The Blue Angel (1930)

[cavesailor]

Originally Posted by Lutz

I think the movie is using the idea of how destructive social mores can be.

If the professor had loved Dietrich the end performance would have been him returning to the place he came from and validating his choices by presenting his transformation with pride. The professor only enjoys the social standing that his job offers him from people who never cared for or respected him. He only marries Dietrich to take on another social role - that of a husband - and being married to a woman who loved him but was of lesser social stature he has completely ignored the emotional and personal fulfillment he could have enjoyed.

I have questioned myself wither TBA is just a morality play or mayby even an anti-morality play. I know from the commentary in the DVD set that the auther of the book was pointing out the double standards of the social elite. I am undecided if Von Sternberg was doing the same thing since he changed the ending.

I find your statement on the Prof's lack of love for Lola interesting. I have always believed he truly loved her. Some men would have been content to have her just as their mistress, but he loved her and his morals dictated that he marry her. I have always thought the Question was Did Lola really love the Prof? He only regrets his decision to marry her when she loses interest in him and treats him like a nobody. I will have to give this some thought.

In your 1st post, you mentioned Marlene Dietrich's other movies with director Josef Von Sternberg. I have 3 other such movies on DVD. In a later post I will discuss them.

[NoirFan]

Originally Posted by dsman71

They did say in 2013 they will have a special edition.

That's weird - then why release this one at all, with a SE following so quickly on its heels, and confirmed by Kino too? There's really no reason to buy this version then.

[Ufacat]

"I have always believed he truly loved her. "

I wonder what makes you think he truly loves her? I always thought that he was justifying his lust for her to bring acceptability and decency to his overwhelming sexual attraction to her. Not to mention that this dream girl allows him the time of day. Surely, if he truly loved her for her character and who she truly is, he would not have been so in denial about her base nature. He never really knows her.

I think she is flattered to high heaven to have someone of respectability give up so much for her, but then she is bored by his sanctimonious ways and loses respect when he comes down in the world.

[cavesailor]

Originally Posted by Ufacat

"I have always believed he truly loved her. "

I wonder what makes you think he truly loves her? I always thought that he was justifying his lust for her to bring acceptability and decency to his overwhelming sexual attraction to her. Not to mention that this dream girl allows him the time of day. Surely, if he truly loved her for her character and who she truly is, he would not have been so in denial about her base nature. He never really knows her.

I should rephrase and say that he thinks he truly loves her. I don't want to sound corny talking about true love ( thats the subject of "the Princess Bride." He would have to get to know her much better before he really knew if he loved her. However, his infatuation and sexual attraction causes him to really believe he is in love. He would not be the first man to confuse the issues.

If it was just about sex, he could have that without marriage. Money talks in cabarets. He puts up with too much degradation for him not to believe that he loves her. He would have given up on Lola much earlier and would not have been driven carzy.

Lola, on the other hand, I am less sure of. She is a hustler. She knows that she is super sexy and she plays on it. She knows how to flatter men to get favor. Is she capable of love? Sure. It is also true that she could have gotten the Professor's money without marrige so why marry? Ahh more questions.

[Lutz]

The professor loves his job and the social standing it affords him.

The real question that proves this point to me - if the the professor had not been disgraced would he have voluntarily left his job to marry Dietrich?

He wouldn't have. Because he has lost his social role he must assume a new one and he takes on the role of husband. Now the primary difference by modern standards that you have to remember is that a woman has no role in society and the only job a woman is allowed is that of a prostitute (this is taken up again in more detail with Blonde Venus where Dietrich is thrown into pointedly outrageous situations as the Mother/Wife/*****). When Dietrich is forced to take up the role of breadwinner instead of her husband prostitution is the only profession she has - it is not personal. This is Dietrich compromising herself as a wife to support her husband

If the professor had loved Dietrich he would have been proud of her and worked to support her how he could. The marriage would have been a positive transformation and he could have returned to the place he came from with pride.

And by my own personal bias - I don't think Sternberg has it in him to portray the purely sexist story that "woman is mans downfall".

[cavesailor]

Originally Posted by Lutz

The professor loves his job and the social standing it affords him.

The real question that proves this point to me - if the the professor had not been disgraced would he have voluntarily left his job to marry Dietrich?

He wouldn't have. Because he has lost his social role he must assume a new one and he takes on the role of husband. Now the primary difference by modern standards that you have to remember is that a woman has no role in society and the only job a woman is allowed is that of a prostitute (this is taken up again in more detail with Blonde Venus where Dietrich is thrown into pointedly outrageous situations as the Mother/Wife/*****). When Dietrich is forced to take up the role of breadwinner instead of her husband prostitution is the only profession she has - it is not personal. This is Dietrich compromising herself as a wife to support her husband

I agree that the Prof. liked and valued his scocial standing and I understand your position about needing a new role, but I do not see that as being a husband. As you point out, the men were expected to be the bread winners. Lola had a paying job allbeit a low paying one. He had just lost his so at the time of marriage there was a role reversal that was not common at the time. She gave up nothing at first to marry him as she continued in her same life. The movie did not mention it, but in the book, Lola recklessly goes quickly through his savings. All the Prof. had to do to keep his job was to stop seeing Lola. He chose to quit instead. I am still not convinced that he was marring for some other reason than love.

[cavesailor]

Originally Posted by Lutz

And by my own personal bias - I don't think Sternberg has it in him to portray the purely sexist story that "woman is mans downfall".

As to Lola, do not think for a moment that I take the position that any of Von Sternberg's movies convey the idea that woman is mans downfall. I think he clearly shows that men are their own worst enemies. He has a much more complex view of the male-female relationship.

He does in fact present women as being fully equal in all respects to men. I think that is why he and Dietrich worked so well together. He respected not only her sensuality, but also her intelligence and wit.

With the exception of The Blue Angel, he goes one step further to show that often as not, the women are the ones making a sacrifice to keep the relationship going as you have correctly pointed out above.

The movie I most enjoyed of theirs was "Morocco" where she is paired up with Gary Cooper. Each one of them had many members of the opposite sex attracted to them and they both thought they were happy not being married. Then they met, fell in love, and almost separate. At the end however she follows him into the desert.

Even in her most outlandish vamp role in "The Devil is a Woman" She went back to her man of choice at the very end.

However, TBA is different. Maybe becuase it was their 1st movie that probed the complex relationship between Men and women. Maybe Sternberg felt obligated to follow the book although not completely. Maybe I misunderstood or missed something in the story, but this is why I need other thoughts and ideas. Thank you for sharring already.

[cavesailor]

My KINO Blu-ray has shipped, I should have it in a few days. In the mean time, my region free player from 220 came in . I tested it out on El Cid and it worked great. So, I'll be ordering the MoC edition from UK. I look forward to viewing both soon.

[JJJ225]

Von Sternberg is one of my all time favorite directors. I love this film. Can't wait to own the Blu Ray.

[cavesailor]

pro-bassoonist's review of Eureka's MoC release is out and it sounds very goood. It officially comes out tomorrow, but some who have ordered directly from Eureka have already received it. I have my order in. I am loolking forward to watching the extras.

Has anyone received further word on Kino's expanded edition?

[dsman71]

I ordered it too, plus the warner steelbooks for Grand Hotel and Maltese Falcon Love the artwork and steelbook...might get Treasure of Sierra Madre too.
I wont need the Kino special edition Blu Ray now for Blue Angel, but their stuff has been below par lately.

[NoirFan]

That's weird - I have the Britain box selected for reviews, but none show up.

Edit: I also have France selected, but none of those appear either, unless I select the 'Foreign' option to the right of Reviews. Is this a bug of some kind? I noticed you still can't search for International releases without the Best Deals reverting to International as well.

[pro-bassoonist]

This does not sound good.

Could you check your personal settings in the profile and let me know what you see? (Upper right corner, profile not search bar).

Pro-B

[KCota15]

In their Winter Catalog under "The Blue Angel" it says, "This contains only the German version. A deluxe edition will be released 2013"

[cavesailor]

Originally Posted by KCota15

In their Winter Catalog under "The Blue Angel" it says, "This contains only the German version. A deluxe edition will be released 2013"

Yes, thank you. This has been the only word on the deluxe edition. If anyone gets further word please post here. If it includes any new extras or comentary, I will buy it also.

[vdmello]

And the professor fell in love with the young actress...