Best Blu-ray Deals

Best Blu-ray Deals, See All the Deals »
Top deals | Price drops  
 All countries United States United Kingdom Canada Germany France Spain Italy Japan
Kung Fu Panda / Kung Fu Panda 2 (Blu-ray)
$14.99
Continuum: Season Two (Blu-ray)
$12.99
Homeland: The Complete First Season (Blu-ray)
$19.99
The Life Aquatic with Steve Zissou (Blu-ray)
$19.99
American Horror Story: Asylum (Blu-ray)
$19.99
Fantastic Mr. Fox (Blu-ray)
$19.99
Bates Motel: Season Two (Blu-ray)
$19.99
Legend of the Guardians: The Owls of Ga'Hoole / Hugo (Blu-ray)
$19.99
Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows: Parts 1 & 2 3D (Blu-ray)
$19.99
Academy Award Winners (Blu-ray)
$49.49
Rushmore (Blu-ray)
$19.99
Clash of the Titans 3D / Wrath of the Titans 3D (Blu-ray)
$19.99
COLLECT WATCH TRACK RATE REVIEW APP
Manage your own movie collection and always keep it with you with our Apps. Price track movies and get price drop notifications instantly. Become a member to take full advantage of all site features.
GET STARTED

Go Back   Blu-ray Forum > Audio > Audio Theory and Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-18-2015, 11:01 PM   #961
JohnAV JohnAV is offline
Special Member
 
JohnAV's Avatar
 
Sep 2009
SF Bay area - Oppo Beta Tester
495
24
2
Default

Object-based Audio: What Are the Design Challenges? - EETimes
Quote:
Welcome to the "have-it-your-way" consumer audio experience, thanks to object-based audio.
You may be “seasoned” enough to remember a 1970s-era American ad campaign that Burger King produced for its flagship hamburger.
It was called “Have it Your Way,” and the idea was you could order a Whopper any way you liked it; you didn’t have to settle for what you’d get at other chains: A burger with everything except consumer choice.
That’s where we’re headed with the consumer audio experience today. The rise of object-based audio codecs such as MPEG-H, Dolby Atmos and DTS:X are designed take the audio experience well beyond the current channel-based state of the art.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2015, 06:23 PM   #962
AVinstallGuy AVinstallGuy is offline
Member
 
Oct 2014
Default

Like it or not, "Object Based Mixing" is here to stay. Almost all of the people mixing movies now have had a taste of what it is like to mix with objects and most of them just love it. It makes the process of building up a soundtrack easier. The question is what happens with the object based data.

Barco-Auro 11.1 has started mixing using an MDA based object system, and then they render it to their 11.1 layout, and compress it with the Auro Octopus codec to fit into the 5.1 PCM audio package. The data on the console still holds the original object position information.

Dolby Atmos is obviously object mixed, and the object data goes all the way to the theatre for rendering to whatever speaker positions were installed.

MDA, DTS-X etc, would work very similar, if they ever actually get something out.

Mixing in objects gives a greater freedom and is easier to edit and work with after the fact as well. Once you bake it down to a 5.1 / 7.1 or even 11.1, you can't decide to move the location of a sound or change the level of a separate sound. Due to this limitation, Pro Tools has been working much like an Object Audio system for years, and so has the Neve and Harrison mixing consoles. They just do the render to 5.1 or 7.1 on the output of the console. The trick with making it into "Immerssive Audio" is to add the vertical data, and be able to monitor it so you can hear the positions of the sound while making the mix. Dolby has been doing that with the RMU unit. A real time on the fly box that takes the object audio and renders it to the speaker layout in the dub stage while they are making the track, all live in real time. In this way, they know what it is going to sound like when the same object data plays thought the Dolby CP-850 in the movie theatre. This is the confidence step which the competitors have not looked at too well. If you mix on just 11.1 and make a full object track, how well are the pans going to hold up? If you mix on a full Atmos like speaker array, but then render it to 11.1, does that properly convey the movement? If you mix while listening to a DTS-X render of the objects, will it still track when you play it on a Dolby Atmos renderer? This is the problem of making the track format an open standard. There is a loss of the encode decode match. In 5.1 digital audio, all of the codecs tried to be transparent and used the same speaker positions. Rendering 128 tracks of audio and mixing it to the speaker array is not a trivial task for any DSP system. When the system gets an audio stream with a constantly changing set of X,Y,Z coordinates, how well is the perceived sound (position, level, tamber, etc.) going to match what the director created on the dubbing stage?

Getting these tracks all the way to the home added another twist into it. There is a data rate cap and a greatly reduced speaker cluster to render it all on. I did get a chance to hear the same source material in both Cinema Pro Atmos and Consumer Blu Ray Atmos. It is quite amazing how well the consumer version holds up. There are certainly some differences, but with a good speaker layout, I was quite impressed. I would love to hear the pro cinema decoder setup on just a 7.1.4 speaker arrangement and see how close they are then. My comparison for a minimum CP-850 setup still had 12 wall surrounds and 6 ceilings. The consumer setup was a 7.1.4 Denon AVR. The Harmon room at CEDIA with a Cinema Atmos decoder was 16 wall surround and 12 overhead, so even further away, yet some still prefered some of the consumer demos. The only issue I had with the Harmon booth was the ceiling speakers were just too low to cover the room well, the hung over a foot down on the gimbal mounts.

I hope Dolby Atmos becomes a much more popular choice and is used for more subtle tracks and not just loud noises. The promise of what the format can do is so far beyond what has been done in most of the movies so far. There are a few more titles announced that I can't wait to hear. In Theatres, and hopefully on a Blu Ray some time too. We need more (GOOD) content!!!
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2015, 06:39 PM   #963
ditcin ditcin is offline
Senior Member
 
ditcin's Avatar
 
Apr 2011
NY
368
1
Default

Why do BDs with Dolby TrueHD soundtracks trigger the ATMOS decoding on receivers... at least on my Marantz Sr7009
Samsung 55" OLED KN55S9C
Marantz SR7009,
Oppo BDP-103
11.2 System w/Clark Synthesis TST429 Platinum Tactile Transducer, Mirage Speakers (7) OMD-5, (2) Nanosat« Prestige for Atmos
Axiom Subwoofer EP600
X-Box One, WiiU
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2015, 08:20 PM   #964
JohnAV JohnAV is offline
Special Member
 
JohnAV's Avatar
 
Sep 2009
SF Bay area - Oppo Beta Tester
495
24
2
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AVinstallGuy View Post
I hope Dolby Atmos becomes a much more popular choice and is used for more subtle tracks and not just loud noises. The promise of what the format can do is so far beyond what has been done in most of the movies so far. There are a few more titles announced that I can't wait to hear. In Theatres, and hopefully on a Blu Ray some time too. We need more (GOOD) content!!!
Coming from a audiophile perspective ultimately you want a true immersive audio experience where even the faintest sound seems to originate from all around you, not that this is the audio deviation of 3D pokeyvision where content engineers go out of their way for various faked events that don't imitate reality but are just there for effect. Yes I think we all hope its against subtle tracks vs loud audio effects aka Transformers 4 for example.
  Reply With Quote
Thanks given by:
Blu-Dog (02-21-2015), prerich (02-20-2015)
Old 02-22-2015, 04:37 PM   #965
Ray O. Blu Ray O. Blu is online now
Blu-ray Guru
 
Ray O. Blu's Avatar
 
Sep 2008
The ú▀ă
1080
50
3
Default

Not sure if this was mentioned yet, but VUDU has an Atmos sampler that features 5 different short videos that are pretty cool to listen to.
They play in 7.1 DD+ if you're not Atmos-equipped yet.
  Reply With Quote
Thanks given by:
rubystone356 (02-22-2015)
Old 02-23-2015, 01:27 PM   #966
prerich prerich is offline
Moderator
 
prerich's Avatar
 
Dec 2007
41
1
2
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray O. Blu View Post
Not sure if this was mentioned yet, but VUDU has an Atmos sampler that features 5 different short videos that are pretty cool to listen to.
They play in 7.1 DD+ if you're not Atmos-equipped yet.
I don't think VUDU is streaming lossless anything yet. Maybe the Atmos demo is in Atmos (dolby digital+ wit the atmos metadata).
Klipsch Cornwall L/R, Klipsch Heresy center, Definitive Technology BP2's (x4) rear, Wharfedale sw380 Subs (x2), SVS 16-46 CS (X2) 2-8 inch transmission line Subs (rear), Yamaha power Amps mx830 (x2), Adcom 5503 3 channel power amp, Behringer EP4000 Power amp, BD HTPC, Xonar Essence ST/H6 modified Burson Supreme Discreet Opamps, NAS with 6gb ram running NAS4Free and 12tb of storage, Da-lite 16:9 106" Screen, BenQ 3D Projector, LG 55 inch LED TV.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2015, 01:31 PM   #967
prerich prerich is offline
Moderator
 
prerich's Avatar
 
Dec 2007
41
1
2
Default

Wow, just found this out via the Atmos white paper. Atmos can be rendered either in TrueHD or in Dolby Digital Plus. Now - other than examining the bit-rates, how do we know which mix we are getting?
Klipsch Cornwall L/R, Klipsch Heresy center, Definitive Technology BP2's (x4) rear, Wharfedale sw380 Subs (x2), SVS 16-46 CS (X2) 2-8 inch transmission line Subs (rear), Yamaha power Amps mx830 (x2), Adcom 5503 3 channel power amp, Behringer EP4000 Power amp, BD HTPC, Xonar Essence ST/H6 modified Burson Supreme Discreet Opamps, NAS with 6gb ram running NAS4Free and 12tb of storage, Da-lite 16:9 106" Screen, BenQ 3D Projector, LG 55 inch LED TV.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2015, 01:36 PM   #968
prerich prerich is offline
Moderator
 
prerich's Avatar
 
Dec 2007
41
1
2
Default

Found my answer here http://www.soundandvision.com/content/dolby-atmos-moves
Klipsch Cornwall L/R, Klipsch Heresy center, Definitive Technology BP2's (x4) rear, Wharfedale sw380 Subs (x2), SVS 16-46 CS (X2) 2-8 inch transmission line Subs (rear), Yamaha power Amps mx830 (x2), Adcom 5503 3 channel power amp, Behringer EP4000 Power amp, BD HTPC, Xonar Essence ST/H6 modified Burson Supreme Discreet Opamps, NAS with 6gb ram running NAS4Free and 12tb of storage, Da-lite 16:9 106" Screen, BenQ 3D Projector, LG 55 inch LED TV.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2015, 12:09 AM   #969
JohnAV JohnAV is offline
Special Member
 
JohnAV's Avatar
 
Sep 2009
SF Bay area - Oppo Beta Tester
495
24
2
Default

Dolby Atmos and Auro 3D: The Technology and The Reality - Secrets of Home Theater and High Fidelity - Chris Eberte - 2/23

Quote:
CEDIA 2014 was the first major showing of both Dolby Atmos and Auro 3D surround sound technologies. Secrets’ writers watched at least fifteen demos of Atmos and one of Auro 3D and came away impressed. It’s the first time we’ve seen height and overhead information added at the creation stage rather than just extrapolated from a traditional 5.1 or 7.1 soundtrack. The demos were cool but also brought up some hard questions: How much will it cost to add this shiny new tech to an existing home theater? How widely supported are the new codecs? Is there the possibility of a new format war between Dolby and Auro? I’ll explore those issues here today.
Quote:
Right now, the cost and labor associated with a Dolby Atmos and/or Auro 3D upgrade are going to be in the realm of well-heeled early adopters. You have to change out your Blu-ray player, receiver, and add several speakers. Already, I can hear many of you saying, “Change all of my primary equipment to add height and overhead? I don’t think so!” But, give it a listen at your local hi-fi dealer, or go to a movie that had Atmos. Then, think about it again.

The only concrete example I can give is what it might cost to upgrade my own theater. If I were to take the plunge, it would be for Dolby Atmos given its wider adoption. Because I use separates, I’d have to start with a new processor. The Integra DHC 80.6 has the codec and HDMI 2.0 to boot. Cost: $3,200. Then I’d need four additional speakers to serve as the height modules. Well, that’s two modules for the front mains. The DefTech A60s would work with my Axiom towers. Cost:$500 for the pair. For the surround channels, I’d have to scrap my Axiom QS8s entirely since multi-pole units are not supported in the Atmos spec. The best bet would be a pair of M60 towers and another pair of the DefTech A60s. Cost: $1,960. And of course there’s the additional four channels of amplification required. I’m an Emotiva fan, so an XPA-5 would complement what I’m currently using. Cost: $1,000.

And if you’re wondering why I haven’t mentioned a new Blu-ray player, it’s because you don’t need one! Well, that may not be entirely true. If you have a very recent model, it will likely work without issue. Some older players can experience audio drop-outs when seamless branching is used to author a Blu-ray disc. But as long as your player meets the latest Blu-ray standards and can provide bitstream output, you won’t need to upgrade anything except maybe the firmware. Thanks to the fact that Atmos information is simply a meta-data layer added to the current TrueHD codec, it’s only the receiver or processor that needs to be up changed.

I realize my theater is not budget-friendly, but to add Dolby Atmos and maintain the sound quality to which I’m accustomed, we’re looking at $6,660 plus cables, which is not a trifling sum.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2015, 01:10 AM   #970
Scarriere Scarriere is offline
Blu-ray Samurai
 
Scarriere's Avatar
 
Sep 2008
North of Sixty
23
347
15
1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnAV;10460358[SPOILER
]Dolby Atmos and Auro 3D: The Technology and The Reality [/SPOILER]- Secrets of Home Theater and High Fidelity - Chris Eberte - 2/23
Yikes!
And all I wanted to do is a new AVR ($1700 or so) and some ceiling speakers, ($800, maybe?).
Gotta pay to play, I guess.
Optimism is the faith that leads to achievement. Nothing can be done without hope and confidence.
- Helen Keller
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2015, 01:52 AM   #971
JohnAV JohnAV is offline
Special Member
 
JohnAV's Avatar
 
Sep 2009
SF Bay area - Oppo Beta Tester
495
24
2
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarriere View Post
Yikes!
And all I wanted to do is a new AVR ($1700 or so) and some ceiling speakers, ($800, maybe?).
Gotta pay to play, I guess.
Its dependent on your current system components cost. I don't think anyone here wants to downgrade or go the cheap route against one's AV setup quality when setting up for Atmos, or Auro 3D capability. Obviously there are cheaper components to use to do the job, but I highlighted it to show his example.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2015, 02:15 AM   #972
Scarriere Scarriere is offline
Blu-ray Samurai
 
Scarriere's Avatar
 
Sep 2008
North of Sixty
23
347
15
1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnAV View Post
Its dependent on your current system components cost. I don't think anyone here wants to downgrade or go the cheap route against one's AV setup quality when setting up for Atmos, or Auro 3D capability. Obviously there are cheaper components to use to do the job, but I highlighted it to show his example.
Yeah, for sure!
I find it a bit ironic that with having some fairly serious audio gear, that he'd choose to get $500 modules and count on reflective sound instead of getting actual speakers and installing them in his ceiling.
He'd probably laugh though if he ever saw my Atmos set up when I eventually and inevitably have it.
To each their own right?
A person could get an Onkyo htib right now that is Atmos ready and pay minimal. Or they could go the "all out" way and pay a premium.
Whatever works and that'll be the way I pursue this awesome new technology!
Optimism is the faith that leads to achievement. Nothing can be done without hope and confidence.
- Helen Keller
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2015, 02:47 AM   #973
Lurchtt Lurchtt is offline
Junior Member
 
Jul 2014
Default

After sitting through many demos at CEDIA it was a no brainier for me that Dolby Atmos enabled speakers sounded better (less direct) than overhead ceiling speakers. Right now I think Atlantic Tecnology's 44-DA Atmos speakers are best of the early bunch.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2015, 08:42 PM   #974
JohnAV JohnAV is offline
Special Member
 
JohnAV's Avatar
 
Sep 2009
SF Bay area - Oppo Beta Tester
495
24
2
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lurchtt View Post
After sitting through many demos at CEDIA it was a no brainier for me that Dolby Atmos enabled speakers sounded better (less direct) than overhead ceiling speakers. Right now I think Atlantic Tecnology's 44-DA Atmos speakers are best of the early bunch.
How does the defused output of a 44 DA elevation speaker sound better then discrete overhead speakers or discrete angled height speakers? Looking at the spec's it appears this elevation speaker is more or less similar to a small bookcase or surround speaker in actual performance. I can certainly agree that some people find the more defused acoustic projection more pleasing for some broad sound effects using pairs of elevation speakers, but would have poor performance when it comes to sound panning effects IMHO.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2015, 12:58 AM   #975
Mr.Poindexter Mr.Poindexter is offline
Senior Member
 
Mr.Poindexter's Avatar
 
Jul 2010
29
1
Default

It probably sounds more diffused and less pinpointed. It probably sounds a bit less bright as the reflection will tone down the highest frequencies a little bit.
  Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 03:15 PM   #976
AVinstallGuy AVinstallGuy is offline
Member
 
Oct 2014
Default

From what I can tell on the systems that I installed, Dolby has a few neat tricks with the Atmos Enabled speakers. There is a good reason that they want them directly on top of an ear level speaker at the same plane angle from the listener. The direct aimed ear level speaker is acting as a local bass management channel for the up firing driver, and it may also be playing some "anti-sound" to help cancel any direct leakage from the up firing driver. In the one room I did where the front up firing speakers are 18 inches wider apart than the left and right, the image seems a bit more blurred like something is leaking into the left right. I do not have any material that I know should be top only to see if this was recorded in, or part of the process. It certainly does not sound bad in any way, and from the listening position, it is gone. I changed the mode to true ceiling speakers, and there was much greater separation of the sounds between the left front and the left top, but the overhead image was nowhere near as stable above, you hear it more coming from the speaker's true location, even though it is aiming up and not at you. The room with the Pioneer Elite speakers didn't seem to have the slight leakage, so I never checked close to hear if top speaker signals were coming out of the front, but when I put those into overhead speaker mode, it also did the same thing, where the bounce faded and the direct form the speaker became more dominant. Put it back into "Atmos Enabled mode" and the image moves back to the ceiling. This is a cool acoustic trick they are pulling off.
  Reply With Quote
Thanks given by:
PeterTHX (Today)
Reply
Go Back   Blu-ray Forum > Audio > Audio Theory and Discussion


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 08:21 PM.