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Old 04-20-2017, 04:56 AM   #21
SPIDERone SPIDERone is offline
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Originally Posted by Spitfrnd View Post
Much is said about the motion issues with the OLEDs. How is this manifest and how much does it affect movie watching (only fast action scenes or something else and how)? Is this generation Sony LCD immune to that issue? For the Sony, how much offset from the center produces a noticeable change in picture quality? How is the LCD back lighting issue manifest and how does it affect what you watch? At what room lighting level does the Sony match the LG (as in do you need a room with no light or some level above that for the LG to prevail)?
I personally do notice the judder on the C6, but others say they don't. I use mine almost exclusively with movies, so other content may be slightly different, but it is definitely noticeable.
I found that setting the "De-Judder" to +2 or so tends to eliminate most of it except for long panning shots. You'll still see them every so often, but it's not a total dealbreaker. If you set the de-judder much higher (I think it goes up to +10) you start seeing weird artifacts from the frame-insertion and get the soap-opera effect. The +2 seems to be the best solution.

When does the LCD start to look fine? I think if you're in a room with some lighting (whether it's a low-ambient or a bias-lighting behind the TV) you should get a great picture on the Sony. The part that killed it for me is that I watch in a totally pitch-dark room and find the backlighting on the LCD/LED's to be too distracting. Here's a quick video (it exaggerated the fact a bit, but gives you a good idea -- this is with the 930E):

Skip to the 3Min 52sec mark

If you're going to always have a light on in the room, I'd go as far as to say that the Sony might even be the better buy. It does get significantly brighter and looks great.. For me, in the dark, the OLED wins hands-down since I don't need that high brightness and will appreciate the inky blacks and the brightness is fine since it's a dark room. Coming from a plasma, I absolutely love the OLED and wouldn't switch back to anything else.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric_The_Victor View Post
In your opinion is the 3D worth the 25% loss of brightness compared to the 2017 models? You say the lack of nits hurt the OLED in HDR, is this also true with 3D as most people notice a drop due to the glasses. I have a good number of 3d movies and would like not to have to give up 3d for 4k. I have a very dark room and am currently using a Plasma so I am somewhat use to a black-bias picture over a bright-bias picture. As for judder if it can be fixed by incressing tru-motion setting thats ok as I dont have a problum with the so called "soap opera effect" and enjoyed watching the Hobbit in High frame rate.
Personally, yes. The 3D of the 2016 set is absolutely worth the light loss compared to the 2017 set (in my opinion). Having always used a relatively higher-end/highly rated 3DTV, the OLED is the best I've seen for 3D content.. The clarity and depth of the 3D in the set is well above the Panasonic's I've used and compared to some TV's that display "OK" 3D, this thing blows them away.

If the 2017 model had 3D, I probably would have waited until next year to upgrade. The fact that all TV's are losing 3D made me rush out to get the C6 (I have about 200 3D discs). If the performance was even 75% as good as it is, I would still keep this over the brightness. In a darkened room, the TV brightness is still good. I have no doubts that the 2017 sets will have a much more impressive HDR, but that also comes at a much higher price and the loss of 3D. If you plan to watch it in a well-lit room, the 2016 OLED may not be for you though.

I'm not trying to justify my purchase of the 2016 - I'll be the first to tell you if I bought it and was disappointed. For my uses, it's absolutely perfect. If I were to be watching a lot of content in the daytime or with the lights on, I probably would have gone for the 75" X940D for the same price. Since I watch in a darkened room, the OLED is the much better option, especially if you're already coming from a plasma.
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Old 04-29-2017, 12:57 AM   #22
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Thanks again for your informative and candid observations. One question came to mind as I was reading your latest post. What do you mean by "especially coming from a Plasma"? I would be coming from the same place obviously but the judder and room light issues (not to mention that big screen) have me leaning toward the Sony. I understand that gives up some perfect blacks but is that all I would miss?
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Old 04-29-2017, 08:06 AM   #23
SPIDERone SPIDERone is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spitfrnd View Post
Thanks again for your informative and candid observations. One question came to mind as I was reading your latest post. What do you mean by "especially coming from a Plasma"? I would be coming from the same place obviously but the judder and room light issues (not to mention that big screen) have me leaning toward the Sony. I understand that gives up some perfect blacks but is that all I would miss?
Prior to the OLED I owned/used a Panasonic 50" Plasma (one of the last ones released, which were generally rated very highly) and still own a smaller Panasonic 3D LED TV (again, a somewhat highly rated one). Since I always watch in a darkened room, the LED was a bit distracting, particularly in movies. Videogames seemed fine (since the backlighting was often un-noticeable) but movies always had that halo glow around objects since (it might be my choice in movies) there were often dark scenes. The picture quality was awesome on both, but seeing a small object in space having a light-grey halo block floating around the picture or having a pure black screen but the TV is glowing a dark blue color

This is obviously an exaggerated example, and comes from LG, but gives an idea of what I'm talking about:


In a darkened room, it was always a bit of a dealbreaker. Compared to the plasma with everything having great black levels and awesome picture quality, I was always let down by the LED despite it being newer and more expensive.

I personally greatly prefer the OLED, but I do know it's not the best option for everyone and definitely don't want to convince you to go down that route (I'm not making any commission here and I'm not an LG employ.. in fact, I've had some poor experienced before with LG which had me hesitant to get an OLED. I was set on the SONY for the longest time)

To me, the differences you'll see are:

The "perfect blacks" are probably the biggest, but I think in actual use it goes a bit further (into the contrast) since the pixels are all individual rather than relying on a LED behind them to light them up. In a lit room, it's again probably not as noticeable.
Winner: LG (darkroom)

You'll lose 3D (if you look at the C6 vs X930E), which is great on the OLED.
Winner: LG (if you get the C6, or if 3D matters to you. the B6 doesn't do 3D)

I haven't seen it myself, but apparently the viewing angle on the X930e is a bit problematic if you're to the sides, but again this might not be an issue (I always sit straight-on, but some people do have couches on the sides that hold a whole family)
Winner: LG (again, if you sit to the side at all)

You'll gain much higher brightness over the OLED
Winner: Sony

Motion blur is supposedly less of an issue on the OLEDs since there isn't overlap between them, but I do find the judder a bit jerky/distracting. I think the motion blur on an LCD helps mask this a bit.
Winner: I'd probably give the win to Sony here. While there may be motion blur, there isn't the distracting judder.

The X930E looks to be about $3,300 right now while the B6 was just on sale for $2499 earlier today
Winner: LG (but only because it's cheaper due to being a 2016 model).

A lot of the "wins" you get with LG are subject to each person. If you're going to watch something at 2 in the afternoon in a normal room, the SONY will probably look better and that's the one I'd recommend. I have black-out curtains and watch in a pure-dark room so the LG is the clear winner, but that's a bit of a special-use scenario. I'd love to get the 2017 OLED for the brighter picture but just can't justify the price.
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Old 04-29-2017, 02:45 PM   #24
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Thanks that is very helpful. I guess I need to try and see the key points of weakness for both you describe. Any suggestions on how to see the OLED motion and LED Halo effects (the side view I believe I can see easily enough) in a retail setting since that is all I will likely be able to see either of these in?
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Old 04-29-2017, 11:26 PM   #25
SPIDERone SPIDERone is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spitfrnd View Post
Thanks that is very helpful. I guess I need to try and see the key points of weakness for both you describe. Any suggestions on how to see the OLED motion and LED Halo effects (the side view I believe I can see easily enough) in a retail setting since that is all I will likely be able to see either of these in?
My biggest recommendation is to try to get access to the settings on the TVs.

I went to 2 bestbuy/Magnolia's and all of them were "locked down" (the TV's were only playing demo content, not hooked up to the same feeds). I found one down here that was a "Magnolia Design Center" inside best buy which was totally different.. all content hooked up to the same feeds and you can play around with the controls.

The problem with the demo content (SONY provides content for the SONY TVs, LG for the LG, Samsung for the Samsung TVs, etc..), are that the LG demos are pretty plain in comparison. The Sony and Samsung sets have great content, clarity, color, etc.. while the LG ones tend to be fairly slow-paced and try to focus on the fake "Standard TV vs OLED TV" side-by-sides.

The LG sets also have the processing cranked up (color, brightness, and motion processing), mixed with slower moving content you just won't notice it.

I recommend (if you can get access to the controls, either on the TV itself or on the remote) are to set picture mode to: Expect (Dark Room) and disable "Motion Pro" (or whatever it's called.. either disable completely or set to +2 judder, +10 motion blur) to get a real idea for how the content looks on it. I haven't noticed any issues with games and motion but with any video content with a slow-pan you'll see it. I've only noticed it on the 24p content.

If you don't have access to a Magnolia Design Center (https://www.magnoliaav.com/locations/ - you'll want the one that says 'design center' as the others will only have the demo content), you might want to try a Frys or other home theater place to see if they have it.

Unfortunately, most stores aren't a great place to view them side by side since they tend to control the content, the settings and have them in a brightly lit room.

Side-by-side, the LG probably looked the worst in person (which is why I was leaning towards the other models). I got the OLED on the selling point that if it doesn't work out, they'll pick it up and do a full refund on it.


Sony and Samsung really make an impressive demo which makes the sets shine. Seeing 2 demos like these below, side-by-side, the Sony will always look incredibly more impressive:

Sony:

LG:
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Old 05-01-2017, 05:41 PM   #26
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Thanks again. It seems there is a Design Center fairly near so I will go there and try your suggestions. I would like to see the Sony Demo on the LG but it may be best to take my own content. Any suggestions on movies that bring out the best and worst for each of these sets? One from my collection would be best of course but if that is too much of a burden, if you could just suggest a few for each and what to look for. Please disregard if I am asking for too much.
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Old 05-02-2017, 07:02 AM   #27
SPIDERone SPIDERone is offline
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They should have a "Kaleidascape" (sp?) which is a single server with about 100 different 1080p blu-rays loaded onto it that will stream to all TVs in the showroom, so you can pick some from there. It's a great way to get a side-by-side view of these, and Magnolia tend to be a bit more dimly lit (but not entirely dark room).

They should give you a remote to play around with it, I spent about an hour or so just trying different content.. since the TVs there are a mix of wall-mounts and TV stands, you can move around and see a real side-by-side of where they succeed or have issues.

No specific movies I can think of. A few I checked out on the player were a space movie (I think one of the imax titles?) and Pirates of the Caribbean (I think one of the recent ones, which started on a dark river), both really showed off the dark levels (in a room with some dim lighting) which might be a better thing to see than a pitch black room, so you get a more natural comparison.

I'd say just play with the TV settings and go out of Vivid modes
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Old 05-03-2017, 12:16 AM   #28
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Thanks again. Maybe a dumb (or at least uninformed question) but what are Vivid modes?
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Old 05-03-2017, 09:07 AM   #29
SPIDERone SPIDERone is offline
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Quote:
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Thanks again. Maybe a dumb (or at least uninformed question) but what are Vivid modes?
Most TV's have different "modes" for the picture settings. They might be "Game Mode", "Movie Mode", "Bright", "Standard", "Vivid"

Vivid is a mode that stores tend to use to make a TV stand out against the rest. Contrast, brightness, sharpness and all of the processing are cranked up to max. It makes the TV stand out among others in the room (it makes them look very dull in comparison)

A mockup example would be like this:



The one on top would be the standard, the one on the bottom is the Vivid mode. It cranks everything up to make the standard one (or any other TVs in the showroom) look bad, but in reality if you ever tried to watch something like that you'd be hating it because everything is so "off" in it.

On the LG OLED I'd recommend "Dark (Expert)" picture setting. For the Sony, anything like Movie or Standard mode would be good
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Old 05-06-2017, 10:44 PM   #30
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Thanks again for your patience and detailed advice.
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Old 05-10-2017, 05:12 PM   #31
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OLED easily stomps LCD. No contest.
Studio Ghibli + Blu-ray + OLED = PERFECTION

LG OLED 65B6P
Marantz PM8005 + NR1506
Klipsch RP-280F / RP-250C / RP-240S
Klipsch Sub-12 HG
Playstation 4
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Old 05-26-2017, 11:38 PM   #32
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Quote:
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OLED easily stomps LCD. No contest.
Maybe for you that is true but based on what others have said in this thread, there is a bit more too it than that.
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Old 05-30-2017, 03:52 PM   #33
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Sony - I'd go with a Sony.

LG is ok, but nothing special anymore. They are really dumbing down too much - sort of like Nintendo Japan anymore.

Sony is a picture that is really cool. I'd go with that; but that's just my personal preference.

I'd go with a Samsung second!
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Old 05-30-2017, 06:31 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by home888 View Post
Sony - I'd go with a Sony.

LG is ok, but nothing special anymore. They are really dumbing down too much - sort of like Nintendo Japan anymore.

Sony is a picture that is really cool. I'd go with that; but that's just my personal preference.

I'd go with a Samsung second!
For LCD/LED, I definitely agree; LG has been lacking behind and their TV's aren't anything special. For OLED, their TV's are still at the top (alongside the other OLED's). I believe LG is the one making the panels for Sony's OLED models.

It's more the technology itself than the manufacturer; Sony/Samsung make amazing LCD/LED models but the technology itself has some benefits and weaknesses compared to OLED
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Old 05-30-2017, 06:33 PM   #35
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For LCD/LED, I definitely agree; LG has been lacking behind and their TV's aren't anything special. For OLED, their TV's are still at the top (alongside the other OLED's). I believe LG is the one making the panels for Sony's OLED models.

It's more the technology itself than the manufacturer; Sony/Samsung make amazing LCD/LED models but the technology itself has some benefits and weaknesses compared to OLED

Quote:
Maybe for you that is true but based on what others have said in this thread, there is a bit more too it than that.
The big thing is how you watch it. If you're watching in a dark room, OLED wins hands down in my opinion (and most others). Once you see the backlighting on LCD, it's hard to un-see.. especially on a side by side with an OLED. In a room with some ambient light.. you don't really notice the backlighting but will notice the (much better) brightness in HDR scenes.
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Old 05-31-2017, 02:08 AM   #36
laoban laoban is offline
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Considering the X930E and C7 as well, thanks for all the info.
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Old 05-31-2017, 02:31 AM   #37
Robert Zohn Robert Zohn is offline
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Two ^^ great choices.
Home CinemaScope Sony VZ1000ES, Marantz AV8802A, Elite SC09, Def Tech UIW RLS II, DI6.5, IW Reference, Velodyne DD18, OPPO BDP-203, 9' 2:40 screen
Living Room Panasonic VX300 65" monitor, Marantz SR7010, Sony SSAR2 towers, center & rears, OPPO BDP-203
Dining Room LG 65" G7 OLED
Bed Room LG 65" B6 OLED, Denon AVR-X7200W, Def Tech DI6.5, Super Cube 8000 sub
Store Sony VW5000ES projector, Marantz AV8802A, 2 MM8077 amps, 7.2.4 Atmos system
Store every major manufacturer's flagship TV on display
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Old 06-01-2017, 09:38 PM   #38
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Both are great TV's. For me I like the OLED and the 3D.

The Sony's biggest advantage is brightness and 4k HDR. More specially in HDR, it will have less clipping in the brights and better Tone mapping. Also will likely have slightly better "above black" performance and an overall brighter picture across the board.

The LG's biggest advantage is the best 3D and the perfect blacks. It also nicely beats the SONY picture in regular blu-ray performance.

Although Sony will beat LG's in HDR. LG's have Dolby Vision, (and soon Sony) where the performance between the two will likely be very close because of DV's superior tone mapping.

There are also ways to tweak the performance of the HDR on the LG (at the player) to help with LG's poor Tone mapping to reduce Sony's HDR advantage.

If I had my pick of the top 2 TV's, I would pick the SONY ZD9 or the OLED E6.

Last edited by grodd; 06-01-2017 at 09:43 PM.
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