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Go Back   Blu-ray Forum > Audio > Subwoofers


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Old 12-31-2011, 11:56 PM   #1841
AJCxZ0 AJCxZ0 is offline
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Default The Dark Sub Rises

For reasons unknown, my userid is deleted a day or so after I create it and I have had no response to messages or emails to the administrator. This is my first post, so I have no idea what will happen to it when the account dissappears again.

I read every post in every one of the 92 pages in this thread, so I have no good excuse for any cluelessness which follows, though I blame my camera phone for the poor pictures. Click on the images to see the large original.

Based on the advice in the thread I decided to try to build my own riser / bass trap / isolator for my Costco special front-firing 10" 120W KLH "KSUB-10" (similar to the ASW10-120) which I have pollyfilled and port-stuffed. Lacking carpentry skills I decided to construct something which eliminated the furniture component and effectively provided height, dampening and isolation in one.

First I got a 20"x14"x4" cardboard box ($0) and stuffed it with two old pillows ($0), taping the edges to prevent the pillows from bursting out. I then wrapped it in "easyLiner" 20"x48" drawer liner ($7.08 from Lowes) which fit nicely around the box to make a firm box full of dense foam with a semi-gloss non slip surface on which my sub sat stably, raised about 4" above its former position on my hearth next to my home theater electronics on their wire shelving (which is great for ventilation and avoiding dust buildup).

This Mark 1 riser had an astonishing effect of the quality of the bass. It went from being primarily a rumble box good for movies to a clear and distinct low extension of my speakers down to its drop-off around 30Hz, substantially assisted by the Pioneer Elite VSX-94TXH and its MCACC calibration.

Satisfied that the Mark 1 ($7.04) was working well and in no obvious need of improvement, I set about designing the Mark 2. The goal was the same: to raise with dampening material which would provide isolation. Scouting Lowes I saw a box of "greenfiber R13-R60" insulation material ($10.75 from Lowes) weighing approx. 14.5 lbs in a 24"x15.5"x12" block.

I wrapped this in a black plastic trash bag ($0) for aesthetics and to ensure the thin plastic which wrapped the fiber remained intact.

Next I wrapped the drawer liner ($7.08) around it taping the sides where it did not properly fit.

To my ear - being the only measuring device employed - the Mark 2 ($17.83) is a small improvement on the Mark 1 sound and is probably near to the best performance I am likely to get out of this old, cheap ($99, IIRC) sub. On the other hand, the dimensions are less convenient than the Mark 1 since it extends too far out from the wall, required the sub to move aside to clear the TV and the liner doesn't fit around the sides. I plan to replace the liner with some black felt to give a fully matte finish.

Critical feedback on both the design goal and implementation and suggestions for a Mark 3 would be most welcome.

Thank you again to Big Daddy and all the contributors to this thread.

[Edited to replace missing image links with run-on sentences. Sorry.]

Last edited by AJCxZ0; 12-21-2012 at 08:14 PM.
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Old 01-02-2012, 06:26 AM   #1842
Nick The Slick Nick The Slick is offline
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Decided to make another riser because the first one didn't look very good, was too large for my limited space, and i wanted to experiment with the open face design. I must say i'm pleased with the results (both aesthetically and SQ wise).

[Show spoiler]

Here are the materials for the frame. I used 2x2's and 1/4" MDF board for the base, bought and cut at Home Depot~



The frame completed with base. 1'2" tall, 11" wide, and 13" deep. Fits perfectly in the space i have to put my sub.



Frame covered with a polyester material i got from Hobby Lobby. It didn't specifically say speaker grill material but it sure looks and feels like it.



Attached the same Super Slider feet i used on the last one, these things work great for isolation. Also note the logo, i was so pleased with how good it turned out i had to give it a "name" brand, haha.



I decided to ditch the foam and go with Kareface's idea somewhat. I didn't want to use the fiberglass though so i remembered this Acousta-Stuf Big Daddy mentioned in one of his posts. Amazing stuff by the way, used it in this riser, my dads riser, and mine and my dads subs and the results are well worth the $10 per 1lb bag (or $44 for 5lb bag which is what i bought).



And finally the complete thing, sub and all. The top is the same Elmers stiff board i used on the last one. This time however i took the old blanket i did have folded up on top and cut it up and stapled it to the board to make it look cleaner and more "professional" (or something like that lol).


Overall very satisfied. Can't say the open faced design made a HUGE improvement, but it does sound better than the closed box. I think if i make any more in the future this will definitely be the way i do it. Very light weight, sturdy, and looks and sounds amazing. Now to rock on and enjoy it!
My Current Setup:
Receiver:
Onkyo TX-NR818 Amps: Crown XLS 1500 (Mains), Dayton Audio SA230 (Sub) Display: BenQ W1070 on Elite Screens Silver Frame series 84" Front L/R Speakers: Polk Audio Monitor 70's Center Speaker: Polk Audio CS2 Rear L/R Speakers: Polk Audio Monitor 30's Sub: 1 DIY 12 Inch Sealed sub Blu-Ray/Gaming/Music/TV: Custom built desktop computer
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Old 01-02-2012, 08:25 AM   #1843
Aerodude73 Aerodude73 is offline
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Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick The Slick View Post
Decided to make another riser because the first one didn't look very good, was too large for my limited space, and i wanted to experiment with the open face design. I must say i'm pleased with the results (both aesthetically and SQ wise).

[Show spoiler]

Here are the materials for the frame. I used 2x2's and 1/4" MDF board for the base, bought and cut at Home Depot~



The frame completed with base. 1'2" tall, 11" wide, and 13" deep. Fits perfectly in the space i have to put my sub.



Frame covered with a polyester material i got from Hobby Lobby. It didn't specifically say speaker grill material but it sure looks and feels like it.



Attached the same Super Slider feet i used on the last one, these things work great for isolation. Also note the logo, i was so pleased with how good it turned out i had to give it a "name" brand, haha.



I decided to ditch the foam and go with Kareface's idea somewhat. I didn't want to use the fiberglass though so i remembered this Acousta-Stuf Big Daddy mentioned in one of his posts. Amazing stuff by the way, used it in this riser, my dads riser, and mine and my dads subs and the results are well worth the $10 per 1lb bag (or $44 for 5lb bag which is what i bought).



And finally the complete thing, sub and all. The top is the same Elmers stiff board i used on the last one. This time however i took the old blanket i did have folded up on top and cut it up and stapled it to the board to make it look cleaner and more "professional" (or something like that lol).


Overall very satisfied. Can't say the open faced design made a HUGE improvement, but it does sound better than the closed box. I think if i make any more in the future this will definitely be the way i do it. Very light weight, sturdy, and looks and sounds amazing. Now to rock on and enjoy it!
Excellent job Again!!
POLK AUDIO: "LIVE IT, BREATHE IT, LOVE IT, BELIEVE IT!"
TV: 70" SHARP 3D/LC-70UQ17U - POLK AUDIO - "7.2" / Center: CS2 - Front: RTiA5's
Surrounds: FXi A6's (Sides), FXiA3's (Rears) - 2 Onkyo SKH-410 DOLBY ATMOS Spkrs / Subs: 2 PA-120's
ONKYO TX-NR838: DOLBY ATMOS (Ready) - Emotiva XPA-3/Gen 2 - OPPO BDP-103D
DirecTV: HR-44 HD-DVR - Remote: Harmony ONE
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Old 01-05-2012, 02:41 AM   #1844
BIG INJUN CHIEF BIG INJUN CHIEF is offline
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Nov 2011
Pittsburgh
Default Sub risers-please assist

My original intent was to build risers for much larger subs. I had planned on purchasing 2 ed a2-300's, then moved to Outlaw LFM-and ended up with 2 PSW505's. I apologize as I had pics of the initial build but they were lost due to alcohol consumption.

MATERIALS
HOME DEPOT
1-4'X4' MDF $8
1-2X10X8 $7.75
1-4X4X12 $11
12-L-BRACKETS $.58 each
80LBS CONCRETE $1.75 (bag partially torn)
RUBBER BACKED CARPET-scavenged from my ofc remodel
BIG LOTS
4x8 AUTO CARPET $8

RISERS
14"X17"24"-100LBS EACH



RISERS
First coat of spray
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Old 01-05-2012, 02:44 AM   #1845
BIG INJUN CHIEF BIG INJUN CHIEF is offline
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I filled each riser with concrete and this will force a re-spray. Made a bit more of a mess than anticipated.

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Old 01-05-2012, 02:51 AM   #1846
BIG INJUN CHIEF BIG INJUN CHIEF is offline
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Default

I then placed a few pieces of rubber backed carpet that was scavenged from my office remodel and secured the concrete with a brace.

In addition, I glued rubber backed carpet to the platform. I intend to cover the platform with auto grade carpet. This is were I would like a bit of assistance please. I hope to staple the carpet over the platform. I have never used this or any type of carpet. Would it be wise to also glue the auto carpet in addition to stapling? Please assist. Any comments or suggestions are welcome.



I will also place a few pieces of the carpet on the bottom of each leg.
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Old 01-05-2012, 04:36 AM   #1847
Big Daddy Big Daddy is offline
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Good job BIG INJUN CHIEF.
HT Room: Panasonic PT-AE8000, Epson 1080UB Proj., Mitsubishi 65" Diamond Series HD TV, Yamaha-RX-A3010 Rec., CinePro 6-Ch. Amp. (350 W/Ch, 8 Ohm), Proton D1200 Amp., Behringer EP4000 & EPX3000 Amps., Oppo BDP-83, Sony BDP-S790, Audio Technica Tuntable, Mitsubishi S-VHS, 2 Def. Tech. Super Towers w 15" subs, 1 Def. Tech. Center & 1 Martin-Logan Center, 2 Def. Tech. Surr. & 2 PSB Surr., 2 Cadence Presence, 2 Bose 901 Rears, 2 Modified HSU 12" Subs, 1 ED DIY 12" Sub, 1 ED DIY 15" Sub, Velodyne SMS-1 Subwoofer Equalizer, DirecTV HD, Monster HTS 5000 & APC H15 Power Conditioners.
Two-Channel Room: XiangSheng Tube Preamp., Carver TFM-45 Amp. (375 W/Ch), Behringer EPX4000 Amp., Onkyo CD player, Denon Turntable, Yamaha Tuner, 2 Vintage Polk RTA-15TL Speakers, 2 LCY 100 Super Tweeters, 2 DIY Folded Horn Super Towers with 15" Sub., 1 Modified AA HD-SUB12
Family Room: Mitsubishi 73" Diamond Series TV, Yamaha DSP-A3090 Rec., DirecTV HD-DVR, PS3, Zvox Speaker, 1 DIY 12" Sub.
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Old 01-05-2012, 12:36 PM   #1848
BDS23420 BDS23420 is offline
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How important is it to have a Riser for your sub?!
Television - NS-55DR710NA17
AVR - S530BT 5.2
Main Speakers - PSB Image B6
Center - PSB Image C5
Surrounds - Polk Audio T15
Subwoofer - BIC America F12
4K Blu-ray Player - Xbox One S
Xbox 360 - gamertag - BDS23420
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Old 01-05-2012, 08:59 PM   #1849
BIG INJUN CHIEF BIG INJUN CHIEF is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Daddy View Post
Good job BIG INJUN CHIEF.
Thank you VERY much for sharing the knowledge!!!!! You are quite the inspiration.
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Old 01-05-2012, 09:29 PM   #1850
darkpoet25 darkpoet25 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BDS23420 View Post
How important is it to have a Riser for your sub?!
While not overly important, it does help. By raising your subwoofer, it can help increase response, and tighten the bass. Flooring and carpeting can absorb some of the lower frequencies. Taking a look at your gallery and seeing your BIC subwoofer, I noticed the port is on the lower back end.(Much like my Velodyne.) There are the ones at the beginning of the thread that Big Daddy has links to that you can buy pre-made, or you can go the DIY route. It will take some time but try going back and reading some of the posts on here and it will give you an idea of what to expect with a Sub riser. I have pics in my gallery of my own build too.
Cliff
LG 42LN5300, PS3-160GB, PS4-500GB, Sony UBP-X800, JVC VCR(which still works), Yamaha RX-A700, Velodyne VX-11, Ascend Acoustics CBM-170's(L/R) and CMT-340C, Athena AS-B1's for surrounds.
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Old 01-05-2012, 11:28 PM   #1851
Big Daddy Big Daddy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AJCxZ0 View Post
[Show spoiler]For reasons unknown, my userid is deleted a day or so after I create it and I have had no response to messages or emails to the administrator. This is my first post, so I have no idea what will happen to it when the account dissappears again.
[Show spoiler]

I read every post in every one of the 92 pages in this thread, so I have no good excuse for any cluelessness which follows, though I blame my camera phone for the poor pictures. Click on the images to see the large original.

Based on the advice in the thread I decided to try to build my own riser / bass trap / isolator for my Costco special front-firing 10" 120W KLH "KSUB-10" (similar to the ASW10-120) which I have pollyfilled and port-stuffed. Lacking carpentry skills I decided to construct something which eliminated the furniture component and effectively provided height, dampening and isolation in one.

First I got a 20"x14"x4" cardboard box ($0) and stuffed it with two old pillows ($0), taping the edges to prevent the pillows from bursting out. I then wrapped it in "easyLiner" 20"x48" drawer liner ($7.08 from Lowes)



which fit nicely around the box



to make a firm box full of dense foam with a semi-gloss non slip surface



on which my sub sat stably, raised about 4" above its former position on my hearth



next to my home theater electronics on their wire shelving (which is great for ventilation and avoiding dust buildup).



This Mark 1 riser had an astonishing effect of the quality of the bass. It went from being primarily a rumble box good for movies to a clear and distinct low extension of my speakers down to its drop-off around 30Hz, substantially assisted by the Pioneer Elite VSX-94TXH and its MCACC calibration.

Satisfied that the Mark 1 ($7.04) was working well and in no obvious need of improvement, I set about designing the Mark 2. The goal was the same: to raise with dampening material which would provide isolation. Scouting Lowes I saw a box of "greenfiber R13-R60" insulation material ($10.75 from Lowes) weighing approx. 14.5 lbs in a 24"x15.5"x12" block.



I wrapped this in a black plastic trash bag ($0) for aesthetics and to ensure the thin plastic which wrapped the fiber remained intact.





Next I wrapped the drawer liner ($7.08) around it



taping the sides where it did not properly fit.



To my ear - being the only measuring device employed - the Mark 2 ($17.83) is a small improvement on the Mark 1 sound and is probably near to the best performance I am likely to get out of this old, cheap ($99, IIRC) sub. On the other hand, the dimensions are less convenient than the Mark 1 since it extends too far out from the wall, required the sub to move aside to clear the TV and the liner doesn't fit around the sides. I plan to replace the liner with some black felt to give a fully matte finish.

Critical feedback on both the design goal and implementation and suggestions for a Mark 3 would be most welcome.

Thank you again to Big Daddy and all the contributors to this thread.
Good job on the riser.
HT Room: Panasonic PT-AE8000, Epson 1080UB Proj., Mitsubishi 65" Diamond Series HD TV, Yamaha-RX-A3010 Rec., CinePro 6-Ch. Amp. (350 W/Ch, 8 Ohm), Proton D1200 Amp., Behringer EP4000 & EPX3000 Amps., Oppo BDP-83, Sony BDP-S790, Audio Technica Tuntable, Mitsubishi S-VHS, 2 Def. Tech. Super Towers w 15" subs, 1 Def. Tech. Center & 1 Martin-Logan Center, 2 Def. Tech. Surr. & 2 PSB Surr., 2 Cadence Presence, 2 Bose 901 Rears, 2 Modified HSU 12" Subs, 1 ED DIY 12" Sub, 1 ED DIY 15" Sub, Velodyne SMS-1 Subwoofer Equalizer, DirecTV HD, Monster HTS 5000 & APC H15 Power Conditioners.
Two-Channel Room: XiangSheng Tube Preamp., Carver TFM-45 Amp. (375 W/Ch), Behringer EPX4000 Amp., Onkyo CD player, Denon Turntable, Yamaha Tuner, 2 Vintage Polk RTA-15TL Speakers, 2 LCY 100 Super Tweeters, 2 DIY Folded Horn Super Towers with 15" Sub., 1 Modified AA HD-SUB12
Family Room: Mitsubishi 73" Diamond Series TV, Yamaha DSP-A3090 Rec., DirecTV HD-DVR, PS3, Zvox Speaker, 1 DIY 12" Sub.
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Old 01-06-2012, 02:10 AM   #1852
BDS23420 BDS23420 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darkpoet25 View Post
While not overly important, it does help. By raising your subwoofer, it can help increase response, and tighten the bass. Flooring and carpeting can absorb some of the lower frequencies. Taking a look at your gallery and seeing your BIC subwoofer, I noticed the port is on the lower back end.(Much like my Velodyne.) There are the ones at the beginning of the thread that Big Daddy has links to that you can buy pre-made, or you can go the DIY route. It will take some time but try going back and reading some of the posts on here and it will give you an idea of what to expect with a Sub riser. I have pics in my gallery of my own build too.
awesome....thanks for the help man!
Television - NS-55DR710NA17
AVR - S530BT 5.2
Main Speakers - PSB Image B6
Center - PSB Image C5
Surrounds - Polk Audio T15
Subwoofer - BIC America F12
4K Blu-ray Player - Xbox One S
Xbox 360 - gamertag - BDS23420
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Old 01-06-2012, 02:16 AM   #1853
darkpoet25 darkpoet25 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BDS23420 View Post
awesome....thanks for the help man!
Sure thing, no problem.
Cliff
LG 42LN5300, PS3-160GB, PS4-500GB, Sony UBP-X800, JVC VCR(which still works), Yamaha RX-A700, Velodyne VX-11, Ascend Acoustics CBM-170's(L/R) and CMT-340C, Athena AS-B1's for surrounds.
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Old 01-08-2012, 04:13 AM   #1854
BIG INJUN CHIEF BIG INJUN CHIEF is offline
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I have finally competed construction and set-up of the riser.

I will violate a personal rule and pull the grills off the PSW505 (ugly driver) only to show I painted the face plate to match (sorta) the polk monitors.
UGLY DRIVER (sounds ok but uggggg'lee).
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Old 01-08-2012, 04:18 AM   #1855
BIG INJUN CHIEF BIG INJUN CHIEF is offline
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A few additional photos of the entire basement system. I am now off to further educate myself with respect to acoustic treatments and projectors.



. Apologies for the photos as I suspect the lens in the camera is a bit dirty.
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Old 01-09-2012, 01:13 PM   #1856
troyus troyus is offline
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The thing is, how does it sound?
Panasonic 54V20A
PS3 Slim BD Player
Onkyo 607 AV Reciever
Front speakers Jensen QX-45
Center speaker Jensen QX-65
Surround speakers Jensen QX-15
2xSubwoofers Jensen QX-85
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Old 01-09-2012, 09:20 PM   #1857
BIG INJUN CHIEF BIG INJUN CHIEF is offline
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Clean and very tight. I have yet to re-run YPAO, but I did knock a few dbs off from the receiver. For a budget system I am very pleased. Amazing thread!!! I am now researching acoustic treatments and considering a projector. The display is rather small (50") for the space.
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Old 01-10-2012, 02:54 PM   #1858
smeesmay smeesmay is offline
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just got mine built, actually had a nice heavy duty wood cube from goodwill that ran me 2 bucks. Filled that up with about 30 tightly compacted sheets and material (all free from girlfriend parents new house where it was left) and a can of spray enamel I picked up on sale for .68 cents. So i have a $2.68 cent sub riser that is incredible. The bass is tighter, rattles are almost nonexistent and it just looks clean. Although I did not take the time to post any pics of the build (unfortunately), Ill shoot one tonight of the riser in place. Thanks everyone!
"A smart man knows his limits
A great man knows he has none"---Court Dog
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Old 01-10-2012, 05:15 PM   #1859
GrJfer GrJfer is offline
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG INJUN CHIEF View Post
A few additional photos of the entire basement system. I am now off to further educate myself with respect to acoustic treatments and projectors.



. Apologies for the photos as I suspect the lens in the camera is a bit dirty.
Great Job on the risers, and love the boxer pup. I have 2 brindle's.
Denon AVR-891
Panasonic DMP-BDT210
Samsung UN60D6400UF
SVS SCS-02(M) L/C/R
SBS-02 BOOKSHELFS SURROUNDS
PC12-NSD SUBWOOFER

HITECH REDNECK
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Old 01-10-2012, 09:56 PM   #1860
BIG INJUN CHIEF BIG INJUN CHIEF is offline
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Thanks for the kind words. He assisted a great deal throughout the construction process . No house is complete without a least one Boxer IMHO.
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