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Old 06-11-2014, 07:53 AM   #2561
Maxwell Everett Maxwell Everett is online now
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I'm looking for the full image pictures that have half SD/half remastered.
I'm looking specifically for Images because the person I want to show them to cannot view video on their device.
Look through TrekCore's facebook timeline photos here.
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Old 06-11-2014, 11:36 AM   #2562
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Look through TrekCore's facebook timeline photos here.
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Old 08-23-2014, 07:38 PM   #2563
benji888578 benji888578 is offline
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Anyone know specifically what the sound problems were with the first copies of season 1? I know the set with corrected discs has a yellow UPC, but, what if you buy it open box or used, how can you know you have the corrected discs? (And not someone's old bad discs). Were the channels simply in the wrong speakers, or was it just the voice was not only coming out of center channel, but others as well? I tried a search on youtube, but, surprisingly, only came up with a vid. about how to order the corrected discs for those that bought the original sets with the issue, nothing on the issue itself.
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Old 08-23-2014, 07:44 PM   #2564
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Originally Posted by benji888578 View Post
Anyone know specifically what the sound problems were with the first copies of season 1? I know the set with corrected discs has a yellow UPC, but, what if you buy it open box or used, how can you know you have the corrected discs? (And not someone's old bad discs). Were the channels simply in the wrong speakers, or was it just the voice was not only coming out of center channel, but others as well? I tried a search on youtube, but, surprisingly, only came up with a vid. about how to order the corrected discs for those that bought the original sets with the issue, nothing on the issue itself.

The corrected disc has a Starfleet logo on the left side of where is says Disc One, Three and so on.
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Old 08-23-2014, 08:33 PM   #2565
benji888578 benji888578 is offline
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Originally Posted by davidthenikonuser View Post
The corrected disc has a Starfleet logo on the left side of where is says Disc One, Three and so on.
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Originally Posted by Lava_Lander View Post
'Old' disc on the left, 'new' disc on the right:
ok, thanks, they all have the logo, (as do my season 4 set), so they must have kept this design for all future disc pressings.
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Old 08-23-2014, 08:36 PM   #2566
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Originally Posted by benji888578 View Post
ok, thanks, they all have the logo, (as do my season 4 set), so they must have kept this design for all future disc pressings.
They did and added a starfleet logo to the spine that they then kept for all future sets.
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Old 08-24-2014, 12:36 AM   #2567
Maxwell Everett Maxwell Everett is online now
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Originally Posted by benji888578 View Post
Anyone know specifically what the sound problems were with the first copies of season 1? I know the set with corrected discs has a yellow UPC, but, what if you buy it open box or used, how can you know you have the corrected discs? (And not someone's old bad discs). Were the channels simply in the wrong speakers, or was it just the voice was not only coming out of center channel, but others as well? I tried a search on youtube, but, surprisingly, only came up with a vid. about how to order the corrected discs for those that bought the original sets with the issue, nothing on the issue itself.
Basically, the center dialogue channel was mistakenly mapped onto either the front right channel (in the case of the pilot) or both the left and the right channel (the other six episodes) in the main 7.1 DTS-HD MA track. This also caused some echoing during mixdown to 2.0 stereo at certain points in the episodes. The following episodes were affected:

"Encounter at Farpoint"
"Hide and Q"
"Haven"
"The Big Goodbye"
"Datalore"
"11001001"
"Too Short a Season"

It should be noted that the fixed version of "Encounter at Farpoint" still has a very brief slip-up where the problem comes back. It occurs just before Riker's first beam up to the Enterprise from Farpoint station following his conversation with La Forge. Because of this, you will always want to watch the version on The Next Level Blu-ray (if you have it) because it is the only version of the pilot with zero sound problems. It also had the original 2.0 audio in DTS, an option that was dropped for the season sets.
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Old 08-24-2014, 04:50 AM   #2568
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Originally Posted by Maxwell Everett View Post
...It should be noted that the fixed version of "Encounter at Farpoint" still has a very brief slip-up where the problem comes back. It occurs just before Riker's first beam up to the Enterprise from Farpoint station following his conversation with La Forge. Because of this, you will always want to watch the version on The Next Level Blu-ray (if you have it) because it is the only version of the pilot with zero sound problems. It also had the original 2.0 audio in DTS, an option that was dropped for the season sets.
I heard this, I think this is what prompted me to ask, but otherwise it's fine. I don't have The Next Level, but, eventually going to get all the seasons, so won't be getting it.
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Old 08-24-2014, 05:26 AM   #2569
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FYI: In one of the special features they talk about the sound and how it was originally broadcast in stereo, however, it was not only stereo, but Dolby Surround encoded stereo. (I'm pretty sure the Dolby surround logo was in the original end credits each episode.). I know because I had a VHS HIFI VCR that had MTS stereo reception and I recorded it, played it through my Yamaha surround receiver (which decoded the dolby surround signal). Mind you, this was the first implementation of home theater, so it was basically Left front, Right front and one rear surround channel (it used two rear speakers, but was only one channel with Dolby surround, the receiver had several virtual surround modes that sometimes used separate left & right in the back in music modes). I did have a sub in my set-up, but this was not a separate LFE channel like we have today.

This was one of the first TV shows to air in Stereo, and maybe the first with Dolby Surround (if I recall correctly). The series was nominated for various awards each season, won several in different sound categories, one reason I mention this.

I do appreciate the restored/enhanced lossless digital 7.1 tracks, fitting for the production value of this series (especially after season 2). (Each episode was over $1 million dollar production in the late 80s.)
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Old 08-24-2014, 07:03 AM   #2570
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Stereo broadcasting began in 1984. There were a few shows encoded with Dolby Surround before TNG. The first 3 seasons of TNG were encoded as "stereo surround" but they didn't use Dolby encoding until the fourth season, which was the first to feature the Dolby Surround logo. The center channel (in Pro Logic systems) wasn't anchored very well until they did: dialogue had a tendency to echo in all the channels.
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Old 08-25-2014, 06:01 AM   #2571
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I believe that in some cases the L and R channels of the 2.0 mix down, rather than the center channel, were mapped to the LF and RF channels.

I consider this audio mistake on Season 1 to be a blessing in disguise because it allowed CBS Digital to correct missing elements in a few visual effects sequences. I have to wonder throughout the seasons how many cases of missing footage or missing elements would have been corrected if the release schedule wasn't quite so rushed through Season 5. (TNG Blu-ray seasons were being released faster than Enterprise Blu-ray seasons.) Perhaps it is just coincidence, but with the longer gap between 5 and 6, 6 seems to not be missing anything.

I would have preferred that the 2.0 audio track be the original broadcast stereo surround mix rather than a mixdown from the from the new 7.1 audio mix. There's at least one case in the seasons released so far ("Night Terrors" if I remember correctly) where an original audio element was not included in the 7.1 mix, so it is also missing in the 2.0 English Audio track. Some of the foreign language tracks do use the original audio mix.
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Old 08-26-2014, 12:11 AM   #2572
benji888578 benji888578 is offline
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Originally Posted by PeterTHX View Post
Stereo broadcasting began in 1984. There were a few shows encoded with Dolby Surround before TNG. The first 3 seasons of TNG were encoded as "stereo surround" but they didn't use Dolby encoding until the fourth season, which was the first to feature the Dolby Surround logo. The center channel (in Pro Logic systems) wasn't anchored very well until they did: dialogue had a tendency to echo in all the channels.
Yes, that's right, it was "stereo surround", I did not have a Pro Logic system, but, I do recall that about the dialogue. I thought it was the broadcasting/reception, or, the fact I used the Dolby Surround setting on my receiver for non-dolby surround, but, perhaps it was the encoding itself that was the problem.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KC-Technerd View Post
I believe that in some cases the L and R channels of the 2.0 mix down, rather than the center channel, were mapped to the LF and RF channels.

I consider this audio mistake on Season 1 to be a blessing in disguise because it allowed CBS Digital to correct missing elements in a few visual effects sequences. I have to wonder throughout the seasons how many cases of missing footage or missing elements would have been corrected if the release schedule wasn't quite so rushed through Season 5. (TNG Blu-ray seasons were being released faster than Enterprise Blu-ray seasons.) Perhaps it is just coincidence, but with the longer gap between 5 and 6, 6 seems to not be missing anything.

I would have preferred that the 2.0 audio track be the original broadcast stereo surround mix rather than a mixdown from the from the new 7.1 audio mix. There's at least one case in the seasons released so far ("Night Terrors" if I remember correctly) where an original audio element was not included in the 7.1 mix, so it is also missing in the 2.0 English Audio track. Some of the foreign language tracks do use the original audio mix.
If I'm not mistaken, they are not working on both projects at the same time, but, same group working on Enterprise and TNG separately, perhaps on a tentative schedule (Season 6 was due out at the beginning of June when first announced, then the date was changed).

In the special feature "ENERGIZED: Taking The Next Generation to the Next Level" they claim to be remastering from the original audio recordings for the 7.1 audio remix similarly to how they are going back to the original film. I am guessing the foreign language tracks are from this (mixed down), with the foreign language diaglogue tracks substituted for the english dialogue, rather than from previous masters used for DVDs (or broadcast). The English 2.0 track is supposed to be from the original broadcast master. I have season 4, I'll have to play Night Terrors and see what you are referring to, and get back.
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Old 09-04-2014, 03:52 AM   #2573
KC-Technerd KC-Technerd is offline
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Originally Posted by benji888578 View Post
If I'm not mistaken, they are not working on both projects at the same time, but, same group working on Enterprise and TNG separately, perhaps on a tentative schedule (Season 6 was due out at the beginning of June when first announced, then the date was changed).
I think you may have misunderstood my point. I wasn't trying to imply that Enterprise and TNG were being worked on by the same group. The Blu-ray discs of Enterprise contain episodes that were transferred from already existing HD masters, so very little work was required. TNG required (is requiring) extensive work to rebuild the dailies from the original film and sound elements, and then to re-edit those dailies into the final episodes (including recompositing and recreating visual effects). TNG seasons were being released more frequently in 2013 (Apr 30, Jul 30, & Nov 19) than Enterprise seasons (Mar 26, & Aug 20), so less time was being allotted for the much larger job. The time between seasons for the entire TNG series Blu-rays are 19, 21, 13, 16, 31 & 23 weeks. Time between seasons for Enterprise Blu-rays are 21, 20 & 16 weeks.

Some of this may be attributed to the outsourcing of TNG Seasons 2 and 4. However I believe that the search for film elements all fell to Sarah Paul, and I suspect that she was also responsible for locating all the audio elements. 13 weeks between Seasons 3 and 4 implies that not much time was allotted to locate the Season 4 elements.

Last edited by KC-Technerd; 09-04-2014 at 04:08 AM.
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Old 09-04-2014, 05:04 AM   #2574
KC-Technerd KC-Technerd is offline
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Originally Posted by benji888578 View Post
In the special feature "ENERGIZED: Taking The Next Generation to the Next Level" they claim to be remastering from the original audio recordings for the 7.1 audio remix similarly to how they are going back to the original film. I am guessing the foreign language tracks are from this (mixed down), with the foreign language diaglogue tracks substituted for the english dialogue, rather than from previous masters used for DVDs (or broadcast). The English 2.0 track is supposed to be from the original broadcast master. I have season 4, I'll have to play Night Terrors and see what you are referring to, and get back.
Yes, I'm very glad that they remastered the 7.1 from the original elements, rather than just trying to up-convert from the previous stereo surround. I simply would have preferred that the English Stereo 2.0 track have been the original 2.0 surround mix rather than a mix-down of the new 7.1.

On Night Terrors from 19:32 to 20:05 note that Riker twice looks back toward the camera. You can hear Riker's footsteps and the music. On the foreign language tracks only, there are creaks to which Riker is reacting that are not present on either of the English language tracks. Apparently this subtle audio element was missed in the 7.1 master, which was then down mixed to create the English Stereo 2.0. This suggests that the foreign language tracks are from the original broadcast master, and the English Stereo 2.0 is not. I believe the DVD audio track for Night Terrors includes the creaks.

Last edited by KC-Technerd; 09-05-2014 at 05:30 AM.
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Old 09-04-2014, 05:21 AM   #2575
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Originally Posted by PeterTHX View Post
Stereo broadcasting began in 1984. There were a few shows encoded with Dolby Surround before TNG. The first 3 seasons of TNG were encoded as "stereo surround" but they didn't use Dolby encoding until the fourth season, which was the first to feature the Dolby Surround logo. The center channel (in Pro Logic systems) wasn't anchored very well until they did: dialogue had a tendency to echo in all the channels.
Quote:
Originally Posted by benji888578 View Post
Yes, that's right, it was "stereo surround", I did not have a Pro Logic system, but, I do recall that about the dialogue. I thought it was the broadcasting/reception, or, the fact I used the Dolby Surround setting on my receiver for non-dolby surround, but, perhaps it was the encoding itself that was the problem.
The local broadcaster of TNG in my area was using an automatically engaged stereo synthesizer during the late 1980s. It seemed to do nothing more than shift the phase between the left and right channels when it sensed that the left and right channels didn't have a significant difference between them (meaning apparently monaural sound). It completely drove me crazy when using my Shure HTS-5000 surround sound decoder. As long as there was significant stereo content the dialog would be correctly anchored front center. I didn't have a pro-logic decoder at the time, and probably not too many did as they were first available in 1987. However when a stereo program was primarily dialog the broadcaster's stereo synthesizer would kick in (as the audio was apparently monaural), and dialog would be coming from every direction with an echo.
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Old 09-13-2014, 07:49 PM   #2576
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Originally Posted by KC-Technerd View Post
Yes, I'm very glad that they remastered the 7.1 from the original elements, rather than just trying to up-convert from the previous stereo surround. I simply would have preferred that the English Stereo 2.0 track have been the original 2.0 surround mix rather than a mix-down of the new 7.1.

On Night Terrors from 19:32 to 20:05 note that Riker twice looks back toward the camera. You can hear Riker's footsteps and the music. On the foreign language tracks only, there are creaks to which Riker is reacting that are not present on either of the English language tracks. Apparently this subtle audio element was missed in the 7.1 master, which was then down mixed to create the English Stereo 2.0. This suggests that the foreign language tracks are from the original broadcast master, and the English Stereo 2.0 is not. I believe the DVD audio track for Night Terrors includes the creaks.
I did hear something with the headphones, very soft, not the same sound, but, just because the foreign audio tracks has this audio element, does not necessarily mean the English 2.0 audio track is a mix down from the 7.1 track. It's supposed to be from the original broadcast master. The foreign audio is Monophonic, and I noticed the sound effects vary in how they sound for each language, not sure why that is.

You may have found an error that was unintentional, perhaps from the english audio masters, I have also noticed sometimes that the communicator or tricorder sounds seem to be missing, but, if I turn it up louder, they are there, but kind of soft, (7.1), I'll have to check the other audio tracks next time I notice this.
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Old 09-28-2014, 05:05 AM   #2577
benji888578 benji888578 is offline
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Originally Posted by KC-Technerd View Post
On Night Terrors from 19:32 to 20:05 note that Riker twice looks back toward the camera. You can hear Riker's footsteps and the music. On the foreign language tracks only, there are creaks to which Riker is reacting that are not present on either of the English language tracks. Apparently this subtle audio element was missed in the 7.1 master, which was then down mixed to create the English Stereo 2.0. This suggests that the foreign language tracks are from the original broadcast master, and the English Stereo 2.0 is not. I believe the DVD audio track for Night Terrors includes the creaks.
I was watching this episode again, I think you caught an error, not sure if it was newly made or if they went by some master that had this error, whether that be the original broadcast master or DVD master. I think this would have been caught if season 4 had been done by CBS instead of outsourced.
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