Listening paradigm

[Fors*]

Originally Posted by aces high

My wife used to work nights, still does sometimes but nearly as often. With two small children at home I couldn't go anywhere and got sick of watching reruns on tv so I started watching movies.

After that it was the natural progression of this hobby, the tv speakers weren't cutting it so I picked up an HTIB. That worked for six months just making whatever tweaks I could to the entry level system, once I exhausted those, which wasn't hard, I started looking at what the next step would be. The rest as they say is history.

This is exactly what happened to me and why I got into the hobby as well. I figured, if you are going to be stuck at home with the kids, might as well pick up a new hobby that keeps you there and that the whole family can enjoy.

[callas01]

Originally Posted by Fors*

[/B]

This is exactly what happened to me and why I got into the hobby as well. I figured, if you are going to be stuck at home with the kids, might as well pick up a new hobby that keeps you there and that the whole family can enjoy.

+1,

but not to mention, I enjoy watching movies at my house moreso then the theater now-a-days as well. The theater is a once in a while I have to see it now thing typically or if my daughters want to see something. But relaxing at home and watching a movie is the best.

[Fors*]

Originally Posted by callas01

+1,

but not to mention, I enjoy watching movies at my house moreso then the theater now-a-days as well. The theater is a once in a while I have to see it now thing typically or if my daughters want to see something. But relaxing at home and watching a movie is the best.

I haven't been to a movie theater but once in the last 4 years, and that was for my daughter. If my wife and I ever go to the theater again by ourselves, it will be the 3D Imax theater that opened a year ago. I don't think I will ever go back to a regular movie theater to watch a 2D movie unless my daughter or son require me to.

[Johnny Vinyl]

Originally Posted by prerich

Do you see how much we discuss gear and not music itself (it's performance, what we like about it, dislikes)....These things shape our listening. I would like to add a question to this discussion, what got you into high fidelity? What happened to make you like this hobby? This will help to answer further questions.

My father is the person from whom I acquired the love of music...not gear, but music. As such I've always been drawn to good music first. This, in the eyes of many, did not make me an audiophile as I placed gear as a secondary factor in my enjoyment. Good/great/excellent gear might enhance the music, but it doesn't make the music.

While I make no bones about the fact I'd love to own a better system, it is not and will never be a prerequisite for the enjoyment of the music I love or is dear to me.

[prerich]

Originally Posted by Johnny Vinyl

My father is the person from whom I acquired the love of music...not gear, but music. As such I've always been drawn to good music first. This, in the eyes of many, did not make me an audiophile as I placed gear as a secondary factor in my enjoyment. Good/great/excellent gear might enhance the music, but it doesn't make the music.

While I make no bones about the fact I'd love to own a better system, it is not and will never be a prerequisite for the enjoyment of the music I love or is dear to me.

Very true - if we really look at it - our systems do not reporduce the "live event" .... nothing can!!! All factors would have to be correct and exactly the same. What we really gravitate to consciously or unconsciously is what we believe sounds best to us and our musical taste.

I read an article that really made me think - even if we are trying to duplicate what the original studio master' was producing - for whom was he mastering it for (car audio, home audio, ect)? Our paradigm ceases to be when we get to the point where we just enjoy. Just something to think about.

I, like you - know that there are better systems out there, but like you've already stated - its not the prerequisite for musical or movie enjoyment. Wow....

[prerich]

Originally Posted by callas01

my dad was always into music, he would come home and listen until tv time, we my brother and I would buy and play music on his old Pioneer/JBL setup. We used to piss off the neighbors, I would blast Rage Against the Machine and Metallica out the house. Over the years I always had some sort of music system until I graduated college. I kinda forgot about it all until my in-laws bought me a HTiB setup, then after about 3 weeks I disconnected it cause it was so bad. A few weeks after that I bought my Sony speaker setup for HT. I kept comparing it to my dads B&Ws, so I found the Energys on sale, I remember that my dad used to install PSB and Energys, so I jumped on them.

The Energys did more then just improve my HT experience, it got me back into music, thats when I started buying blu-ray concerts and more cds, I bought the TT I have now. Whats funny is when JasonR bought the Monitor Audio RS6s, it made me want to hear them, so I went to listen to them and just loved the Dali's in the room with them, Rhett and John told me to listen to Dyns and Totems, so I went out to listen to everything... But I came back to the Dyns and Totems... and well.... I was back into hi-fi.

I used to play the trumpet and the drums, I can still play the drums, dont ask me to play a trumpet tho. My older brother was in Band in school until high school, and my little brother played the Piano and guitar. So we were always into music in some way on our own. I used to be my friends dedicated band roadie also, so I got to go to all the concerts, setup things, test the drums on stage, went to a recording session. Always enjoyed music.

Hey...I was the first to recommend an all Totem system (dreamcatcher) on this site
That was back in my pre-mod days.

But back to your experience - I can see the way your fathers tutoring (unknown to him) helped shape your listening preferences and even enhanced them. I even think age has an affect on our preferences and choices.

[Johnny Vinyl]

Originally Posted by prerich

Hey...I was the first to recommend an all Totem system (dreamcatcher) on this site
That was back in my pre-mod days.

But back to your experience - I can see the way your fathers tutoring (unknown to him) helped shape your listening preferences and even enhanced them. I even think age has an affect on our preferences and choices.

Absolutely it does and that will never change. I was once I huge metal fan and couldn't stand all of the avant-garde jazz shiite.That has now been completely reversed.

[Almadacr]

Well prerich you hit the nail on something , the source and acoustic music . Since i can remember my life always had music and instruments lying around . I have friends who are on bands with recorded albums , my sister she's a singer with recorded albums , and at the age of 7 i was buying heavy metal albums

I had one of those record players were you can stack several disc's at the time and once i reached about 3000 vinyl albums ( most of them gone or disappeared and a friend of mine still have several of them back in europe ) .

So , with so many music around it's natural that we would take instruments and would most of us be self taught like in my case and i had the chance to play on some great acoustic places but not the best places to play a electrical guitars in full distortion . I also knew some gypsy guys that played guitar ( Flamenco ) and it toke me some time till they showed me there technic but i still suck at finger picking .

Most of the times i try to explain that speakers are personal choices and they should stay true to the sound that musicians choose as far for there tone and i can't accept speakers embezzling the sound or because they are great when someone listens to Diana Krall .

Speakers should be good with whatever music we trow at them not only with some stereotypes songs that are always the same .

Sound and image expos are great but 90% of the time you listen the same music about 100 times .

BTW my favorite acoustic album is " Acoustica " from Scorpions ( i love the up-tempo in Dust in the Wind ) .

[prerich]

Originally Posted by Almadacr

Well prerich you hit the nail on something , the source and acoustic music . Since i can remember my life always had music and instruments lying around . I have friends who are on bands with recorded albums , my sister she's a singer with recorded albums , and at the age of 7 i was buying heavy metal albums

I had one of those record players were you can stack several disc's at the time and once i reached about 3000 vinyl albums ( most of them gone or disappeared and a friend of mine still have several of them back in europe ) .

So , with so many music around it's natural that we would take instruments and would most of us be self taught like in my case and i had the chance to play on some great acoustic places but not the best places to play a electrical guitars in full distortion . I also knew some gypsy guys that played guitar ( Flamenco ) and it toke me some time till they showed me there technic but i still suck at finger picking .

Most of the times i try to explain that speakers are personal choices and they should stay true to the sound that musicians choose as far for there tone and i can't accept speakers embezzling the sound or because they are great when someone listens to Diana Krall .

Speakers should be good with whatever music we trow at them not only with some stereotypes songs that are always the same .

Sound and image expos are great but 90% of the time you listen the same music about 100 times .

BTW my favorite acoustic album is " Acoustica " from Scorpions ( i love the up-tempo in Dust in the Wind ) .

Excellent points - I like expos that allow you to bring your own music. That brings up another question, do speaker designers voice their speakers prejudiced to their own musical taste? There are so many factors that can subliminally affect one's subjective view of sound.

I didn't like the mighty MBL speakers when I heard them at Axpona this year ...because they were playing Electronica...my prejudice got in the way of the speaker evaluation. If you don't enjoy the music - chances are that you will not enjoy the speaker. It is starting to occur to me that music and hi-fi may be one big paradox!!!!

[prerich]

Oh and this paradigm doesn't only exist for music. I remember when I was working in the business in Virginia...before DVD even came out - Laser Disc was king of high-end movie media. We used to use Terminator II for a HT demo, the begining scene where the robot steps on the skull and the battle ensues. Well on our well calibrated Atlantic Technology THX 450 system with 2 subs, Denon top of the line receiver, Pioneer Laser Disc player - when the robot stepped on the skull - it just went "crack" no real weight to the scene just like someone stepped on an aluminum can. At my home it was different...I was running Polk Audio SDS SRS 2.3's (they go down to 15 hz), Polk Audio S4's for center channel (butted the tweeters together and had the woofers out to the sides), Def Tech Powerfield 15 subwoofer, DBX Dynamic range expander, DBX Bass Sub Harmonic Synth, Yamaha 550 eq on the mains, DBX 2015 EQ on the Center, Fosgate Audionics Model 3A THX preamp - a whole mess of power amps....you get the drift!!!

Well when that foot came down, you heard the crackle - but you also heard a bass thump when it hit the ground, the robot seemed like it weighed a ton. I don't know if that was what the director intended - but it was what I liked. I also noticed a bass rumble in "True Lies" before he explodes the planted bomb in the opening scene after the dance. My paradigm was this...there was information transmitted that our properly setup system didn't communicate, but the reality is - if I didn't know what the mixer had in mind - I really don't know what it should sound like - we just get whats acceptable in the theater, and get what we like at home Something to think about ehh?

[callas01]

Originally Posted by prerich

Excellent points - I like expos that allow you to bring your own music. That brings up another question, do speaker designers voice their speakers prejudiced to their own musical taste? There are so many factors that can subliminally affect one's subjective view of sound.

I didn't like the mighty MBL speakers when I heard them at Axpona this year ...because they were playing Electronica...my prejudice got in the way of the speaker evaluation. If you don't enjoy the music - chances are that you will not enjoy the speaker. It is starting to occur to me that music and hi-fi may be one big paradox!!!!

but when you listen to those speakers with music you arent big on, do listen to the music, listen to how the speaker is performing, is the mid-range clean and detailed, are the highs shrill and annoying or smooth or dark, is the mid-bass punchy or dry, those things can tell you what the speaker should sound like with your music, and what you should expect. Then when you go to do a formal audition take your own music. Maybe even find what that song was you weren't familiar with and listen to it again on that setup to see if your perception of the speakers is still the same.

[prerich]

Originally Posted by callas01

but when you listen to those speakers with music you arent big on, do listen to the music, listen to how the speaker is performing, is the mid-range clean and detailed, are the highs shrill and annoying or smooth or dark, is the mid-bass punchy or dry, those things can tell you what the speaker should sound like with your music, and what you should expect. Then when you go to do a formal audition take your own music. Maybe even find what that song was you weren't familiar with and listen to it again on that setup to see if your perception of the speakers is still the same.

I couldn't get past the "thump, thump, thump" of the driving bass to recognize any of the rest of the music...because the track was mixed for a club or a car!!!! It was an unpleasant experience - I consentrated on taking pictures of this BEAUTIFUL system (although the sound was annoying). I wasn't the only one that felt that way. Several people turned around and walked out during that demo.

When certain "annoying" aspects of the original recording are present, and the speaker reproduces those annoyances accurately - you're not going to say the speaker sounds good!!!! I gave MBL the benifit of the doubt - saying that it was the choice of music that I was put off by, not the speakers themselves. If a recording is bad...its just bad. Sometimes what we listen to is not the fault of the speaker, but the fault of the media! But then...is it the fault of the media, or our personal perception of what media should sound like (I used to spin that type of stuff in clubs in my 20's - never missed a mix with electronica music - but now, I don't listen to it - my musical taste have changed with age.)

[prerich]

Originally Posted by callas01

but when you listen to those speakers with music you arent big on, do listen to the music, listen to how the speaker is performing, is the mid-range clean and detailed, are the highs shrill and annoying or smooth or dark, is the mid-bass punchy or dry, those things can tell you what the speaker should sound like with your music, and what you should expect.

And that's part of the issue Callas, now we have to go to what the original artist intended - but how do we know what the artist wanted in the first place ! We would need the exact studio and conditions to duplicate what the artist wanted. What if the artist sense of sound is not as adept as ours? I've heard some poorly recorded stuff make a lot of money...why, because it's mixed to the general likes of the target audiance.

I know people that can make a B3 scream, but those distortions would not make sense in other genres (other than Jazz or Gospel). On a high end system - a person may interpet that distortion or intentional coloration by the artist as a failure in the midrange, or think that the tweeters are overly bright (has anyone ever really listened ot a live horn before...! Some jazz notes can make your ears bleed - those of us who like it call it bite)!

I'd like to take a quote from Greg at Volti Audio from an interview with Dagogo:
"LB: You are well known in the DIY community for modifying Klipschorns. What is it in general that attracts you to horns, and what specifically is it about Khorns?

GR: My introduction to horns at an early age stuck with me. The guys at New England Music Company didn’t just sell me speakers, they taught me why Klipsch speakers were as good as they were. These were my first technical lessons, about modulation distortion, efficiency, dynamics, etc. Most of these lessons came directly from the Klipsch papers “Dope From Hope.” I became a Klipschophile in my teens, and my opinions about which speakers were the best were made during a formative period of my life, so what reason would there be to ever regress to other topologies? LOL. And with all my years sitting behind a sound board and in front of big horn speakers, and having owned Klipsch Khorns for the last 25 years, it has only been recently that I’ve come to realize the merits of other speaker topologies.

Still, big horns are what make me smile. I can listen to the highest of high end and think they are very nice sounding, but when I get home and put Boz on the Khorns, the music just makes me smile"

That's a huge testament to a person's backround shaping their taste in sound. There's another article on the Ultra High End forum called "The Sound of one hand clapping" - it's intense and begs the same questions I'm asking