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Old 12-13-2014, 11:07 AM   #2921
Pyoko Pyoko is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff D View Post
Sure, but due to the chemical makeup of film it's the yellow layer which absorbs the most light because it's on top, so it's what the light hits first (and then filters through to the remaining layers underneath) and generally exposes more of them tiny grainz than in the other layers. The yellow layer reads as blue when printed, therefore that colour can sometimes hold a lil' bit more grain than the rest of the image, i.e. it usually gets picked up in swathes of blue sky, even on large format shows where grain is less pronounced throughout the rest of the presentation: http://www.caps-a-holic.com/hd_vergl...ess=#vergleich
This is true, the blue channel often has the most prominent grain. But check out The African Queen, which was shot in Technicolor so each channel is from a separate piece of film. Also note how much the saturation of the grain disappears on the DE disc thanks to the inferior compression (let's not even talk about the UK one.) It makes sense to me that the only way for a color film to have completely monochromatic grain would be if each layer had the exact same variance between light/dark in the grain structure, which seems a statistical impossibility.

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I've seen grain tinged with flecks of yellow and blue, but never with RGB noise like with the 4K remaster of TGTBATU. It still looks like grain in motion so I'm not unduly bovvered, it definitely looks a bit weird in the caps though. As I said before, it's the ****ed up gamma which annoys me the most. But the level of detail in the 4K remaster smokes everything else that's gone before, and the with the addition of the tweaked mono mix I can tolerate the shortcomings in the PQ.
Yeah, I wasn't commenting on TGTBTU at all, I only ordered mine during Black Friday and haven't been able to look at it yet. I agree it looks digitally pumped, if correct that shot of Tuco posted by Bates is messed up with a clear band of ugly greenish color that fades into Instagram-purple blacks. OUTIA also seems to suffer from a lot of clearly delineated greenish bands in the darker shades.

Last edited by Pyoko; 12-13-2014 at 11:18 AM.
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Old 12-13-2014, 03:49 PM   #2922
Geoff D Geoff D is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyoko View Post
This is true, the blue channel often has the most prominent grain. But check out The African Queen, which was shot in Technicolor so each channel is from a separate piece of film. Also note how much the saturation of the grain disappears on the DE disc thanks to the inferior compression (let's not even talk about the UK one.) It makes sense to me that the only way for a color film to have completely monochromatic grain would be if each layer had the exact same variance between light/dark in the grain structure, which seems a statistical impossibility.
When you're physically combining three properly-exposed negatives it's no wonder that grain would be more pronounced, although you've got to bear in mind that three-strip used black-and-white negatives for each colour channel, it's in the printing process where the colour is imbibed onto the matrices so the grain is in fact 'mono' originally.

I can see where you're coming from regarding the layers in a single-strand colour negative each having their own grain properties, but historically the grain is so fine that it doesn't appear to carry over its own colour characteristics; this is why dupes and opticals often have that yellowy-blue tinge to the grain because it's become coarser and thus easier to see. (This was also true of the faster shooting stocks that were introduced in the '70s and '80s, before they cracked the problem of reducing the size of the grain.)

The only thing that stands out re: TGTBATU is that is was shot in 2-perf Techniscope, which is using literally half of the standard 4-perf 35mm frame, which would have the effect of magnifying the grain and thus its latent colour components. That said, A Fistful of Dollars was shot the same way and its grain looks absolutely perfect in the restored Italian Blu-ray, so I can only surmise that the RGB noise in the restored TGTBATU is some sort of by-product of the aggressive colour timing that the film has received.

Quote:
Yeah, I wasn't commenting on TGTBTU at all, I only ordered mine during Black Friday and haven't been able to look at it yet. I agree it looks digitally pumped, if correct that shot of Tuco posted by Bates is messed up with a clear band of ugly greenish color that fades into Instagram-purple blacks. OUTIA also seems to suffer from a lot of clearly delineated greenish bands in the darker shades.
Agreed, there's some very weird stuff going on with the gamma in these recent Leone restorations out of Cineteca di Bologna.
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Old Today, 04:59 AM   #2923
tyee tyee is offline
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So when the next remaster comes out, maybe in a few years or more, what's everyone going to say -

1. Oh, they found their mistake and now it looks good
2. Oh, they only removed the yellow because the fans were complaining

Or ........

This assumes the next remaster and all others that follow look like real world colors, not these colors. Can't wait to find out! I need an "interstellar" trip to find out!
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