.
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Old 02-27-2013, 04:41 AM   #31
bigshot bigshot is offline
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The Mexican release of Dumbo doesn't have the original mono soundtrack, only a hideous 5:1 abomination.
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Old 02-27-2013, 10:21 AM   #32
EddieLarkin EddieLarkin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saucerful View Post
As for Fistful of Dollars, I just queued up the mono track from the old 1999 MGM DVD to compare to the Blu-ray's 5.1. I know I'm probably splitting hairs here, but to my ears, despite the DVD's audio being from a noisier source, foley seems consistent across all tracks. I didn't check For A Few Dollars More, but I believe it to be the same as well. Granted, I still prefer the mono tracks across the board, but TGTBATU is the only 5.1 mix of the three to my knowledge that includes new foley sounds.
Check Few Dollars More if you get chance. When van Cleef stops the train with the emergency brake, there is some additional crashing and booming in the surrounds. Also, before Eastwood enters the saloon during his introduction scene, the lightning strikes are timed differently
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Old 02-28-2013, 12:53 AM   #33
Saucerful Saucerful is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieLarkin View Post
Check Few Dollars More if you get chance. When van Cleef stops the train with the emergency brake, there is some additional crashing and booming in the surrounds. Also, before Eastwood enters the saloon during his introduction scene, the lightning strikes are timed differently
Indeed you are correct! Thank you for pointing this out. I didn't check it against the old Few Dollars More DVD since the two Blu tracks quite obviously differ, so there's little chance of the mono being a fold-down of anything. I find it odd that they would do this for Few Dollars More and TGTBATU but not Fistful.

One question I've had about Once Upon A Time In The West... both the DVD and the Blu-ray include a "Restored mono" track. As one of my favourite (if not my favourite) films of all time, I've wondered if there should be any distinction made between this "Restored mono" track and its original mono. In other words, has it been tampered with?
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Old 02-28-2013, 01:07 AM   #34
bluknight1 bluknight1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PuppyJonathan View Post
All of the following Disney movies have their original mono tracks unless noted (which when they didn't):
Snow White and the Seven Dwarves
Pinocchio
Bambi
Dumbo
Cinderella (lossless)
Alice in Wonderland
Peter Pan
Lady and the Tramp (lossless, 3.0)
Sleeping Beauty (4.0)
The only one of those above which have not been included (that has been released) was Fantasia, which upgraded to 7.1 from it's orginal theatrical 5.0 mix
Fantasia when originally released in 1940 played in 3-channel Fantasound. Reissues from 1941-the early 1950's were mono. The 1956 Superscope rerelease played in 4-track stereo and the creation of the 4-track master tapes for this is the only reason the Fantasound mix survives today. After that until 1990, reissues with the original audio were either fake stereo or mono. The reissues from 1990 onwards were specially mixed 70mm 6-track or Dolby SR to replicate the Fantasound mix. The 5.0 is from the original DVD. All home video releases pre-DVD (particularly the laserdisc) have directionality in the audio most faithful to the Fantasound mix.

Last edited by bluknight1; 02-28-2013 at 01:11 AM.
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Old 02-28-2013, 01:23 AM   #35
PuppyJonathan PuppyJonathan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluknight1 View Post
Fantasia when originally released in 1940 played in 3-channel Fantasound. Reissues from 1941-the early 1950's were mono. The 1956 Superscope rerelease played in 4-track stereo and the creation of the 4-track master tapes for this is the only reason the Fantasound mix survives today. After that until 1990, reissues with the original audio were either fake stereo or mono. The reissues from 1990 onwards were specially mixed 70mm 6-track or Dolby SR to replicate the Fantasound mix. The 5.0 is from the original DVD. All home video releases pre-DVD (particularly the laserdisc) have directionality in the audio most faithful to the Fantasound mix.
I heard Fantasound was 5.0
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