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[Villiam Hayes]

Originally Posted by tob

How do you feel as a united fan villiam towards roy keane now

I will always hold him in high regards as he was a super player for us and I just loved his desire to win and his drive on the pitch.
All Utd fans will always remember Turin in the Champions league semis but there were so many games were he was just unbelievable but as I stated I don't care much for what comes out if his mouth because I think he is full of it at times.

[tob]

Originally Posted by Villiam Hayes

I will always hold him in high regards as he was a super player for us and I just loved his desire to win and his drive on the pitch.
All Utd fans will always remember Turin in the Champions league semis but there were so many games were he was just unbelievable but as I stated I don't care much for what comes out if his mouth because I think he is full of it at times.

That match against juventus he ran the show that night but agree don't care what he says

[pro-bassoonist]

Originally Posted by Almadacr

It can be given if the player shows intent to injure other player not the case since NANI is trying to play the ball the worst case scenario the yellow card should be given and the player warned.

I will address only this point: Nothing could be further from the truth, as there isn't a rule dictating that a red card must be given only when the serious play/foul is intentional.

Intent isn't and never has been the determining factor as to whether one should receive a red card. Dangerous/serious foul play is sanctioned with a red card. Period. Nani's play was a serious foul play.

Official FIFA rule:

http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/foot...ame_2012_e.pdf

A player, substitute or substituted player is sent off if he commits any of the
following seven offences:

• serious foul play
• violent conduct
• spitting at an opponent or any other person
• denying the opposing team a goal or an obvious goalscoring opportunity
by deliberately handling the ball (this does not apply to a goalkeeper within
his own penalty area)
• denying an obvious goalscoring opportunity to an opponent moving
towards the player’s goal by an offence punishable by a free kick or a
penalty kick
• using offensive, insulting or abusive language and/or gestures
• receiving a second caution in the same match

A player, substitute or substituted player who has been sent off must leave the vicinity of the field of play and the technical area.

Yellow card is given for "cautionable offences":

A player is cautioned and shown the yellow card if he commits any of the
following seven offences:

• unsporting behaviour
• dissent by word or action
• persistent infringement of the Laws of the Game
• delaying the restart of play
• failure to respect the required distance when play is restarted with a corner
kick, free kick or throw-in
• entering or re-entering the field of play without the referee’s permission
• deliberately leaving the field of play without the referee’s permission

A substitute or substituted player is cautioned if he commits any of the
following three offences:
• unsporting behaviour
• dissent by word or action
• delaying the restart of play

The rules of the game are indeed clear and simple.

Pro-B

[Villiam Hayes]

Yes but is it SERIOUS foul play when it is unintentional?
That is when I believe it becomes a different matter,certainly it's not just black and white.

[pro-bassoonist]

Originally Posted by Villiam Hayes

Yes but is it SERIOUS foul play when it is unintentional?

Studs in the chest is a serious foul, any way you look at it, Villiam.

(Look, I definitely agree with your earliest observation that Nani probably wasn't trying to hurt Arbeloa, but the rules of the game are very clear).

On a side note, I was reading the European press today, and even Michael Owen had this to say:

"Not in a million years would we see a Red Card for that in The Premier League but on the continent it's a definite Red," Michael Owen, the former Man United and Madrid forward, wrote on Twitter. "Can't really blame the Ref for it as he is obliged to play to the rules but it's a hard one to take bearing in mind there was no intent."

Pro-B

[Villiam Hayes]

If my memory serves me correctly didn't Suarez stamp on someone's chest last year and go unpunished.
I am not sure if the referee claimed he saw it but everyone else did and that was intentional I am sure.

[pro-bassoonist]

Originally Posted by Villiam Hayes

If my memory serves me correctly didn't Suarez stamp on someone's chest last year and go unpunished.
I am not sure if the referee claimed he saw it but everyone else did and that was intentional I am sure.

Was this an EPL game? If he did something like this, he should be sanctioned right on the spot. Red Card. And if the ref saw it but did not sanction it, then he should be penalized later on.

The only pretext to not give a red car for a situation like the one you described above is for the ref to claim that he did not see it.

[Villiam Hayes]

Originally Posted by pro-bassoonist

Was this an EPL game? If he did something like this, he should be sanctioned right on the spot. Red Card. And if the ref saw it but did not sanction it, then he should be penalized later on.

The only pretext to not give a red car for a situation like the one you described above is for the ref to claim that he did not see it.

It was an EPL game but like I said I can't remember 100% but I am pretty sure he went unpunished,even afterwards with the TV footage.

[pro-bassoonist]

Originally Posted by Villiam Hayes

It was an EPL game but like I said I can't remember 100% but I am pretty sure he went unpunished,even afterwards with the TV footage.

Hopefully someone sent a negative report after the game then. This is why each game has a "delegate", a person that actually evaluates the ref in a report which is sent to the official body that determines what games they (the refs) do.

Suarez is not exactly a clean player.

[quirkmanly]

Originally Posted by Villiam Hayes

Yes but is it SERIOUS foul play when it is unintentional?
That is when I believe it becomes a different matter,certainly it's not just black and white.

Take a look at FIFA's full break-down of the terms and definitions used when applying the law of the game to fouls.

Dangerous play is defined as:

"any action that, while trying to play the ball, threatens injury to someone (including the player himself)"

And the disciplinary sanctions for dangerous play (in this instance):

"if the action is made with obvious risk of injury the referee should caution the opponent"

Serious foul play is defined as:

"use of excessive force or brutality against an opponent when challenging for the ball when it is in play"

"Using excessive force means that the player has far exceeded the use of force and is in danger of injuring his opponent"

"Any player who lunges at an opponent in challenging for the ball from the front, from the side or from behind using one or both legs, with excessive force and endangering the safety of an opponent is guilty of serious foul play"

So it becomes a question of interpretation and intent, but it certainly isn't as simple as pick the closest item from either the yellow card or the red card list. There are shades of grey.

I really have no love for Man Utd, and would go as far as to say I am biased against them, but Nani clearly had his eyes on the ball and, if it hadn't been for the unfortunate timing of Arbeola's arrival, Nani would have cushioned the ball and brought it down in manner that he does very frequently. He quite obviously watches the flight of the ball and only turns his head as it nears his foot.

[ManUtd]

Originally Posted by quirkmanly

Take a look at FIFA's full break-down of the terms and definitions used when applying the law of the game to fouls.

Dangerous play is defined as:

And the disciplinary sanctions for dangerous play (in this instance):

Serious foul play is defined as:

So it becomes a question of interpretation and intent, but it certainly isn't as simple as pick the closest item from either the yellow card or the red card list. There are shades of grey.

I really have no love for Man Utd, and would go as far as to say I am biased against them, but Nani clearly had his eyes on the ball and, if it hadn't been for the unfortunate timing of Arbeola's arrival, Nani would have cushioned the ball and brought it down in manner that he does very frequently. He quite obviously watches the flight of the ball and only turns his head as it nears his foot.

Hey quirk it's been a long time buddy. How have you been?

What do you think about these?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SR5HP9glaE0

[Almadacr]

Originally Posted by pro-bassoonist

I will address only this point: Nothing could be further from the truth, as there isn't a rule dictating that a red card must be given only when the serious play/foul is intentional.

Intent isn't and never has been the determining factor as to whether one should receive a red card. Dangerous/serious foul play is sanctioned with a red card. Period. Nani's play was a serious foul play.

Official FIFA rule:

http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/foot...ame_2012_e.pdf




Yellow card is given for "cautionable offences":



The rules of the game are indeed clear and simple.

Pro-B

I know the game rules but again where in this situation NANI action apply's ! You say Foul play .

Now read this and see what it's recommended in fouls and what it's said regarding fauls . 2 words define the fauls Careless and Reckless and you are confusing this .

http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/afde...t_en_47379.pdf

But i will post just the 2 most important parts .

. Careless - Means that the player has shown a lack of attention or consideration when making his challenge he acted without precaution - NO further disciplinary sanction is needed if the faul is judged careless .

. Reckless - Means that the player has acted with complete disregard of the danger to , or consequences for his opponent - A player who plays in a reckless manner shall be cautioned

I think you are confusing this 2 things and taking the violent side off it , the faul it's not pretty but the player is trying to play the ball not to injure another player .

Clearly you are anti-Manchester but try to see the reasonable side of it and the referring on that part of the game was not top notch .

[Almadacr]

Originally Posted by ManUtd

Hey quirk it's been a long time buddy. How have you been?

What do you think about these?



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SR5HP9glaE0

On the first Aberloa got a yellow card and well showed since he hit's the knee and with no chance to reach that ball , on the second it's never called anything since it's the goalie area and normally they are untouchable when disputing the ball in the air not if makes a player trip .

[Villiam Hayes]

It's ok putting all these rules out but something as 'simple' as the offside rule and whether or not a player is active is a grey area also we see grappling going on non-stop in the penalty area without any action but anywhere else on the pitch would certainly be deemed a foul.

[pro-bassoonist]

Originally Posted by Almadacr

I know the game rules ...

I am sorry. It does not appear so. The rules of the game are simple. Which is why I shall exit this discussion with one last video, ironically with Nani right in the middle of it

Eboue Red card - YouTube

Pro-B

[Almadacr]

Originally Posted by pro-bassoonist

I am sorry. It does not appear so. The rules of the game are simple. Which is why I shall exit this discussion with one last video, ironically with Nani right in the middle of it

Eboue Red card - YouTube

Pro-B

I'm sorry but you are so clueless in what you are saying or trying to portrait , again you should stay away from stadiums and stop speaking about it since you advocate violence by showing only MU videos with questionable decisions . If you don't know how to interpret what it's written about the law #12 that was given to you not once but twice . I don't call that a football fan but just a simple fanatic .

[gvortex7]

Holy crap, Bayern is destroying Hamburger 9-1 and there is still about 10 minutes to go. How often do we see scores like this in national league play? Wow.