Best Blu-ray Deals

Best Blu-ray Deals, See All the Deals »
Top deals | Price drops  
 All countries United States United Kingdom Canada Germany France Spain Italy Japan
Willow (Blu-ray)
$9.96
28 Days Later / 28 Weeks Later (Blu-ray)
$7.99
Attack on Titan Part 2 (Blu-ray)
$24.96
Mad Men: The Final Season, Part 1 (Blu-ray)
$19.99
Minority Report (Blu-ray)
$7.88
Psycho (Blu-ray)
$10.98
My Mental Choices Are Completely Interfering with My School Romantic Comedy: Complete Collection (Blu-ray)
$42.99
Star Trek: The Compendium (Blu-ray)
$24.96
The Hunt (Blu-ray)
$11.49
Planet of the Vampires (Blu-ray)
$19.99
Old School (Blu-ray)
$5.20
Masterpiece: Downton Abbey Seasons 1 - 4 (Blu-ray)
$44.99
Chucky: The Complete Collection (Blu-ray)
$31.76
The Dick Van Dyke Show: The Complete Series (Blu-ray)
$54.99
Lifeforce (Blu-ray)
$14.59
The Sopranos: The Complete Series (Blu-ray)
$199.99
COLLECT WATCH TRACK RATE REVIEW APP
Manage your own movie collection and always keep it with you with our Apps. Price track movies and get price drop notifications instantly. Become a member to take full advantage of all site features.
GET STARTED
Old 10-21-2014, 05:13 PM   #541
prerich prerich is offline
Moderator
 
prerich's Avatar
 
Dec 2007
41
1
2
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnAV View Post
Its interesting but back a few years when Dolby True HD and DTS-HD-MA first arrived a few months apart there were receivers that only offered one type of lossless audio support just as these first Atmos capable AVR's.

Then of course you have people kinda hesitant to leap too early, and so a Poll was asked concerning this latest audio technology push.

Is Now Too Soon to Upgrade to Dolby Atmos?
  • I'm taking a wait-and-see approach for at least another year or more. (49%, 169 Votes)
  • I'm not interested in new sound formats anyway. I'm happy with what I have now. (23%, 78 Votes)
  • I was planning an upgrade, but now I may postpone it. (13%, 46 Votes)
  • I'm planning an upgrade soon and still intend to go through with it. (9%, 31 Votes)
  • I've already upgraded to Atmos and I have no regrets. (4%, 15 Votes)
  • I've already upgraded, but now I wish I'd waited. (2%, 3 Votes)
Total Voters: 342

I find the lack of interest or hesitation to be quite evident.
True - I'm on the hesitant side myself - waiting for PC support.
Klipsch Cornwall L/R, Klipsch Heresy center, Definitive Technology BP2's (x4) rear, Wharfedale sw380 Subs (x2), SVS 16-46 CS (X2) 2-8 inch transmission line Subs (rear), Yamaha power Amps mx830 (x2), Adcom 5503 3 channel power amp, Behringer EP4000 Power amp, BD HTPC, Xonar Essence ST/H6 modified Burson Supreme Discreet Opamps, Da-lite 16:9 106" Screen, BenQ 3D Projector, LG 55 inch LED TV.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2014, 10:53 PM   #542
AudioWarrior AudioWarrior is offline
Member
 
AudioWarrior's Avatar
 
Aug 2014
Reading, PA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Badas View Post
Denon and Marantz Announce Upgrade to Add Auro 3D

Dolby Atmos got a lot of attention at CEDIA because it was all over the show, whereas Auro 3D—currently the main competition to Atmos in the immersive-audio market—was almost lost in the noise with a single demonstration. But that could soon change, now that Denon has just announced a firmware upgrade for its AVR-X4100W and AVR-X5200W AV receivers that will add Auro 3D capabilities to their already-impressive list of features, including Dolby Atmos. The upgrade will be available in December for an undisclosed fee. (Sorry, it won't be free.
Sucks that it's not free! I might as well wait for next years AV receivers since they'll come with both formats, plus DTS UHD when that becomes available. Seems like Dolby Atmos and Auro 3D might become this generations Dolby True HD and DTS-HD-MA.

Well I already have a few Auro 3D soundtracks plus a few movies in Dolby Atmos so I'm good to go for demo material!

Last edited by prerich; 10-22-2014 at 12:24 PM. Reason: correction
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2014, 02:59 AM   #543
Badas Badas is offline
Blu-ray Ninja
 
Badas's Avatar
 
Aug 2008
LOTR Auckland, New Zealand (Down Under)
96
1678
27
11
8
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AudioWarrior View Post
Sucks that it's not free! I might as well wait for next years AV receivers since they'll come with both formats, plus DTS UHD when that becomes available. Seems like Dolby Atmos and Auro 3D might become this generations Dolby True HD and DTS-HD-MA.

Well I already have a few Auro 3D soundtracks plus a few movies in Dolby Atmos so I'm good to go for demo material!
I will get the upgrade as soon as it's available. Yes in this day and age it should be free. Maybe it is something to with licensing?

On a side note. My Projector is getting a hardware upgrade next week. New HDMI board. HDCP 2.2 or something like that. Is suppose to do 3D 4k at 60hz (no software yet altho I've been told that frame interpolation can be used). So hardware flown from France to New Zealand, plus technician time and the cost is zilch. Nothing. Now that's service.
Source: iPod 160G in Arcam DrDock, 2x Oppo BDP-103D's (Blu-ray, CD, SACD and DVD Audio), PS3 and PS4.
Amplification: Marantz SR7009(Atmos), 2x Marantz MM7055's (10 amps bi-amping 5 channels).
Speakers (Atmos 5.3.2): 4 x Polk RTiA7's, Polk CSP 1000, 2x Atlantic TLC-8.2, Polk PSW 1200, 2x SVS SB Ultra 13's and triple buttkicker system.
Projection: Dreamvision Yunzi + 3 Tentation Ltd. Ed.
Headgear: Woo WA22 (tube amp), Oppo HA-1 (DAC and amp), Audeze LCD-3.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2014, 05:11 AM   #544
slimdude slimdude is offline
Blu-ray Ninja
 
slimdude's Avatar
 
Apr 2009
-
-
8
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AudioWarrior View Post

Well I already have a few Auro 3D soundtracks plus a few movies in Dolby Atmos so I'm good to go for demo material!
You have a few movies in Dolby Atmos? There is only one blu-ray that's encoded in Dolby Atmos right now, and it's Transformers: Age of Extinction. Other titles will be released soon.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2014, 05:26 AM   #545
AudioWarrior AudioWarrior is offline
Member
 
AudioWarrior's Avatar
 
Aug 2014
Reading, PA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by slimdude View Post
You have a few movies in Dolby Atmos? There is only one blu-ray that's encoded in Dolby Atmos right now, and it's Transformers: Age of Extinction. Other titles will be released soon.
Only in America

BTW, here's a few Atmos demos if anybody wants them, plus demo's for True-HD 5.1 and 7.1 http://www.demolandia.net/theatrical...y-digital.html
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2014, 03:19 PM   #546
Tech-UK Tech-UK is offline
Blu-ray Samurai
 
Tech-UK's Avatar
 
Sep 2010
UK
81
350
22
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Badas View Post
I will get the upgrade as soon as it's available. Yes in this day and age it should be free. Maybe it is something to with licensing?

On a side note. My Projector is getting a hardware upgrade next week. New HDMI board. HDCP 2.2 or something like that. Is suppose to do 3D 4k at 60hz (no software yet altho I've been told that frame interpolation can be used). So hardware flown from France to New Zealand, plus technician time and the cost is zilch. Nothing. Now that's service.
Yes, but how much was your PJ?
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2014, 09:39 PM   #547
ZoetMB ZoetMB is online now
Blu-ray Samurai
 
May 2009
New York
157
27
3
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AVinstallGuy View Post
Since the final result of DTS HD MA and Dolby True HD are both true lossless codecs, then the decoded audio of both will be the identical PCM stream to the DA converter. Of course, assuming the same mix is used. Onmany DVD's, the DTS mix was a "sweetened" version which led to the belief that the DTS codec was better in some way. When compared to the same original uncompressed PCM masters, the Dolby AC3 version was mistaken for the original PCM master more often than the DTS version. Hmmmm Which is actually more accurate?
The only way to tell whether a result is equivalent to the original is to play both synched together with one out of phase with the other.

If the two versions are exactly alike, you'll hear silence.

Any differences will be heard as audio artifacts.

For all the complains about lossy audio formats on this site (I love it when someone complains that a 1932 soundtrack which probably had no audio above 3KHz is not DTS-MA or Dolby True-HD) I attended a SMPTE meeting demo some years ago where they used the above procedure to play back a Dolby AC3 soundtrack and the only thing we heard was a slight "sssss" sound every once in a while. Those were the only differences between the AC3 and the uncompressed original. AC3 is far better than most people think it is.

I've never a had a chance to run the same test with a DTS soundtrack. What would be interesting is get both a DTS-HD and Dolby True-HD track and run them out of phase with the original and with each other to see if any differences are heard.

I also see no reason why a DTS mix would have been sweetened where the Dolby AC3 mix wasn't. Generally, you mix first and then a technician creates the DTS and AC3 versions or the DTS-HD and the AC3 versions or the Dolby True-HD and the AC3 versions.
loose="not tight", lose="can't find it, doesn't have anymore" or the opposite of "win".
their="belongs to", there="place", they're="they are", there's = "there is"
it's="it is", for everything else use "its"
then="after", than="compared with"
"a lot" not "alot"

A Guide to Spelling and Punctuation
  Reply With Quote
Thanks given by:
PeterTHX (Yesterday)
Old 10-23-2014, 09:52 PM   #548
Badas Badas is offline
Blu-ray Ninja
 
Badas's Avatar
 
Aug 2008
LOTR Auckland, New Zealand (Down Under)
96
1678
27
11
8
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tech-UK View Post
Yes, but how much was your PJ?
Yeah I know. I'm not going to disclose that. Still they didn't have to do it.
Source: iPod 160G in Arcam DrDock, 2x Oppo BDP-103D's (Blu-ray, CD, SACD and DVD Audio), PS3 and PS4.
Amplification: Marantz SR7009(Atmos), 2x Marantz MM7055's (10 amps bi-amping 5 channels).
Speakers (Atmos 5.3.2): 4 x Polk RTiA7's, Polk CSP 1000, 2x Atlantic TLC-8.2, Polk PSW 1200, 2x SVS SB Ultra 13's and triple buttkicker system.
Projection: Dreamvision Yunzi + 3 Tentation Ltd. Ed.
Headgear: Woo WA22 (tube amp), Oppo HA-1 (DAC and amp), Audeze LCD-3.
  Reply With Quote
Thanks given by:
Tech-UK (10-23-2014)
Old 10-23-2014, 10:01 PM   #549
ZoetMB ZoetMB is online now
Blu-ray Samurai
 
May 2009
New York
157
27
3
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnAV View Post
Its interesting but back a few years when Dolby True HD and DTS-HD-MA first arrived a few months apart there were receivers that only offered one type of lossless audio support just as these first Atmos capable AVR's.

Then of course you have people kinda hesitant to leap too early, and so a Poll was asked concerning this latest audio technology push.

Is Now Too Soon to Upgrade to Dolby Atmos?
  • I'm taking a wait-and-see approach for at least another year or more. (49%, 169 Votes)
  • I'm not interested in new sound formats anyway. I'm happy with what I have now. (23%, 78 Votes)
  • I was planning an upgrade, but now I may postpone it. (13%, 46 Votes)
  • I'm planning an upgrade soon and still intend to go through with it. (9%, 31 Votes)
  • I've already upgraded to Atmos and I have no regrets. (4%, 15 Votes)
  • I've already upgraded, but now I wish I'd waited. (2%, 3 Votes)
Total Voters: 342

I find the lack of interest or hesitation to be quite evident.
IMO, the poll is worthless because my bet is that most of the people who participated have not yet actually heard immersive audio. And everyone SHOULD be hesitant even if they think it's the greatest thing in the world: they haven't heard it yet (with just a few exceptions). Also, haven't most people learned by now that you don't buy the first version of anything? I always wait at least a week before loading any software or firmware updates just to make sure there aren't any problems.

It also may be moot because I think within a few years, all high-end AV receivers will include the major formats anyway. They won't necessarily contain all the amplifiers needed, but they'll do the decode and provide the outputs.

But having said that and as much as I love Atmos in the theatre, I think one would be foolish to believe that these immersive formats are going to be mass market consumer products. How many consumers even have 7.1? The numbers are very small. In the mass market, you're lucky if someone has a sound bar. These are going to be niche formats, almost by definition.

The question going forward is whether Dolby, Auro, Datastat and others are going to be able to get enough theater builds so that the studios continue making Atmos and Auro mixes. If they do and there's little a studio has to do to transfer those mixes to Blu-ray, then no problem, although if only because of schedules, I think the studios are going to be reluctant to do a different mix for each immersive format. With Dolby Digital, DTS and Sony SDDS there were no separate mixes (with the possible exception of SDDS-8) and there aren't separate mixes for 5.1/7.1 digital presentations. But if they lose interest because there's not enough theaters (which is what happened with Dolby EX and DTS-ES) and there isn't going to be many movies released in these formats, there's no format. We're already seeing everyone with a lot less interest in 3D. For 2014, in the U.S., I'm counting about 31 Atmos releases and 15 Auro.

Personally, I think they've both got problems getting implemented. In NYC, there are only 3 Atmos installations in regular theaters and zero (!) Auro installations. That's not a good sign in what is probably still the largest movie market in the U.S.
loose="not tight", lose="can't find it, doesn't have anymore" or the opposite of "win".
their="belongs to", there="place", they're="they are", there's = "there is"
it's="it is", for everything else use "its"
then="after", than="compared with"
"a lot" not "alot"

A Guide to Spelling and Punctuation
  Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 04:00 PM   #550
AVinstallGuy AVinstallGuy is offline
Junior Member
 
Oct 2014
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZoetMB View Post
The only way to tell whether a result is equivalent to the original is to play both synched together with one out of phase with the other.

If the two versions are exactly alike, you'll hear silence.

Any differences will be heard as audio artifacts.

For all the complains about lossy audio formats on this site (I love it when someone complains that a 1932 soundtrack which probably had no audio above 3KHz is not DTS-MA or Dolby True-HD) I attended a SMPTE meeting demo some years ago where they used the above procedure to play back a Dolby AC3 soundtrack and the only thing we heard was a slight "sssss" sound every once in a while. Those were the only differences between the AC3 and the uncompressed original. AC3 is far better than most people think it is.

I've never a had a chance to run the same test with a DTS soundtrack. What would be interesting is get both a DTS-HD and Dolby True-HD track and run them out of phase with the original and with each other to see if any differences are heard.

I also see no reason why a DTS mix would have been sweetened where the Dolby AC3 mix wasn't. Generally, you mix first and then a technician creates the DTS and AC3 versions or the DTS-HD and the AC3 versions or the Dolby True-HD and the AC3 versions.
The "Difference" test is a very good way to tell if there is "any difference" and is a very good way to show what is beibng lost on lossy codecs. Dolby AC3 at 640 Kbps is quite amazing at how well it can reproduce a 5.1 signal that originally took something like 5 Mbps in PCM. When I did the first listening tests on film I was expecting to hear far more artifacts. The film system only runs at 348Kbps. The original DVD 384Kbps version was essentially identical with the extra bits used to make it decode faster. The film decoder needed 4 frames while the consume DVD had to decode in one frame. The later 640 Kbps a,d I think there is even a 7XX Kbps version did add more resolution in both time and spectrum. AC3 uses 2 different modes. Most audio in music has fairly slow changes in spectrum, so normally AC3 uses high spectrum resolution at less changes per second. When the source has rapid changes in spectrum, it changes to a lower resolution spectrum with more changes per second. The high bit rate versions can hold higher spectral resolution to a faster rate of change. This makes for less lossy.

I have far less knowledge of Dolby Digital Plus and AAC etc. They also use the time/frequency domain coding, but the coding is far more efficient and more accurate. I believe AC3 was only out to 20 bit while AAC is near 24 bit accuracy. The perceptual coding part is what makes the Dolby codecs work so well at such low it rates. There are many codecs that do sound very good, but Dolby has a way of making far fewer bits sound better than most others can do with 4 times the bit rate.

Once you get over 2 Mbps or so, the whole things becomes redundant. This is where lossless came in. Lossless packing of audio can achieve a bit better than 2:1 compression on just about any waveform. Sme will compress much more, others will not compress at all, so lossless systems tend to be variable bit rate with an average size ratio between about 2:1 and 3:1 for music tracks, and for a movie with some dialog alone in there, I have seen better than 5:1 space savings.

DTS HD MA, Dolby True HD, FLAC, Apple Lossless all end up in this same area. And they all do produce bit for bit identical results. The difference is in how it is packaged and reconstructed. Try taking a WAVE file from a CD track and just use Win Zip and look what you get. It is pretty close to FLAC etc. The difference is that the codecs are made to play live. Zip will need to be un Zipped to the wave to play it again. The codecs break the audio stream into blocks to be able to do this. Bigger blocks can pack more efficiently, but require longer latency to encode or decode.

The whole thing about the DTS "sweetened" mixes was a pretty big deal back in the DVD days. There was no doubt at all that the mix was clearly different. The sound from the DTS version was clearly different. In most cases, it was things like the LFE level being a bit higher, the surrounds being higher, the high end response being a bit boosted. The result was that when you did an A-B comparison, the DTS one seemed more alive and the Dolby AC3 was a bit more dull in comparison. This was clearly not a codec issue at all. I have no information about who was authorizing or doing these other mixes. It really is not even a different mix, but more of a tweak in Eq and levels before it was burned on the disk. So this notion of DTS versions sounding better made people willing to wait 2 weeks and pay more for the DTS release of a movie. Now that BLu Ray has both Dolby True HD and DTS HD MA as required codecs, it is very hard to find the same movie in both Dolby and DTS versions to do any real comparison.

Dolby has always had this belief that the people who create the track make the decision on what it should sound like. Dolby processes have all been designed to carry the content producer's vision to the audience as accurately as possible, right down to the Eq and level of every sound. Now with Dolby Atmos, you can add the position of each sound as well. Even if the result sounds "better" to someone, it would not be as accurate if it sounds different from the original source.
  Reply With Quote
Thanks given by:
PeterTHX (Yesterday), Ulisez (Yesterday)
Old Yesterday, 04:26 PM   #551
ZoetMB ZoetMB is online now
Blu-ray Samurai
 
May 2009
New York
157
27
3
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AVinstallGuy View Post
Now that BLu Ray has both Dolby True HD and DTS HD MA as required codecs, it is very hard to find the same movie in both Dolby and DTS versions to do any real comparison.
Typo? They're not both required. That's why you can't find a movie with both.
loose="not tight", lose="can't find it, doesn't have anymore" or the opposite of "win".
their="belongs to", there="place", they're="they are", there's = "there is"
it's="it is", for everything else use "its"
then="after", than="compared with"
"a lot" not "alot"

A Guide to Spelling and Punctuation
  Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 04:33 PM   #552
PeterTHX PeterTHX is online now
Blu-ray Knight
 
PeterTHX's Avatar
 
Sep 2006
488
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AVinstallGuy View Post
(edit)

Great post, couple of minor corrections:


Theatrical AC-3 is 320kbps


Broadcast TV and LaserDisc use 384kbps. Some TV programs can use 448.


DVD used mostly 448kbps (some titles were 384, notably early Warner titles), Ring of Fire on DVD used only 256kbps...because they squeezed 6 5.1 dub tracks on there!

DVHS used a bitrate of 576kbps


Blu-ray lossy (majority) 640kbps.
  Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 06:01 PM   #553
Tech-UK Tech-UK is offline
Blu-ray Samurai
 
Tech-UK's Avatar
 
Sep 2010
UK
81
350
22
Default

Which is why I believe DTS has prospered more on Blu-ray, due to the fact that people believe that the DTS codec produces superior sound, due to the alterations made to the audio and then encoded using DTS on DVD.

The studio's must have caught on to this, and switched to using DTS-HD MA because they know, that most of the consumers are going to see the words 'DTS-HD Master Audio' or see the logo and instantly think, "yes, DTS audio!"

People are starting to learn that both TrueHD and MA produce the same audio, and we are starting to see a rise of titles with TrueHD. Not that it went anywhere, but more blockbusters are being released with TrueHD tracks, and it seems Dolby Atmos is becoming the next big thing in terms of audio.

We may see Dolby becoming dominant in this stage of audio presentation.
  Reply With Quote
Thanks given by:
Ulisez (Yesterday)
Reply
Go Back   Blu-ray Forum > Audio > Audio Theory and Discussion


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 12:35 AM.