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Old 02-23-2015, 03:12 AM   #5121
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[Show spoiler]You know what part I hated the most? After decimating Metropolis, not once does Clark react to it, the entire final act is so black n white, they're evil so they must be stopped kind of deal. Superman just had to stop them because that was his duty in the film, he didnt really care about anything except stopping Zod. Did he care about wasting his own heritage? Nope he blasted that ship to pieces because "Krypton had it's chance!". So that would take it that he chose Earth right, that he finally accepted us no matter how flawed we were and began to emphasis with that? Nope, because as soon as he touches down in that crater all that's on his mind is kissing Lois a woman he barely knows and not once does the writing ever try to make her more than a walking cliche. It's not like he wasn't warned of potential disaster several times prior to the climax and own up to it right? Wrong!

By the time of the final slugfest, we already knew and so did our main protagonist that it was the scout craft's homing beacon that brought the Kryptonian outcasts to earth. So Clark inadvertently caused all this damage and loss. Had Clark simply been wandering about or not once discovered the ship chances are (although highly unlikely) Zod would have passed Earth by or simply not gone out in search of it once the beacon was activated. Where was this moment of reflection in the film. Here was the chance for Clark to redeem himself and the writers not once utilized this. Had he acknowledged once how he feels he must vindicate himself by stopping Zod because he feels somewhat responsible, would have given that fight the emotional oompf that it desperately needed.

Another chance where they could have redeemed his character or mature him slightly and for once make us the viewer emphasize with this boiring waste of a character was squandered over a damned joke he makes while kissing Lois. You know, where as soon as Supes touches down in the 3 mile wide crater that once was downtown Metropolis he immediately finds and kisses Lois with a smile on his face, a woman he barely knows and makes those stupid jokes. All of this after Superman just committed genocide on his own race of people by downing the scout ship and destroying Krypton's future, without blinking an eye.

Where's the feeling of loss in that scene? Clark destorys his own people when he chose to fight for earth yet he doesn't mourn them when they perish? He's standing in the ruins of a once great city whose population is literally dust at his freaking feet and not once did the writers or Snyder think hey there should be some reflective moment here,one that actually makes you want to root for the hero once Zod steps out of the ruins of the scout ship. Instead it's Zod who becomes the more sympathetic one, he actually cares that his race was eliminated and there's emotional weight tied to that final fight from his point of view. That's not at all where the film should have went.

Touch up the scene a bit and you might have a better climax.

Clark touches down into what was once downtown Metropolis. We zoom out revealing nothing for miles but ash and debris. The caped figure looks like a speck on a gray canvas. The sky is gray, covered in soot, blacking out the sun. The area resembles death. Cut to a close up of Clark looking around. The sight is overpowering to the Superman. Physically and emotionally spent, the kryptonian falls to his knees. Slouched over with his head down toward the ground, he now begins to realize just what this fight has cost the people of this fair city and begins to weep. A gentile hand reaches out and holds him. He looks up and through his point of view we see Lois. The two gaze at another his eyes swollen with regret hers, loving and empathetic.
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Old 02-23-2015, 11:37 PM   #5122
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A single scream with no context behind it, for all we know he was just upset he killed a single guy or that he broke a pinky finger snapping his neck. He showed no remorse before then in the crater which would have given an emotional weight to the battle or afterwards when reflecting with his mother. Nope it was, "I got a job and a girlfriend life is good."
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Old 02-23-2015, 11:42 PM   #5123
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What a crock. I am so sick of people blaming Clark/Superman/Kal for the actions of criminal psychopaths. He finds out about the scout ship after the military digs it up and he brought them here and "caused all this damage and loss." He's new to this whole super thing, just learning his limits - fighting three super beings - but everything that wasn't perfect is all his fault. Maybe you guys should go find another super-hero to root for - or invent your own : PerfectMan! Or stick to the totally unrealistic adventures of yesteryear - where Superman never faltered or even broke a sweat, where his enemies were lame-o wimps who posed no real danger to anybody and there was NO loss, NO damage, NO casualties. Enjoy those thrilling 1940's commix and the adventures of George Reeves - time moves on, maybe you should too.
First off not once did I say that the damage bothered me, I had problems with one sequence. He arrives in the crater and any other person would have reacted to it. I not once said he was responsible. I said he should feel responsible for it. Like a rookie quarterback throwing an interception to cost the game even if the defense was lousy the quarterback usually blames himself solely for the loss. He's a rookie who made a rookie mistake, he should have owned up to it even if it wasnt his fault. It gives depth to an otherwise blank scene of violence. Lois could have been there to comfort him and reassure him otherwise, it would not only give her more to do than sit there and look pretty but make their relationship more palpable.

Funny you mention the 1940's comics and cartoon because Clark's example of punching things and punching some more things to solve the problem without any kind of emotion is exactly how Supes was portrayed in the 1940's comics and Fleischer cartoons.

Last edited by trans8010; 02-24-2015 at 12:16 AM.
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Old 02-24-2015, 12:15 AM   #5124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Early Memphis View Post
What a crock. I am so sick of people blaming Clark/Superman/Kal for the actions of criminal psychopaths. He finds out about the scout ship after the military digs it up and he brought them here and "caused all this damage and loss." He's new to this whole super thing, just learning his limits - fighting three super beings - but everything that wasn't perfect is all his fault. Maybe you guys should go find another super-hero to root for - or invent your own : PerfectMan! Or stick to the totally unrealistic adventures of yesteryear - where Superman never faltered or even broke a sweat, where his enemies were lame-o wimps who posed no real danger to anybody and there was NO loss, NO damage, NO casualties. Enjoy those thrilling 1940's commix and the adventures of George Reeves - time moves on, maybe you should too.
Not to mention, the World Engine and the Black Zero caused most of the destructive damage to Metropolis, not the fight.

And people need to consider this; had he not stopped the World Engine and just decided to save people first, how many countless lives would've been lost?

Again, people need to present the ENTIRE fact as presented in MAN OF STEEL and stop cherry picking that film to death.

Him snapping pleading with Zod and then ultimately snapping his neck was cry of realizing that he just killed someone and the fact that he also made himself the Last Son of Krypton. In the end, it was either the family or Zod.

And I don't condone violence but understand the position that Snyder and Goyer put this new version of Superman in. It made sense to me.
"Because he's the hero that Gotham deserves, but not the one it needs right now... and so we'll hunt him... because he can take it... because he's not a hero... he's a silent guardian, a watchful protector... a DARK KNIGHT."
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Old 02-24-2015, 12:19 AM   #5125
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Loved it can't wait for Batman V Superman.
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Old 02-24-2015, 12:58 AM   #5126
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I loved Man of Steel and my favorite scene was the first flight sequence but I always felt it was way way too short. I just watched Big Hero 6 and the first flight sequence was over 3 minutes. Very satisfying.
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Old 02-24-2015, 03:08 AM   #5127
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A single scream with no context behind it, for all we know he was just upset he killed a single guy or that he broke a pinky finger snapping his neck. He showed no remorse before then in the crater which would have given an emotional weight to the battle or afterwards when reflecting with his mother. Nope it was, "I got a job and a girlfriend life is good."
[Show spoiler]It's not really, real bro.


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Old 02-24-2015, 03:35 AM   #5128
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Originally Posted by trans8010 View Post
First off not once did I say that the damage bothered me, I had problems with one sequence. He arrives in the crater and any other person would have reacted to it. I not once said he was responsible. I said he should feel responsible for it. Like a rookie quarterback throwing an interception to cost the game even if the defense was lousy the quarterback usually blames himself solely for the loss. He's a rookie who made a rookie mistake, he should have owned up to it even if it wasnt his fault. It gives depth to an otherwise blank scene of violence. Lois could have been there to comfort him and reassure him otherwise, it would not only give her more to do than sit there and look pretty but make their relationship more palpable.

Funny you mention the 1940's comics and cartoon because Clark's example of punching things and punching some more things to solve the problem without any kind of emotion is exactly how Supes was portrayed in the 1940's comics and Fleischer cartoons.
You sound young and dont understand the context in which Superman was created. It was WW2. The comic book audience didnt need backstories or deep emotions. They wanted hard John Wayne type heroes to defeat the enemy without any remorse. Applying modern values makes your calculations way off.

Your just going to have to deal with the directors stance and just respectfully disagree with the artistic choices made with this version. Its not the definitive written in stone version. Let it be.
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Old 02-24-2015, 05:46 AM   #5129
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[Show spoiler]It's not really, real bro.


I love this GIF. Except for the kid-angle, I really liked SR. The Booshman Cut of Superman Returns is excellent. (Cut out kid and corny lines, plus color corrected the blue back in.)
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Old 02-24-2015, 09:29 PM   #5130
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You sound young and dont understand the context in which Superman was created. It was WW2. The comic book audience didnt need backstories or deep emotions. They wanted hard John Wayne type heroes to defeat the enemy without any remorse. Applying modern values makes your calculations way off.

Your just going to have to deal with the directors stance and just respectfully disagree with the artistic choices made with this version. Its not the definitive written in stone version. Let it be.
One sequence or two key sequences, I thought would have strengthened the film make it more complete. I thought MOS was handled sloppily. This was supposed to be the definitive Superman for our era and I felt they missed the mark. Not because of the damages or the lack of saving people. Although one particular sequence in Smallville was overkill and went on for far too long but I've long since made piece with that.

They were more interested in showing the actions and ignoring the consequences reserving that for the next film as an audience baiter and I hate that. It's a lazy way to end a film or extend a story. What if the film bombed? This would have been our next take on the Man of Steel? Say what you want about Superman Returns, and it is a bad film, it at least looked like a complete stand alone story.

There was really no defining point where one could ultimately say he's going to be a hero now. If anything it looked like he was cleaning up a mess and had no personal involvement on any side. You say it's because he's now the Last Son of Krypton, when would he think that? All his life he's always been alone and the one chance he has at something else there's nothing there, they all want to kill him or kill the ones who took care of him perhaps loved. Not once does he feel broken or depressed because of this. Zod arrives on Earth announces the destruction of it's people unless Superman is handed over. Not once would Clark ever emphasis with these so called Kryptonians. So the whole crack about him finally being alone because HE killed his entire race doesnt hold any weight. There's no personal involvement here.

In that regard Henry's Superman acts more like the 1940's Fleischer cartoon version. Maybe that will change in upcoming installments bringing this one full circle but until then this will remain a dismal effort.
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Old 02-24-2015, 09:49 PM   #5131
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Originally Posted by trans8010 View Post
There was really no defining point where one could ultimately say he's going to be a hero now.
Why do you need some "hit you over the head" obvious turning point or defining point? You need a caterpiller to Butterfly moment?

When the Smallville fight was over, the military stood down and realized Superman was on their side. That to me was clear as day who's side he was on and what town/people he was defending. And that was after Jor-El told him he can help Earth. And then he saves the family in the end.

Maybe you needed clearer examples, but to me it was pretty straight forward.
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Old 02-24-2015, 10:48 PM   #5132
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They were more interested in showing the actions and ignoring the consequences reserving that for the next film as an audience baiter and I hate that. It's a lazy way to end a film or extend a story. What if the film bombed? This would have been our next take on the Man of Steel? Say what you want about Superman Returns, and it is a bad film, it at least looked like a complete stand alone story.
.
Why has this word become the go to word to criticize a movie?

Lazy and Amazing are two words that are seriously overused by the internet.

Carry on.
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Old 02-24-2015, 10:52 PM   #5133
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Why has this word become the go to word to criticize a movie?

Lazy and Amazing are two words that are seriously overused by the internet.

Carry on.
It is amazing how lazy a lot of internet reviewers are.
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Old 02-24-2015, 11:05 PM   #5134
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It is amazing how lazy a lot of internet reviewers are.
Well, it sure is amazing how lazy a lot of internet reviewers, viewers and posters are.
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Old 02-24-2015, 11:10 PM   #5135
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I was going to post an amazing comment..but I'm too lazy.
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Old 02-25-2015, 12:43 AM   #5136
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Amazing and lazy are epic words.
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Old 02-25-2015, 12:52 AM   #5137
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I find your use of epic lazy and not very amazing at all.
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Old 02-25-2015, 04:17 AM   #5138
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I'll never understand the issue with the ending because Zod insisted on killing as many people as possible so he wouldn't leave the city and you should definitely kill a dude to save three innocents, so whatever.

However the movie was deeply flawed for many other reasons, so in the end who cares really. It's not some great movie to defend either way.
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Old 02-25-2015, 04:22 AM   #5139
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I'll never understand the issue with the ending because Zod insisted on killing as many people as possible so he wouldn't leave the city and you should definitely kill a dude to save three innocents, so whatever.

However the movie was deeply flawed for many other reasons, so in the end who cares really. It's not some great movie to defend either way.
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