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Old 07-12-2015, 07:38 AM   #381
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Originally Posted by hdgfs View Post
It's actually a BD-25, the cover is incorrect.
That's too bad, but thanks for the info.
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Old 08-10-2015, 04:22 PM   #382
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Just watched the Studio Canal Blu-Ray of the Driver.

Movie: Great. The car chases are extremely well done. The plot and the characters are bare-bones, and so is the dialog, but it serves the story pretty well. Ryan O'Neal and Bruce Dern are excellent in their respective role, with Dern bringing some much needed humor to the film (some of his lines have their cheese maxed out). Isabelle Adjani was pretty, her acting without fault, but her part didn't really have any importance in the movie.

Blu-Ray: The PQ is pretty solid, with deep blacks, strong colors and faithful grain. There is a slight problem of contrast fluctuation during certain interior scenes, like others have noted. There's no sign of DNR or edge enhencement, but the movie has been digitally color-corrected and it is my opinion that the new color palette isn't too faithful to the original.
If you've had the chance to compare the theatrical cut of Michael Mann's Thief to his director's cut, you'll understand what I mean when I say that the color shift in the Driver looks pretty similar. The whole movie has been "covered" by a teal filter that's most noticeable in the parking garage scene when O'Neal destroys the yellow car. In fact, I'd even go as far as to say that some scenes on this Blu-Ray wouldn't appear out of place — color-wise — in a Transformer movie. That being said, this teal filter is not too noticeable during daylight scenes or during some of the darkest night scenes. It appears to be pushed to extremes whenever there's a brightly lit night/interior scene (such as the parking garage or the tunnel). A quick comparison with the original trailer or the DVD will reveal this.

And before you tell me that comparing with the DVD is a bad idea because the DVD might not be faithful either, ask yourself this: have you ever seen this type of over-saturated cinematography on a 1970's film (on actual film)? Also, was the film stock of that period even capable of capturing such bold colors in those conditions? I don't think so. In fact, even if you look at 1980's films, when neon and bolder colors became more prevalent in American cinema, you'll notice that they never look that bold and saturated. Such a look can only be achieved with today's digital techniques of color correction and it is my firm belief that this Blu-Ray (along with the identical TT release) are not faithful to the director of photography's original work.

Last edited by takeshi2010; 08-10-2015 at 04:39 PM.
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Old 08-10-2015, 07:58 PM   #383
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I am a big admirer of Isabelle Adjani and have seen this film multiple times theatrically. So, I would like to leave a few comments.

1. Fox's new remaster is outstanding. Sadly, it is one of only a few such recent solid jobs from the studio.

2. The film isn't covered by a "teal filter". If you are seeing "teal", then perhaps you need to calibrate your set. If you have already done so, then perhaps you should recheck your settings.

3. The color scheme of the film does have all gray/blueish nuances seen on the new remaster. The entire neon-esque -- or what I assume you think is "teal" -- is also present on the first uncut European DVD release, which I have. The only difference on the remaster is that you have better/expanded wonderful color tonalities.



4. Good thing you brought up Mr. Mann's Thief because this film is a prime example that the neon-esque look that is present in it isn't some new recent anomaly. This is something that I have repeatedly mentioned, but people love to insist that the "Theatrical cut" on Arrow's disc is what the film should look like. Nothing could be further from the truth -- that transfer is very poor, has a completely inaccurate color scheme (and one should be able to tell without even looking at the new 4K restoration as color tonalities are blown up all over the place and the magenta is overwhelming), and without a shadow of a doubt isn't how the film looked in theaters.

5. Finally, you ask "when neon and bolder colors became more prevalent in American cinema?", and in the past I've actually given The Driver as an example because it was shot that way (as was Thief). But since you mention that such "look" can be achieved only with today's digital tools, I would like to post a few photos below that were forwarded to me from another discussion for you to consider.* (Thanks M.).

When something is digitally "tealed", it is quite easy to tell because balance is disrupted and various tonalities are lost (you can look for the nuances in blacks/grays/whites).

Enjoy the Canal disc. Unlike the U.S. disc, it has the uncut European version of The Driver and the technical presentation is outstanding.

*






Pro-B

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Old 08-10-2015, 08:49 PM   #384
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pro-bassoonist View Post
I am a big admirer of Isabelle Adjani and have seen this film multiple times theatrically. So, I would like to leave a few comments.

1. Fox's new remaster is outstanding. Sadly, it is one of only a few such recent solid jobs from the studio.

2. The film isn't covered by a "teal filter". If you are seeing "teal", then perhaps you need to calibrate your set. If you have already done so, then perhaps you should recheck your settings.

3. The color scheme of the film does have all gray/blueish nuances seen on the new remaster. The entire neon-esque -- or what I assume you think is "teal" -- is also present on the first uncut European DVD release, which I have. The only difference on the remaster is that you have better/expanded wonderful color tonalities.



4. Good thing you brought up Mr. Mann's Thief because this film is a prime example that the neon-esque look that is present in it isn't some new recent anomaly. This is something that I have repeatedly mentioned, but people love to insist that the "Theatrical cut" on Arrow's disc is what the film should look like. Nothing could be further from the truth -- that transfer is very poor, has a completely inaccurate color scheme (and one should be able to tell without even looking at the new 4K restoration as color tonalities are blown up all over the place and the magenta is overwhelming), and without a shadow of a doubt isn't how the film looked in theaters.

5. Finally, you ask "when neon and bolder colors became more prevalent in American cinema?", and in the past I've actually given The Driver as an example because it was shot that way (as was Thief). But since you mention that such "look" can be achieved only with today's digital tools, I would like to post a few photos below that were forwarded to me from another discussion for you to consider.* (Thanks M.).

When something is digitally "tealed", it is quite easy to tell because balance is disrupted and various tonalities are lost (you can look for the nuances in blacks/grays/whites).

Enjoy the Canal disc. Unlike the U.S. disc, it has the uncut European version of The Driver and the technical presentation is outstanding.

[Show spoiler]*






Pro-B
Well, alas, the UK version is out for me (Region B), what is the other DVD-size looking one? Is that the Fox version you mentioned? It didn't come up searching UK BDs, what country is it? Eh, probably be another "B".

EDIT : All countries didn't bring it up either - and every version I found ('cept the OOP TT) were "B".
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Old 08-10-2015, 09:02 PM   #385
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Early Memphis View Post
Well, alas, the UK version is out for me (Region B), what is the other DVD-size looking one? Is that the Fox version you mentioned? It didn't come up searching UK BDs, what country is it? Eh, probably be another "B".

EDIT : All countries didn't bring it up either - and every version I found ('cept the OOP TT) were "B".
The Japanese version would be Region A.

http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/The-Dr...lu-ray/131603/
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Old 08-10-2015, 09:15 PM   #386
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Early Memphis View Post
Well, alas, the UK version is out for me (Region B), what is the other DVD-size looking one? Is that the Fox version you mentioned? It didn't come up searching UK BDs, what country is it? Eh, probably be another "B".

EDIT : All countries didn't bring it up either - and every version I found ('cept the OOP TT) were "B".
I think that picture is the DVD release he refers to in paragraph 3. Btw, the Aussie release is region free and uses the longer cut.
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Old 08-10-2015, 09:41 PM   #387
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Early Memphis View Post
Well, alas, the UK version is out for me (Region B), what is the other DVD-size looking one? Is that the Fox version you mentioned? It didn't come up searching UK BDs, what country is it? Eh, probably be another "B".
Hey Memphis

baheidstu is correct This is actually my Danish DVD release from Canal, which came out long before Fox made The Driver available on DVD in the States. Like the Blu-ray, the old DVD release is also uncut.

Pro-B

p.s.
If someone decides to go for the new Japanese release, please make sure first that it uses the new remaster. I have not seen it and cannot comment on it. However, the previous Japanese release is quite poor. It uses an old 1080i transfer. This is the first Japanese release.

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Old 08-12-2015, 07:45 AM   #388
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pro-bassoonist View Post
I am a big admirer of Isabelle Adjani and have seen this film multiple times theatrically. So, I would like to leave a few comments.

1. Fox's new remaster is outstanding. Sadly, it is one of only a few such recent solid jobs from the studio.

2. The film isn't covered by a "teal filter". If you are seeing "teal", then perhaps you need to calibrate your set. If you have already done so, then perhaps you should recheck your settings.

3. The color scheme of the film does have all gray/blueish nuances seen on the new remaster. The entire neon-esque -- or what I assume you think is "teal" -- is also present on the first uncut European DVD release, which I have. The only difference on the remaster is that you have better/expanded wonderful color tonalities.



4. Good thing you brought up Mr. Mann's Thief because this film is a prime example that the neon-esque look that is present in it isn't some new recent anomaly. This is something that I have repeatedly mentioned, but people love to insist that the "Theatrical cut" on Arrow's disc is what the film should look like. Nothing could be further from the truth -- that transfer is very poor, has a completely inaccurate color scheme (and one should be able to tell without even looking at the new 4K restoration as color tonalities are blown up all over the place and the magenta is overwhelming), and without a shadow of a doubt isn't how the film looked in theaters.

5. Finally, you ask "when neon and bolder colors became more prevalent in American cinema?", and in the past I've actually given The Driver as an example because it was shot that way (as was Thief). But since you mention that such "look" can be achieved only with today's digital tools, I would like to post a few photos below that were forwarded to me from another discussion for you to consider.* (Thanks M.).

When something is digitally "tealed", it is quite easy to tell because balance is disrupted and various tonalities are lost (you can look for the nuances in blacks/grays/whites).

Enjoy the Canal disc. Unlike the U.S. disc, it has the uncut European version of The Driver and the technical presentation is outstanding.

*






Pro-B
Thanks for your detailed answer Pro-B. I think there's been a misunderstanding of my original post and it's mostly my fault. I wrote it a bit fast and I took some shortcuts I shouldn't have (notably with my use of the word "filter") and made some sweeping statements I should have tempered. But my point still stands and I'll try to explain it better this time.

1. Indeed, Fox' master is very good. I'm a bit pissed at the low bitrate it was given on the Blu Ray and the fact that there seem to be light traces of scanner noise throughout, but it's still a very strong effort and it should be noted as so.

2. My set is calibrated and I have checked the settings. No problem there (I'll provide screencaps later on, so that should alleviate your concerns).

3. I'm not questioning the accuracy of the "gray/blueish nuances" of the film. That's where I think my use of the term "teal filter" was poorly chosen. Sorry for the confusion. The whole movie has, indeed, a color palette that is shifted towards blueish nuances and I'm sure that was very much a choice made by the DoP at the time, but as I said, it appears to be pushed to extremes on the BR whenever there's a brightly lit night/interior scene (such as the parking garage or the tunnel). So my argument is not that the colors are wrong, but that they seem to be pushed too far on some scenes of the BR (I realize it wasn't put this way in my first post, but as I said, I took some shortcuts I shouldn't have). Now I won't pretend I know the film as well as you do. I only discovered it a few days ago on this BR. But it is the first time I see 1970s Eastman stock looking like this:

This shot, to me, reeks of digital color-correction. As a point of comparison I've taken an other screenshot from the same scene that looks more natural for film. You'll notice that the scene retains the colors it had on the previous screenshot, so I'm not saying they're wrong, they're just less "in your face". I really don't know how to explain it better than "a teal filter has been applied". I thought it might have been over-saturation at first but I don't think it would explain the complete loss of gray (look at the pillar in the second cap, that nuance of gray doesn't appear anywhere in the fist cap).

How these two screenshots can come from the same transfer, I just can't explain.

4. For having seen Thief in theater (admittedly more than 10 years ago and on a scratched print), I can tell you that the colors on the Arrow TC are much closer than those of the DC to what I remember seeing in theater.

5. It's not exactly what I asked and the frame you provide are so far off the mark that it made me understand that my first post was very badly worded. Obviously these look like film, no question about that. But they are not even close to what I meant by "such bold" colors. This is:

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Old 08-12-2015, 03:22 PM   #389
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It's interesting to note that all of these have different listed times:

TC Entertainment (JP) : 88 minutes
Happinet (JP) : 91 minutes
Twilight Time : 89 minutes
Any real differences? Pity that the "director's cut" IMDb lists (131 minutes) is seemingly unavailable.

As far as audio, IMDb says it was released in mono, which is what TT went with. My trusty old 2005 FOX DVD had "stereo" sound. Actually, it seemed to be all mono except for the (dubbed?) squealing tires during chase scenes, which were way cooler in "stereo". Both of the above Japanese releases are listed as having "DTS-HD Master Audio 5.1" - any actual difference there?
Cop : Just let me handle the questioning, okay? I mean, itís what I do for a living. Thereís gotta be a method to it. Itís psychology. You get him
to lower his guard - one sentence at a time, build a rhythm. Itís a lot like music.
Killer : Break his ****iní legs, heíll give ya a Who concert.

You can only have too much ammo if you're on fire or swimming.

Digital Copies Available. PM Me For A List.
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Old 08-12-2015, 04:37 PM   #390
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Early Memphis View Post
It's interesting to note that all of these have different listed times:

TC Entertainment (JP) : 88 minutes
Happinet (JP) : 91 minutes
Twilight Time : 89 minutes
Any real differences? Pity that the "director's cut" IMDb lists (131 minutes) is seemingly unavailable.

As far as audio, IMDb says it was released in mono, which is what TT went with. My trusty old 2005 FOX DVD had "stereo" sound. Actually, it seemed to be all mono except for the (dubbed?) squealing tires during chase scenes, which were way cooler in "stereo". Both of the above Japanese releases are listed as having "DTS-HD Master Audio 5.1" - any actual difference there?
The only variances are that the longer cut contains one scene missing from the North American version released by Twilight Time. There is no "131 minute directors cut". That seems to stem from a printing error on the old Fox VHS box which had 131 minutes instead of 91 minutes (i.e. 1 h 31 m). As usual, the Internet has taken that mistake and ran with it to create this mythical "directors cut."
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Old 08-12-2015, 11:35 PM   #391
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Re: the colour in the caps above, remember that flourescents and mercury vapour lamps photograph as a very sickly green on film and need to be timed out to look anything like the whiter light as they appear to our eyes. Why does the pillar next to Ryan O'Neal have a more neutral look while the others in the background don't? Because he's being lit from the left with a different light source, and note that the car headlights (probably incandescents) are a purer-looking white as well.
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Old 08-13-2015, 08:14 AM   #392
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Quote:
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Re: the colour in the caps above, remember that flourescents and mercury vapour lamps photograph as a very sickly green on film and need to be timed out to look anything like the whiter light as they appear to our eyes. Why does the pillar next to Ryan O'Neal have a more neutral look while the others in the background don't? Because he's being lit from the left with a different light source, and note that the car headlights (probably incandescents) are a purer-looking white as well.
This is what I thought as well when seeing the screenshots. On the commentary for Paris, Texas Wim Wenders talks at length about technical issues, and discusses how he intentionally did not have the movie color corrected for the flourescent/mercury vapor lighting. Here are some shots:









The two movies aren't from exactly the same era but maybe this is part of what's going on? Maybe this was done with The Driver as well?? Or was it supposed to be color corrected and wasn't???

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Old 08-13-2015, 09:54 AM   #393
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff D View Post
Re: the colour in the caps above, remember that flourescents and mercury vapour lamps photograph as a very sickly green on film and need to be timed out to look anything like the whiter light as they appear to our eyes. Why does the pillar next to Ryan O'Neal have a more neutral look while the others in the background don't? Because he's being lit from the left with a different light source, and note that the car headlights (probably incandescents) are a purer-looking white as well.

Thank you so much for that explanation Geoff, I didn't see it that way. Do you think the neon lighting might also be responsible for the boldness/vividness of the yellow in the fist cap (the car)? If so, do you think it was a even a possibility for Eastman film of the period to reproduce these kind of colors? It may just be ignorance on my part, but I always saw Eastman colors, especially on stocks from the 60s and 70s, as unable to reproduce such vivid colors. To me, it seems like the yellow in the cap below is more natural for this type of film:
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Old 08-13-2015, 10:28 AM   #394
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Looks interesting, but I really, really, really, really want a great BD release of his "Crossroads" film!!!! Criterion mastered in 4k would be perfect.
Judge me all you want, I love that movie, since I grew up watching the guitar duel alone every day for a year or so.
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Old 08-13-2015, 01:46 PM   #395
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Quote:
Originally Posted by obscurelabel View Post
This is what I thought as well when seeing the screenshots. On the commentary for Paris, Texas Wim Wenders talks at length about technical issues, and discusses how he intentionally did not have the movie color corrected for the flourescent/mercury vapor lighting. Here are some shots:

[Show spoiler]







The two movies aren't from exactly the same era but maybe this is part of what's going on? Maybe this was done with The Driver as well?? Or was it supposed to be color corrected and wasn't???
Yep, that may well be part of it, although as was pointed out to me by popeflick there's still some colour correction going on even with those cyan-looking fluorescents because otherwise they would look every bit as sickly as the Paris, Texas caps you've posted. I think the modern trend for teal and orange has meant that when it comes to retiming older movies from the ground up (see below) they don't correct things like fluorescents to read as pure white any more, they still leave in a fair bit of that greeny/blue colour.

Quote:
Originally Posted by takeshi2010 View Post
Thank you so much for that explanation Geoff, I didn't see it that way. Do you think the neon lighting might also be responsible for the boldness/vividness of the yellow in the fist cap (the car)? If so, do you think it was a even a possibility for Eastman film of the period to reproduce these kind of colors? It may just be ignorance on my part, but I always saw Eastman colors, especially on stocks from the 60s and 70s, as unable to reproduce such vivid colors. To me, it seems like the yellow in the cap below is more natural for this type of film:
[Show spoiler]
As has been explained by Michael Brooke and others, when movies are remastered from the negative the colour timing needs to be dialled in from scratch, so what you saw in the theater (several print generations later) doesn't correspond exactly to what was captured. You didn't often see such vivid green from that kind of lighting because it wasn't intended to look that way in the first place (more recent stuff like Paris, Texas and Natural Born Killers excepted); what the eye reads as white light, film reads as an intense green. Even in that grab you've selected above the green tinge still lurks in the background while the subject has been crosslit with different sources.

Some DPs liked to filter out the green as much as they could in-camera but Gordon Willis didn't camera-correct any of the fluorescents in All The President's Men, he timed it out entirely in the lab because the lighting was so pervasive in the office sets (there wasn't a mix of light sources) it was easier to just throw a blanket colour correction over the interior shots during printing (though the hung city backdrop was lit with regular tungsten lighting which needed cyan filters so that it wouldn't look odd when the fluorescents were timed out).

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Old 08-28-2015, 08:02 PM   #396
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Information on region free versions -- the Italian Bluray which is co-released with Universal/SC like the Austalian version is now being reported as region free.

Amazon It has been running various deals over the last couple months and though shipping for a single item isn't great, once you start adding disc it doesn't add that much unlike JBHiFi new shipping costs.
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