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Old 10-30-2012, 12:42 PM   #1
jhird2007 jhird2007 is offline
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Hello there,

I am looking to upgrade to a television between 55-65 inches. I am solely interested in the picture quality; not at all interested whether it has 3D, internet, etc.

My budget is 2000 GBP.

From many reviews, the Panasonic Viera ST50 is my best bet; however I've been reading that there are a lot of problems with this set regarding image retention and burn in.

Could someone guide me towards the best television for my needs?

Best regards,

Peter.
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Old 10-30-2012, 03:17 PM   #2
banibale banibale is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jhird2007 View Post
Hello there,

I am looking to upgrade to a television between 55-65 inches. I am solely interested in the picture quality; not at all interested whether it has 3D, internet, etc.

My budget is 2000 GBP.

From many reviews, the Panasonic Viera ST50 is my best bet; however I've been reading that there are a lot of problems with this set regarding image retention and burn in.

Could someone guide me towards the best television for my needs?

Best regards,

Peter.
The best picture quality for that price is the panasonic st50 65" or 60".... that's an amazing tv .
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Old 10-30-2012, 06:36 PM   #3
in2video2 in2video2 is offline
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Suggest you check into Samsung as well as a comparison. We went with Samsung after comparing both brands side by side and have had no issues with our plasma HDTV. Nothing beats seeing it with your own eyes.
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Old 10-30-2012, 06:51 PM   #4
My_Two_Cents My_Two_Cents is offline
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After being a loyal Panasonic plasma owner for 9+ years (on my 4th), I would recommend you look at Samsung. The IR on my GT60 is absolutely horrible, and is the first one I've ever had an issue with. I'm hearing the problems continue with some of the 2012 GT50's, too.
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Old 10-31-2012, 08:55 AM   #5
jhird2007 jhird2007 is offline
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Thanks for the response guys! I'm a total novice when it comes to this subject!

From the many reviews I have read it seems that Samsung are the flagship manufacturer of LED TV's while Panasonic is the way to go for plasma. The vast majority of articles I have read seem to suggest the Panasonic Plasma's are the benchmark whenever it comes to watching blu-rays. Just to reiterate my first point; I'm soley interested in the best display for viewing blu-ray.

in2video2 and My Two Cents; what range of Samsung's would you recommend I should read up on?
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Old 10-31-2012, 11:10 AM   #6
Steelmaker Steelmaker is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jhird2007 View Post
Thanks for the response guys! I'm a total novice when it comes to this subject!

From the many reviews I have read it seems that Samsung are the flagship manufacturer of LED TV's while Panasonic is the way to go for plasma. The vast majority of articles I have read seem to suggest the Panasonic Plasma's are the benchmark whenever it comes to watching blu-rays. Just to reiterate my first point; I'm soley interested in the best display for viewing blu-ray.

in2video2 and My Two Cents; what range of Samsung's would you recommend I should read up on?
The PQ between the 2012 Samsungs and Pannys are comparable. Both have strengths and weaknesses. The Pannys have slightly deeper blacks, better shadow detail, and a brighter screen. The Samsung has a sharper image, better video processing, more accurate colors, and better 3D. I've seen both and I would say the Panasonic has a more dynamic picture with more "pop" while the Samsung has a more accurate, real world cinematic picture. They are both amazing looking TV's, each with a different approach/philosophy to their pictures.

As far as reported problems with the sets, Pannys have been reported to have serious image retention/burn in issues and screen uniformity (dirty screen effect) issus. Samsungs have had reported issues with their sets giving off a buzzing
sound.

Having said that, the tie breaker for me was the image retention and burn in issues with the Pannys. I just didn't want to deal with that and the IR on the Samsungs are said not to be that bad at all.
"Live in your hopes, not in your fears."

Last edited by Steelmaker; 10-31-2012 at 11:21 AM.
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Old 11-01-2012, 09:53 AM   #7
jhird2007 jhird2007 is offline
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Thanks for the reply!

I'm planning to buy one for Christmas so there is still plenty of time to come up with a decision!
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Old 11-05-2012, 07:10 PM   #8
retrogamer1981 retrogamer1981 is offline
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To begin with, any plasma display could potentially have image retention problems if it is not properly "broken in" and calibrated. You absolutely must allow the phosphor trails and gas chambers on every plasma display to properly and evenly ignite and disperse to practically guarantee no permanent "burn in" or "image retention". To accomplish this just simply display HD content that fills the entire screen continuously for about 6 to 8 hours a day for the first 2 or 3 weeks that you own the plasma display.

In addition, I can't stress enough the importance of calibrating your display. Doing so, will not only significantly increase the life of your display by reducing the amount of energy it requires to operate, but it also ensures that you are experiencing the best and most accurate picture quality possible.

Secondly, I personally have experienced no image retention problems with the Panasonic vt50 or st50 models. Both of these models from Panasonic produce gorgeous picture quality and accuracy, with little to no problems to speak of.

If you are adamant about picture quality and performance from your home theater display, then I have four solid suggestions for you. From Panasonic either the PVT50 or the PST50. From Sharp the Elite PRO-X5FD; and finally from Samsung the PNE6500
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Old 11-05-2012, 07:49 PM   #9
Midnight Rambler Midnight Rambler is offline
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Ahh, the good old plasma IR and buzzing "issues".

This is nothing new and mainly a load of BS, perpetrated mostly by LCD makers and lovers.

If I were to be concerned about anything, it would be Samsung. They consistently use the bottom of the barrel when it comes to electronic components - for example, do some searching on their issues with poor capacitors.
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Old 11-05-2012, 09:12 PM   #10
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I have an LCD but I would probably go with a Panasonic or Samsung Plasma if I had to do it all over again although I like my Samsung LCD.
"Your intellect may be confused," Roger Ebert once wrote, "but your emotions will never lie to you." Physical media forever! When UHD Blu-ray comes lay of the DNR! TCM OAR
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Old 11-05-2012, 10:10 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jhird2007 View Post
Hello there,

I am looking to upgrade to a television between 55-65 inches. I am solely interested in the picture quality; not at all interested whether it has 3D, internet, etc.

My budget is 2000 GBP.

From many reviews, the Panasonic Viera ST50 is my best bet; however I've been reading that there are a lot of problems with this set regarding image retention and burn in.

Could someone guide me towards the best television for my needs?

Best regards,

Peter.
I have had my ST50 since July and have had 0 issues with image retention / burn in. This is an AMAZING TV!!! (65" BTW)
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Old 11-06-2012, 07:19 PM   #12
Steelmaker Steelmaker is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by retrogamer1981 View Post
To begin with, any plasma display could potentially have image retention problems if it is not properly "broken in" and calibrated. You absolutely must allow the phosphor trails and gas chambers on every plasma display to properly and evenly ignite and disperse to practically guarantee no permanent "burn in" or "image retention". To accomplish this just simply display HD content that fills the entire screen continuously for about 6 to 8 hours a day for the first 2 or 3 weeks that you own the plasma display.

In addition, I can't stress enough the importance of calibrating your display. Doing so, will not only significantly increase the life of your display by reducing the amount of energy it requires to operate, but it also ensures that you are experiencing the best and most accurate picture quality possible.

Secondly, I personally have experienced no image retention problems with the Panasonic vt50 or st50 models. Both of these models from Panasonic produce gorgeous picture quality and accuracy, with little to no problems to speak of.

If you are adamant about picture quality and performance from your home theater display, then I have four solid suggestions for you. From Panasonic either the PVT50 or the PST50. From Sharp the Elite PRO-X5FD; and finally from Samsung the PNE6500
I am glad you've had no problems with your TV's. However don't act like this is a complete non-issue. There are way too many people complaining about the Panasonic IR issues for it not to be. Also did you read the CNET article on their non intentional IR test between the Panny and the Samsung?

Also I'm going to say this again. If a break in period is a mandatory process in order to age the phosphors and make a television operate properly and protect it from IR/burn in, then it should absolutely be the manufacturer's responsibility to make it a part of the manufacturing process of that television! It should not be expected of the consumer to have to ONLY watch 16x9 content for 3 weeks after purchase, nor should it be expected of the consumer to run break in slides. The only thing a consumer should have to do is unbox the thing, plug it in and turn it on!

Another thing, not everyone has access to an ISF calibrator in their area. Again, why can't ISF calibrations be a part of the manufacturing process? I guess the THX modes on the Panny sets sort of addresses that but still. I think it's stupid for a consumer to pay thousands of dollars for a new TV and then on top of that pay 300-400 additional dollars just for someone to optimize the picture. It should come already shipped that way! All you need is a controlled lighting calibration and a bright room calibration that falls in line with whatever the industry standard measurements are.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that if a product runs the risk of damage due to someone simply buying it, turning on, and using it (not abusing it) something is wrong with that! I'm surprised there hasn't been more pressure put on the manufacturers to change the build process on plasmas to address this.
"Live in your hopes, not in your fears."

Last edited by Steelmaker; 11-06-2012 at 08:19 PM.
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Old 11-06-2012, 08:56 PM   #13
My_Two_Cents My_Two_Cents is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by retrogamer1981 View Post
To begin with, any plasma display could potentially have image retention problems if it is not properly "broken in" and calibrated. You absolutely must allow the phosphor trails and gas chambers on every plasma display to properly and evenly ignite and disperse to practically guarantee no permanent "burn in" or "image retention".
Quote:
Originally Posted by Midnight Rambler View Post
Ahh, the good old plasma IR and buzzing "issues".

Wrong. It's been reported and documented numerous times that "break-in" is only needed to evenly age the phosphors if you are wanting to get the best bang-for-your-buck with a professional calibration. It makes zero difference in terms of IR propensity.

This is nothing new and mainly a load of BS, perpetrated mostly by LCD makers and lovers.
While I use to agree wholeheartedly with statements like this, I've had to change my tune lately due to the horrible IR my GT30 exhibits. While it's only visible on light-colored screens, it's there and is a b!tch to get rid of (but does eventually diminish). I hate to recommend Samsung over Panasonic due to generally lower quality of Samsung products, but if Panasonic doesn't do something to address the IR problems, I'll have to seriously consider another brand for my next set. Hopefully by then, OLED will be mainstream, and we'll have the "perfect display".
PSN: ricshoe64

Vizio M70-D3 | Marantz SR7010 | Panasonic DMP-BD110 | Samsung UBD-KM85C
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Old 11-06-2012, 08:57 PM   #14
My_Two_Cents My_Two_Cents is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by retrogamer1981 View Post
To begin with, any plasma display could potentially have image retention problems if it is not properly "broken in" and calibrated. You absolutely must allow the phosphor trails and gas chambers on every plasma display to properly and evenly ignite and disperse to practically guarantee no permanent "burn in" or "image retention".
Wrong. It's been reported and documented numerous times that "break-in" is only needed to evenly age the phosphors if you are wanting to get the best bang-for-your-buck with a professional calibration. It makes zero difference in terms of IR propensity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Midnight Rambler View Post
Ahh, the good old plasma IR and buzzing "issues".

This is nothing new and mainly a load of BS, perpetrated mostly by LCD makers and lovers.
While I use to agree wholeheartedly with statements like this, I've had to change my tune lately due to the horrible IR my GT30 exhibits. While it's only visible on light-colored screens, it's there and is a b!tch to get rid of (but does eventually diminish). I hate to recommend Samsung over Panasonic due to generally lower quality of Samsung products, but if Panasonic doesn't do something to address the IR problems, I'll have to seriously consider another brand for my next set. Hopefully by then, OLED will be mainstream, and we'll have the "perfect display".
PSN: ricshoe64

Vizio M70-D3 | Marantz SR7010 | Panasonic DMP-BD110 | Samsung UBD-KM85C
APC H15 | XBox One | Sony PS4
Axiom M80's & VP-180 | Carver Cinema 5.1 surrounds | BIC Accoustech H100

My A/V cabinet build / DIY thread
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Old 11-14-2012, 05:45 PM   #15
ObiWanShinobi ObiWanShinobi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by My_Two_Cents View Post
While I use to agree wholeheartedly with statements like this, I've had to change my tune lately due to the horrible IR my GT30 exhibits. While it's only visible on light-colored screens, it's there and is a b!tch to get rid of (but does eventually diminish). I hate to recommend Samsung over Panasonic due to generally lower quality of Samsung products, but if Panasonic doesn't do something to address the IR problems, I'll have to seriously consider another brand for my next set. Hopefully by then, OLED will be mainstream, and we'll have the "perfect display".
I have the 55" GT30 (that came with 2 pairs of glasses and Avatar 3D) and "bad IR" must be an issue with specific sets or perhaps people are getting lemons.

I'm not saying my set is immune to IR because it certainly isn't but it doesnt last long at all and goes away in what seems like seconds or at the most a couple of minutes.

The worst IR I noticed on mine was when I watched Tron Legacy and paused the TV for about 5 minutes. I came back and accidently hit "STOP" instead of "PLAY" to start the movie back up and when I did the screen went black and I noticed the IR but as I mentioned, it didn't last very long at all and everything went back to norm in no time.

Plasmas are finnicky like that, or so I've heard. Can minor to bad IR have something to do with the temperature of the room its in?....I've even heard some people say that Plasma performance can vary depending on what altitude youre at, as in if your in a area of high elevation that THAT can have something to do with its performance. Anyone else heard of this?
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Old 11-14-2012, 06:11 PM   #16
My_Two_Cents My_Two_Cents is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ObiWanShinobi View Post
I have the 55" GT30 (that came with 2 pairs of glasses and Avatar 3D) and "bad IR" must be an issue with specific sets or perhaps people are getting lemons.

I'm not saying my set is immune to IR because it certainly isn't but it doesnt last long at all and goes away in what seems like seconds or at the most a couple of minutes.

The worst IR I noticed on mine was when I watched Tron Legacy and paused the TV for about 5 minutes. I came back and accidently hit "STOP" instead of "PLAY" to start the movie back up and when I did the screen went black and I noticed the IR but as I mentioned, it didn't last very long at all and everything went back to norm in no time.

Plasmas are finnicky like that, or so I've heard. Can minor to bad IR have something to do with the temperature of the room its in?....I've even heard some people say that Plasma performance can vary depending on what altitude youre at, as in if your in a area of high elevation that THAT can have something to do with its performance. Anyone else heard of this?
Let me clarify even further:

I see minor IR occasionally from paused screens or title screens, and that goes away pretty quickly (as I've always experienced with plasma). My problem is with static bright HUDs from video games. My first problem was with the inventory slots in Minecraft. I then noticed bad IR from the HUDs in Borderlands 2, and now Assassin's Creed 2 (and I expect Halo 4 IR to start pretty soon). None of this IR has ever NOT gone away. It just takes a long time for it to happen. I haven't played Borderlands 2 in weeks, yet the IR is still very faintly there (noticeable only on a bright, light-colored screen).

Now, most of the viewing this set gets is with video gaming, with perhaps a couple hours per week of movie/TV viewing, so there is not a lot of "other" content to balance-out the gaming and wash-out the IR. I understand that, but I never had this issue with my other plasmas, and they were used in much the same way.

My solution, which seems to help speed-up the IR removal is to run a set of white noise/static slides in a loop whenever the set is not being used for awhile. This is what has helped rid the Borderlands 2 IR, and has helped keep the AC3 IR to a minimum. While this seems to help, I don't feel I should have to do this on a $2K piece of equipment.

And no, temperature/altitude does not play a factor (for me).
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Old 11-14-2012, 06:26 PM   #17
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All I know is you can have my Sony Widescreen Tube and Pioneer Kuro when you remove them from my cold, dead hands!
Modern
Panasonic TC-P65ZT60 TV
Pioneer BDP-85FD Blu-Ray
Pioneer SC-67 Receiver
Old School
Pioneer Kuro PDP-5020FD TV
Pioneer HLD-X9 Laserdisc Player
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Old 11-14-2012, 06:26 PM   #18
ObiWanShinobi ObiWanShinobi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by My_Two_Cents View Post
Let me clarify even further:

I see minor IR occasionally from paused screens or title screens, and that goes away pretty quickly (as I've always experienced with plasma). My problem is with static bright HUDs from video games. My first problem was with the inventory slots in Minecraft. I then noticed bad IR from the HUDs in Borderlands 2, and now Assassin's Creed 2 (and I expect Halo 4 IR to start pretty soon). None of this IR has ever NOT gone away. It just takes a long time for it to happen. I haven't played Borderlands 2 in weeks, yet the IR is still very faintly there (noticeable only on a bright, light-colored screen).
Now, most of the viewing this set gets is with video gaming, with perhaps a couple hours per week of movie/TV viewing, so there is not a lot of "other" content to balance-out the gaming and wash-out the IR. I understand that, but I never had this issue with my other plasmas, and they were used in much the same way.

My solution, which seems to help speed-up the IR removal is to run a set of white noise/static slides in a loop whenever the set is not being used for awhile. This is what has helped rid the Borderlands 2 IR, and has helped keep the AC3 IR to a minimum. While this seems to help, I don't feel I should have to do this on a $2K piece of equipment.

And no, temperature/altitude does not play a factor (for me).
My plasma is used exclusively for videogames and movies...not TV watching at all.

See, I do ALOT of gaming on mine as well and 90% of the games I play are first person shooters (and the remaining 10% being action adventure like God of War, Assassins Creed, Ratchet and Clank) that have HUDs and such (Halo games, Killzone 2 and 3, Call of Duty, Battlefield, and I'm currently playing Doom 3 BFG edition) and I can honestly say I've yet to have an issue with IR from videogames....only movies I've put on pause with extremely bright lights or objects. Even playing games like God of War III that have brightly lit healthbars and such that are always in a fixed position havent given me noticeable issues and I tend to spend around 2 to 3 hours in one sitting. Or how about Skyrim?...I KNOW I've sat down with that game for 6+ hour sessions at a time and I've experienced no problems.

For some, perhaps this is an issue with calibration? Contrast or brightness being to high? Its just odd to me...because even people with the SAME exact set as me will complain of IR this and that and I'm simply NOT having it with my set. Either its calibration problems, an issue with the set itself, or something else...but it seems with plasma TVs, what will affect one person will not affect the other. Experiences seem to vary with most.

Last edited by ObiWanShinobi; 11-14-2012 at 06:29 PM.
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Old 11-14-2012, 06:28 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by retrogamer1981 View Post
...
If you are adamant about picture quality and performance from your home theater display, then I have four solid suggestions for you. From Panasonic either the PVT50 or the PST50. From Sharp the Elite PRO-X5FD...
Which company inherited the Kuro technology from Pioneer?
Modern
Panasonic TC-P65ZT60 TV
Pioneer BDP-85FD Blu-Ray
Pioneer SC-67 Receiver
Old School
Pioneer Kuro PDP-5020FD TV
Pioneer HLD-X9 Laserdisc Player
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Old 11-16-2012, 03:48 AM   #20
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Quote:
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Which company inherited the Kuro technology from Pioneer?
panasonic but I'm pretty sure they don't use it.
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