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Old 10-03-2015, 11:48 PM   #1
DGilberts DGilberts is offline
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Default John Wick Blu-Ray audio dropout and sync issue

Hi guys

I sat and watched John Wick tonight, an awesome movie. But during the first act I noticed a few slight drops in the audio followed by a slight audio to screen sync/delay.

Will this be a problem across all Atmos encoded movies?
Is it a player or receiver issue?

My player has always been set on bitstream since my system was calibrated and my equipment is in my signature. I have changed the player back to PCM and it improved it straight away.

Look forward to hearing your thoughts.

Best regards
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Last edited by DGilberts; 10-03-2015 at 11:53 PM.
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Old 10-04-2015, 12:13 AM   #2
fredreed fredreed is offline
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I would try other movies using the atmos setting and if it happens with other movies I would have a look at the audio cable and I would also get someone to look at your setup. It could be how the equipment is set up.
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Old 10-04-2015, 02:41 AM   #3
JackKnightStarman JackKnightStarman is offline
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Lionsgate authors there films differently than other Atmos using Studios. Take you player and change the audio from bitstreaming to pcm. If you still have audio drop outs than you have a defective disc. Otherwise your Blu-ray player old and not able by firmware update to be updated to decoding Atmos without interference. I have the same problem with my player, and every time I watch a Lionsgate title that has Atmos, I have to due what I just told you to try.
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Old 10-04-2015, 03:00 PM   #4
Scarriere Scarriere is offline
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That's a seriously nice player you've got and I doubt the issue is to do with that.
What Jack said above is probably the best bet.
Never be afraid to try something new.
Remember, amateurs built the Ark...professionals built the Titanic.
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Old 10-04-2015, 04:59 PM   #5
schan1269 schan1269 is offline
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Looking at the sig(via Tapatalk), what player do you have?

I've bought all new BD players just this year(all multi-region LG). None of them have issues with John Wick(nor any other Lionsgate).

My recently retired Sony 350(it quit playing center channel audio on, ironically, Sony titles) skips on everything Lionsgate that has branching.

This. Is. Not. A. New. Issue. With. Lionsgate.
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Old 10-04-2015, 05:26 PM   #6
Tech-UK Tech-UK is offline
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As the other posters have said, some BD players have issues with Atmos encoded tracks when bitstreaming.

Setting the player to output PCM should fix the issue, as you have done. Also check for any firmware updates for your player.

Looking at the manual for your player, it features the DTS-HD Master Audio Essentials decoder, which means when you set the player to output PCM, it will down sample 192kHz DTS-HD MA tracks to 96kHz and output 5.1 as 7.1. There are very little Blu-ray's that feature DTS-HD MA with fs of 192kHz, but just to make you aware of the Essentials decoder. If you bitstream, then you will get the full 192kHz fs and 5.1 tracks will be output as is.
"It's too bad she won't live.. But then again who does."
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Last edited by Tech-UK; 10-04-2015 at 05:39 PM.
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Old 10-04-2015, 05:29 PM   #7
schan1269 schan1269 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tech-UK View Post
As the other posters have said, some BD players have issues with Atmos encoded tracks when bitstreaming.

Setting the player to output PCM should fix the issue, as you have done. Also check for any firmware updates for your player.
The problem is not...Atmos.

The problem is Lionsgate branching.
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Old 10-04-2015, 06:13 PM   #8
Tech-UK Tech-UK is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schan1269 View Post
The problem is not...Atmos.

The problem is Lionsgate branching.
Branching in what regard? In terms of the way the files are broken up on the BD?
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Old 10-04-2015, 06:22 PM   #9
schan1269 schan1269 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tech-UK View Post
Branching in what regard? In terms of the way the files are broken up on the BD?
Do I know the complete "technicalities behind it"?

No.

But it is the way Lionsgate preps the branching along with the DRM scheme(I read somewhere, they tied them together).

The audio dropouts are caused by a momentary lapse in the players playback. That makes the AVR "lose the codec*" and have to figure it out again.

Easiest way to explain it...

The same thing happens when trying to play CD in a DVD/BD player over an HDMI connection. Every time you hit a new track(branch in Lionsgate), you get a 1/3 to 1/2 second audio gap** waiting on the AVR to process* the signal.

Newer(as of 2014 models, sold new since Sept '13) models keep up with the branching scheme.

So, yes..this has been going on for two years now.

*if the player is set PCM...

1. Make sure your player can send 5.1/7.1 PCM.
2. You lose the Atmos data.
3. The branching problem disappears.

**The very same reason Spotify/Pandora/IHeart etc all now have "gapless playback". Roku and ATV over HDMI.
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Last edited by schan1269; 10-04-2015 at 06:30 PM.
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Old 10-04-2015, 06:46 PM   #10
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Interesting.
"It's too bad she won't live.. But then again who does."
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Old 10-04-2015, 07:06 PM   #11
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^ Yes, it is.

Schan must have a HUGE head to fit all those brains in it.
Lol
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Old 10-05-2015, 01:47 PM   #12
DGilberts DGilberts is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schan1269 View Post
Looking at the sig(via Tapatalk), what player do you have?

I've bought all new BD players just this year(all multi-region LG). None of them have issues with John Wick(nor any other Lionsgate).

My recently retired Sony 350(it quit playing center channel audio on, ironically, Sony titles) skips on everything Lionsgate that has branching.

This. Is. Not. A. New. Issue. With. Lionsgate.
I have a UD7007 by Marantz playing through a 1403 Marantz receiver. Changed the player output to PCM and i have no issues with this disc now, also the sound appears to have a more Dynamic range (that might just be my ears playing tricks though).

Thanks
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Oppo UDP-203 Ultra HD Blu-ray Player, Marantz UD7007 Blu-Ray Player-Multi-Region, Marantz NR1506 AV Receiver, Apple TV, Amazon Fire TV, Sky Q
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Old 10-05-2015, 01:52 PM   #13
DGilberts DGilberts is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tech-UK View Post
As the other posters have said, some BD players have issues with Atmos encoded tracks when bitstreaming.

Setting the player to output PCM should fix the issue, as you have done. Also check for any firmware updates for your player.

Looking at the manual for your player, it features the DTS-HD Master Audio Essentials decoder, which means when you set the player to output PCM, it will down sample 192kHz DTS-HD MA tracks to 96kHz and output 5.1 as 7.1. There are very little Blu-ray's that feature DTS-HD MA with fs of 192kHz, but just to make you aware of the Essentials decoder. If you bitstream, then you will get the full 192kHz fs and 5.1 tracks will be output as is.
Wow thank you for this information. So with my set up play John Wick and Star Trek Into Darkness (IMAX version) using PCM output and all others play using Bitstream to ensure I'm listening to the full kHz?

Many thanks
Panasonic TX-65CZ952B OLED TV & Panasonic TX-P60ZT65B-THX Calibrated Video, by Dr Julian Scott www.displaycalibration.co.uk
Oppo UDP-203 Ultra HD Blu-ray Player, Marantz UD7007 Blu-Ray Player-Multi-Region, Marantz NR1506 AV Receiver, Apple TV, Amazon Fire TV, Sky Q
4 x KEF HTS3001SE Satellites, KEF HTC3001SE Centre, 2 x KEF HTB2SE Subwoofers Front and Rear Placement
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Old 10-05-2015, 04:21 PM   #14
schan1269 schan1269 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DGilberts View Post
Wow thank you for this information. So with my set up play John Wick and Star Trek Into Darkness (IMAX version) using PCM output and all others play using Bitstream to ensure I'm listening to the full kHz?

Many thanks
The only difference...

The cool lights won't turn on on the AVR display.
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Old 10-05-2015, 04:38 PM   #15
DGilberts DGilberts is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schan1269 View Post
The only difference...

The cool lights won't turn on on the AVR display.
Are ok. Well i don't have any displays on anyway, hate the distractions.

DTS HD codes:
I just picking up a previous comment about the downsampling on my Blu-Ray player.
My player has the DTS-HD Master Audio Essentials decoder, while the receiver has the DTS-HD Master Audio decoder. Tech UK says the player will downsample to 96kHz. So if the receiver does it will it be the full 192kHz.

Dolby HD:
Is there any differences between the player and receivers downsampling of this code?

Funny thing is i think it sounds better when the player is unpacking th code and sending the sound via PCM.

Cheers guys, learning more every day on here.
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Old 10-05-2015, 10:05 PM   #16
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Yes, if you bitstream a DTS-HD MA track that is 192kHz, your receiver will playback at 192kHz, if your receiver has the full fat DTS-HD MA decoder.

My player only has an Essentials decoder so that is how I know.

Your BD player will have the full Dolby TrueHD decoder, so you should have no problems with TrueHD tracks, in that regard.

The sound difference you are hearing will most likely be down to decoding within the player and outputting PCM sometimes differs in volume to when bitstreaming.

I would make sure that DRC (Dynamic Range Compression) is set to off within your BD player as well.
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Old 10-05-2015, 10:20 PM   #17
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The Essentials decoder isn't that well documented, but what I have found is:

Downsamples 192kHz to 96kHz
Upmixes 5.1 tracks to 7.1
Does not support DTS 96/24 lossy tracks, ES flags etc. (ignores the additional data, so will only play a DTS 96/24 track at 48kHz)
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Old 10-05-2015, 10:28 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tech-UK View Post
The Essentials decoder isn't that well documented, but what I have found is:

Downsamples 192kHz to 96kHz
Upmixes 5.1 tracks to 7.1
Does not support DTS 96/24 lossy tracks, ES flags etc. (ignores the additional data, so will only play a DTS 96/24 track at 48kHz)
Thank you for your help. I was struggling to find details of the essential decoder as well. Might go back to bitstream and change to PCM when needed if you loose clarity in the soundtrack.

I'm going to upgrade to the NR1606 with Atmos next year. Do you think the seemless branching that Lionsgate use will be an issue with that receiver and my 7007 player?
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Old 10-05-2015, 10:40 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DGilberts View Post
Thank you for your help. I was struggling to find details of the essential decoder as well. Might go back to bitstream and change to PCM when needed if you loose clarity in the soundtrack.

I'm going to upgrade to the NR1606 with Atmos next year. Do you think the seemless branching that Lionsgate use will be an issue with that receiver and my 7007 player?
No problem.

As schan1269 has stated, newer players/receivers should have no problems, but like anything, you will only know if others have stated otherwise or when you test the equipment yourself.

Just another note on the Essentials decoder, I don't know if the decoder will downsample 2.0 DTS-HD MA tracks with an fs of 192kHz. The reason why I believe the Essentials decoder does downsample, is that DTS-HD MA from what I can see, doesn't support 7.1 at 192kHz, and the Essentials decoder upmixes 5.1 to 7.1.

I have a few DTS-HD MA tracks that are 5.1 and 7.1 of which feature a 96kHz fs and have no problems playing them back when decoding within the player, but I don't own any 192kHz DTS-HD MA tracks.
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Old 12-24-2015, 08:54 AM   #20
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Default Audio dropouts with Sony BDP-S1500

With a new Sony BDP-S1500 Blu-ray player I had audio dropouts about once every hour, whether I played a DVD or watched Netflix. When I noticed a dropout I rewatched the video where the dropout was and there has never been a dropout on the second pass. I bought another unit of the same model and again I'm hearing audio dropouts. I've gotten the audio dropouts using three different HDMI cables including a new cable. I've been wondering whether I've been observing a defect in the BDP-S1500 player, but after reading this thread I found an audio setting in the player that is described in the manual as follows:

[Digital Audio Output]
[Auto]: Normally select this. Outputs audio signals according to the status of the connected devices.
[PCM]: Outputs PCM signals from the DIGITAL OUT (COAXIAL)/HDMI OUT jack.

The setting had been on Auto but I've changed it to PCM. Based on what I've read in this thread I'm hoping that I will no longer experience audio dropouts. Does that seem likely?
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