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Old 10-07-2011, 10:14 PM   #301
Jimmy Smith Jimmy Smith is offline
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I would much rather believe in a Higher Power, and find out there is none
than NOT believing in a Higher Power, and find out there is ONE!
Pascales wager

Problem this is that any higher power that reads your thoughts your whole life would be able to see through belief that is only made out of fearing the consequences. Not to mention any being worth spending eternity with would not punish you for reasonable skeptisim. Plus wouldn't worshiping the wrong higher power be more dangerous then worshiping none?
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Old 10-07-2011, 10:14 PM   #302
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This is just pathetic for fanboys of anything. All discussion must be positive and everyone who posts any critisim is stomping on our fun.

Im passionately defending science against all made-up stories that masquerade as science

My beef with this show is the same beef I have with Creationism, psychic readings, blurry photos of monsters that anyone could have made, all manner of made up nonsense.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Im a passionate skeptic more then anything else
We need people like you, skeptics are what keeps people determined to keep searching!
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Old 10-07-2011, 10:22 PM   #303
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We need people like you, skeptics are what keeps people determined to keep searching!
Believing it or not I do keep an open mind. I just require more evidence then "I don't know how they did it therefore aliens helped them"

When someone comes out with real evidence of alien visitation, or bigfoot, or psychic readings I will embrace it with arms wide open and admitt I was wrong. A body of bigfoot or psychic predictions that are too good to be lucky guesses. Thats how science works. As evidence expands theory's change

Just like you can disprove evolution with a fossil rabbit in Cambrian rock you can easily disprove conventional explainations with an alien skeleton or some peice of alien technology left behind by these visitors. Something real that can be studied. Yet Ive watched this show and Ive seen nothing like that. Just made up stories to fill in gaps in our knowledge. It doesn't cut it for me
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Old 10-07-2011, 10:23 PM   #304
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I just think that if people can have faith in a religion, then they can have faith in there being more than just us in this never ending expanse.

And if someones belief in Aliens is as strong as someones belief in God I don't see why they should be ridiculed for what they belive in.

But thats just the way I see it
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Old 10-07-2011, 10:33 PM   #305
rickah88 rickah88 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy Smith View Post
This is just pathetic for fanboys of anything. All discussion must be positive and everyone who posts any critisim is stomping on our fun.
Im passionately defending science against all made-up stories that masquerade as science

My beef with this show is the same beef I have with Creationism, psychic readings, blurry photos of monsters that anyone could have made, all manner of made up nonsense.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Im a passionate skeptic more then anything else
Do you take such a stance in real life, or are you just a keyboard warrior?
So you go to weddings and bring up reasons why the couple should not wed?
You go to the chess club and talk about checkers?
You go to a basketball court and bring a football?
Why not just start your own thread about all the counterpoints towards Ancient Aliens and start amassing your followers, as has been the intention of this thread.
Or, tow the line and continue to post in a thread you have no interest in...it's your time.
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Old 10-07-2011, 10:33 PM   #306
rickah88 rickah88 is offline
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Originally Posted by Jimmy Smith View Post
Pascales wager

Problem this is that any higher power that reads your thoughts your whole life would be able to see through belief that is only made out of fearing the consequences. Not to mention any being worth spending eternity with would not punish you for reasonable skeptisim. Plus wouldn't worshiping the wrong higher power be more dangerous then worshiping none?
Can you base any of this on scientific fact?
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Old 10-07-2011, 10:36 PM   #307
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Originally Posted by Jimmy Smith View Post
Believing it or not I do keep an open mind. I just require more evidence then "I don't know how they did it therefore aliens helped them"

When someone comes out with real evidence of alien visitation, or bigfoot, or psychic readings I will embrace it with arms wide open and admitt I was wrong. A body of bigfoot or psychic predictions that are too good to be lucky guesses. Thats how science works. As evidence expands theory's change

Just like you can disprove evolution with a fossil rabbit in Cambrian rock you can easily disprove conventional explainations with an alien skeleton or some peice of alien technology left behind by these visitors. Something real that can be studied. Yet Ive watched this show and Ive seen nothing like that. Just made up stories to fill in gaps in our knowledge. It doesn't cut it for me
I don't argue against the fact these shows don't offer up solid evidence. The only things we can go by are tribal stories that have been passed down, and biblical texts dating back 1000s of years.

As for Alien fossils or remains, I doubt that would ever be found. Unless you count Roswell. But thats a whole new subject.

On Ancient Aliens, I find that when you have founding fathers describing visions and seeing "green skins" I like to think they have some credability. It's not as if they would just make this stuff up for the fun of it.

I belive we have lost ancient knowledge that was perhaps beyond what we know today in certain respects. A lot of these cultures had a great understanding of the stars, and math.

Maybe the answers we need aren't in the sky, but below the oceans. We know much more about other planets than we do about whats below our oceans. I would like to see exploration of our deepest oceans to see what has been covered by sea. Maybe that's where all the answers lie.
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Old 10-07-2011, 10:37 PM   #308
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Originally Posted by Mavrick View Post
I just think that if people can have faith in a religion, then they can have faith in there being more than just us in this never ending expanse.

And if someones belief in Aliens is as strong as someones belief in God I don't see why they should be ridiculed for what they belive in.

But thats just the way I see it
This.

If you think about it, believing in "god" is just as (what most see) silly. A being with superpowers who can do all these things and created life. Yet we can't see him, and the only way we know about him is through stories from other people? Oh yes, but when it comes to more than half the world seeing things in the sky that can't be explained, suddenly they're nuts.

Like the show's intentions, just think about the concept of god himself. A being with superpowers (at least compared to what we know our race to be) who had the ability to create life as we know it. Never heard of/seen a human possess said powers, let alone create a whole new species of life. There's more evidence for the notion of ancient aliens throughout the world in places like Egypt, Peru, Meixco, etc. than there is for god himself.
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Old 10-07-2011, 10:40 PM   #309
Mavrick Mavrick is offline
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Originally Posted by rickah88 View Post
Do you take such a stance in real life, or are you just a keyboard warrior?
So you go to weddings and bring up reasons why the couple should not wed?
You go to the chess club and talk about checkers?
You go to a basketball court and bring a football?
Why not just start your own thread about all the counterpoints towards Ancient Aliens and start amassing your followers, as has been the intention of this thread.
Or, tow the line and continue to post in a thread you have no interest in...it's your time.
This is brilliant!
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Old 10-07-2011, 10:53 PM   #310
Mavrick Mavrick is offline
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This.

If you think about it, believing in "god" is just as (what most see) silly. A being with superpowers who can do all these things and created life. Yet we can't see him, and the only way we know about him is through stories from other people? Oh yes, but when it comes to more than half the world seeing things in the sky that can't be explained, suddenly they're nuts.

Like the show's intentions, just think about the concept of god himself. A being with superpowers (at least compared to what we know our race to be) who had the ability to create life as we know it. Never heard of/seen a human possess said powers, let alone create a whole new species of life. There's more evidence for the notion of ancient aliens throughout the world in places like Egypt, Peru, Meixco, etc. than there is for god himself.
Indeed. And the whole notion of God or gods can even be atributed to Aliens. If you say, well "Why haven't they been back since, and spoken to us as they did then?"

Well. My guess would be that if there are Aliens and they did visit us all those years ago, then they would know better than to come to Earth and introduce themselves. Could you imagine how the people of the world might react to that?

A perfect example is in the film PAUL. When the hardcore religious girl sees Paul she freaks out! Because his very existance goes against her very religion. And there would be millions of people who would react like that if Aliens came to earth today.
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Old 10-07-2011, 10:55 PM   #311
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Originally Posted by Mavrick View Post
Indeed. And the whole notion of God or gods can even be atributed to Aliens. If you say, well "Why haven't they been back since, and spoken to us as they did then?"

Well. My guess would be that if there are Aliens and they did visit us all those years ago, then they would know better than to come to Earth and introduce themselves. Could you imagine how the people of the world might react to that?

A perfect example is in the film PAUL. When the hardcore religious girl sees Paul she freaks out! Because his very existance goes against her very religion. And there would be millions of people who would react like that if Aliens came to earth today.
There is no doubt it would be a gamechanger!

Edit: that reminds me, I think I forgot to add Paul to my Netflix(Qwikster) queue...thanks!!
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Old 10-07-2011, 11:04 PM   #312
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Can you base any of this on scientific fact?
one of the main flaws behind pascals wager is it operates under the assumption that there is one singular belief system and one god to choose from. You would have just as much if not more chance of angering a god by picking the wrong one as you would picking no god.

Monotheists like chrisitans, Jews, Muslims, are simply one god away from being atheists. They choose not to believe in hundreds of other gods, many with written or oral history predating their chosen one.


when it comes to issues of faith, be they mainstream religion, ghosts, aliens ect - it's important to be respectful to the believer, while being critical of the belief. But it would be foolish to pretend anyone think truly thinks all beliefs should be given equal respect. That's just a nice sentiment that no one really actually believes. Or so says the little purple camel robots that live in my thumb and operate time and space with a french toast scepter.

It's also ok to enjoy silly tv shows on face value with out needing to take them as literal documents of fact/reality. The best entertainment aint reality.
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Old 10-07-2011, 11:09 PM   #313
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There is no doubt it would be a gamechanger!

Edit: that reminds me, I think I forgot to add Paul to my Netflix(Qwikster) queue...thanks!!



I loved it
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Old 10-07-2011, 11:26 PM   #314
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one of the main flaws behind pascals wager is it operates under the assumption that there is one singular belief system and one god to choose from. You would have just as much if not more chance of angering a god by picking the wrong one as you would picking no god.

Monotheists like chrisitans, Jews, Muslims, are simply one god away from being atheists. They choose not to believe in hundreds of other gods, many with written or oral history predating their chosen one.


when it comes to issues of faith, be they mainstream religion, ghosts, aliens ect - it's important to be respectful to the believer, while being critical of the belief. But it would be foolish to pretend anyone think truly thinks all beliefs should be given equal respect. That's just a nice sentiment that no one really actually believes. Or so says the little purple camel robots that live in my thumb and operate time and space with a french toast scepter.

It's also ok to enjoy silly tv shows on face value with out needing to take them as literal documents of fact/reality. The best entertainment aint reality.
I agree with all that but the biggest problem is how flat out sadistic the God of pascals wager assumes. Why would this dety hide his existance so well and then turn around and enflict horrific punishments for your non-belief. Many religous believers hilariously try to pretends God's existance is open and apparent or even that God as spoken to them but fact is the majority of the world does not share there religous beliefs meaning for the majority of the world his existance is not apparent. Many people have lived there lives without ever hearing about your God.

If God's existance was open and apparent he may be justified in punishing those who turned away from him. But since he isn't its flat out evil and sadistic to still punish people. Not to mention infinite punishment for finite crimes is not a fair or just punishment.
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Old 10-07-2011, 11:29 PM   #315
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Can you base any of this on scientific fact?
Hypothetical arguements do not have to be based in scientific fact. Hence why they are hypothetical
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Old 10-07-2011, 11:31 PM   #316
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I agree with all that but the biggest problem is how flat out sadistic the God of pascals wager assumes. Why would this dety hide his existance so well and then turn around and enflict horrific punishments for your non-belief. Many religous believers hilariously try to pretends God's existance is open and apparent or even that God as spoken to them but fact is the majority of the world does not share there religous beliefs meaning for the majority of the world his existance is not apparent. Many people have lived there lives without ever hearing about your God.

If God's existance was open and apparent he may be justified in punishing those who turned away from him. But since he isn't its flat out evil and sadistic to still punish people. Not to mention infinite punishment for finite crimes is not a fair or just punishment.
ya know I have taken issue with a number of things you have posted on here in the past. but on this subject, you and I are in complete agreement.
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Old 10-08-2011, 12:07 AM   #317
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Hypothetical arguements do not have to be based in scientific fact. Hence why they are hypothetical
I understand that, but your're the one in the Ancient Aliens thread basing everything on the need for scientific fact...so start facting away!

Edit: Also you're the one that brought up Pacal's Wager/Gambit, not I.

Last edited by rickah88; 10-08-2011 at 12:09 AM.
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Old 10-08-2011, 01:00 AM   #318
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Indeed. And the whole notion of God or gods can even be atributed to Aliens. If you say, well "Why haven't they been back since, and spoken to us as they did then?"

Well. My guess would be that if there are Aliens and they did visit us all those years ago, then they would know better than to come to Earth and introduce themselves. Could you imagine how the people of the world might react to that?

A perfect example is in the film PAUL. When the hardcore religious girl sees Paul she freaks out! Because his very existance goes against her very religion. And there would be millions of people who would react like that if Aliens came to earth today.
Exactly. As far as "coming back", I believe they already have, but it's being kept away from the masses for the very same reason you mentioned (the truth destroying people's beliefs).

We're their creation. In episode 3 of S1, they mention how numerous scientists didn't believe our species could develop from the "pool" that was created from when the Earth started to form. They also mention how important our moon is for life and how hollow it is, and that it could've been "placed" there for the sole purpose of our survival.
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Old 10-08-2011, 01:24 AM   #319
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I understand that, but your're the one in the Ancient Aliens thread basing everything on the need for scientific fact...so start facting away!

Edit: Also you're the one that brought up Pacal's Wager/Gambit, not I.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rickah88 View Post

I would much rather believe in a Higher Power, and find out there is none
than NOT believing in a Higher Power, and find out there is ONE!
the above quote is the essence of pascals wager.


Was it brought up before you posted that?
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Old 10-08-2011, 03:43 AM   #320
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I understand that, but your're the one in the Ancient Aliens thread basing everything on the need for scientific fact...so start facting away!

Edit: Also you're the one that brought up Pacal's Wager/Gambit, not I.
Pascals wager was not brought up by me. I was responding to an earlier post

Also the claims in Ancient Aliens are not presented as hypothetical arguements they are presented as real scientific theories. So there is no comparison. Again I don't have a problem with Ancient Aliens if its seen as fiction I have a problem with it as science
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