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Old 01-15-2016, 01:14 AM   #9321
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Sure, as I said: some of those errors may have been inherent to whatever sources were being used for mixing, I don't think it can be denied that the Blu mix for Star Wars was completely redone.

Clipped, as in mastered much too loudly so that when the loudest sound effects occur they literally crackle as they bump up against the restricted headroom of the mix. If you've still got the 2004 DVD of Star Wars then listen to the Death Star as it explodes, there's some mild crackling on the 5.1 but on the 2.0 mix the clipping is atrocious, it's like someone rustling tin foil in my ear.

When Star Wars was redone for Blu the clipping was taken care of, but because they re-used those older mixes for the Blus of Empire and Jedi they still sound much too aggressive and clipped to me. I miss the 2.0 PCM tracks from the THX Laserdiscs.
Thank you for the info Geoff D. I still have my 2-Disc DVD Editions of The Star Wars Trilogy from 2006; I'll pop in the 2004 DVD of Star Wars and I'll listen to the explosion of the Death Star on both the 6.1 & 2.0 Mixes, then I'll pop in the Blu-Ray and I'll check out that scene again.

I don't own the 1995 THX LaserDisc Editions of The Star Wars Trilogy but Lucasfilm did use those same 2.0 Surround Mixes on the 2006 DVDs of the Original Theatrical Unaltered Versions. However they are not in PCM, they are in Dolby.

Hopefully this year I'll score a good deal on an AC-3 Demodulator because I really want to check out the 5.1 Dolby Digital Mixes on the LaserDiscs of the 1997 Special Edition Versions of The Star Wars Trilogy. Over the years I've heard people say that those 5.1 Mixes have some advantages over the 6.1 Mixes from 2004 & 2011.
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Old 01-15-2016, 02:19 AM   #9322
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For the prequels they're pretty darned good aside from the DNR on Ep I, but the originals on Blu have a smorgasbord of issues.
So I guess AOTC is just a soft, flat looking movie due to it being the first to be shot digitally, and the Blu-Ray transfer does its best to bring out that soft, flatness heh..
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Old 01-15-2016, 07:06 AM   #9323
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I respect Ioan Allen immensely but he is DEAD wrong about a couple of things. Although with Dolby's introduction the sound did improve by way of having less noise, and with SR, greater Dynamic Range, the overall sound was comprised:

With 35 MM, by adapting a 4 Channel Optical Matrix system rather than discrete Mag, the sound was quite lifeless and had very weak channel separation compared to 4 track Mag.

With 70 MM, by adapting the Baby Boom format (dropping the LE And RE) the spacious sound of 70 MM which we loved so much was gone. On really big screens you could clearly sense a hole were those channels used to be.

Its very interesting to see that after all these years Dolby must have realized their mistake at least in the case of dropping the LE and RE channels, because now Atmos uses 5 full range channels behind the screen they way the original 70 MM systems did.

Last edited by sartana; 01-15-2016 at 06:37 PM.
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Old 01-15-2016, 02:34 PM   #9324
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The current DCI spec allows for left-centre & right-centre screen channels too, it's just used extremely rarely.

Blu-21: yes, they used various filters when shooting Ep II because the digital images they were getting back were much too sharp. The Blu of Ep II looks fine for what it is, I'd rather have something that's naturally soft rather than the DNR'd nastiness of Ep I.
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Old 01-15-2016, 02:42 PM   #9325
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sartana View Post
With 35 MM, by adapting a 4 Channe Optical Matrix system rather than discrete Mag, the sound was quite lifeless and had very weak channel separation compared to 4 track Mag.

Mag striping thousands of 35MM prints wasn't practical. The option has been there for decades anyway and nobody used it.

Quote:
With 70 MM, by adapting the Baby Boom format (dropping the LE And RE) the spacious sound of 70 MM which we loved so much was gone. On really big screens you could clearly sense a hole were those channels used to be.

Again, sound mixers were no longer interested in using it, and a lot of 65MM releases in the 50s and 60s didn't use it either - they were just L-C-R-S. Most of the time it was used to pan dialogue and mixers haven't been doing that very often. Hell, in the 70s when both 35MM and 70MM Dolby Stereo was introduced the industry had pretty much reverted back to MONO. It was because Dolby had made it "easy" to have surround that sound got pulled out of the doldrums.

In any case SDDS reintroduced that capability to digital and there weren't very many 8 channel SDDS releases.


Quote:
Its very interesting to see that after all these years Dolby must have realized their mistake at least in the case of dropping the LE and RE channels, because now Atmos uses 5 full range channels behind the screen they way the original 70 MM systems did.

It's optional depending on the setup. Dialogue can be an object panned to any speaker in the array.
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Old 01-16-2016, 09:31 AM   #9326
sartana sartana is offline
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Mag striping thousands of 35MM prints wasn't practical. The option has been there for decades anyway and nobody used it.

Nobody said they had to mag stripe every single print. They could have done enough for the premium theatres. But if that was too much of a bother to do dual inventory, I would have preferred to have had 300 good sounding prints, than 3000 mediocre ones.


Again, sound mixers were no longer interested in using it, and a lot of 65MM releases in the 50s and 60s didn't use it either - they were just L-C-R-S. Most of the time it was used to pan dialogue and mixers haven't been doing that very often.

That is absolutely not true. Virtually all of the old 70 MM mixes utilized the full 5 speaker array behind the screen. The majority of the mixers loved having 5 full range channels behind the screen. It wasn't until Dolby's introduction that they were forced to stop using the LE and RE.


In any case SDDS reintroduced that capability to digital and there weren't very many 8 channel SDDS releases.

That's because there were hardly any SDDS theatres with 5 speakers behind the screen to showcase the sound for people to hear the difference.

My whole point is. while Dolby did improve the sound in some aspects, it also weakened it in others, and the overall sound was compromised.

Last edited by sartana; 01-16-2016 at 02:47 PM.
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Old 01-16-2016, 04:46 PM   #9327
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Nobody said they had to mag stripe every single print. They could have done enough for the premium theatres.

And that's where they played 70MM. The premium theaters.

Quote:
That is absolutely not true. Virtually all of the old 70 MM mixes utilized the full 5 speaker array behind the screen. The majority of the mixers loved having 5 full range channels behind the screen. It wasn't until Dolby's introduction that they were forced to stop using the LE and RE.

Todd-AO used it consistently but SuperPanavision 70 used different configurations.


In any case, by the 70s when 70MM was reintroduced in Dolby, stereophonic sound had all but disappeared. You're blaming them for something they SAVED. And by 1979 with Apocalypse Now they introduced stereo surround. Much better than redundant screen channels.
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Old 01-17-2016, 10:14 AM   #9328
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I like Crystal Skull more every time I watch it. Tonight was the 4th or 5th time and I had a lot of fun with it. If I could just edit out the Mutt-on-vines, Mutt-with-sword and car-in-tree nonsense then I'd like it even more. It grows on you, after the initial disappointment fades.
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Old 01-17-2016, 10:40 AM   #9329
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Dude, I didn't even mind the Mutt-with-sword bit when I recently watched it again. But yeah, it's them damned monkeys and the car-in-tree nonsense that still bugged me quite a bit. Says something that I can buy Indy escaping a nuclear blast in a fridge more easily than Marion just deciding to drive off a cliff into a ****ing tree that she knows will gently caress the vehicle into the water below. Wut?
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Old 01-17-2016, 10:56 AM   #9330
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Says something that I can buy Indy escaping a nuclear blast in a fridge more easily than Marion just deciding to drive off a cliff into a ****ing tree that she knows will gently caress the vehicle into the water below. Wut?
With that big freaking grin on her face too.
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Old 01-17-2016, 11:00 AM   #9331
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Yeah, it's just a really weird beat, like something from a Wacky Races cartoon or something.
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Old 01-17-2016, 11:02 AM   #9332
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Old 01-17-2016, 11:06 AM   #9333
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^ They're in the jungle as well!
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Old 01-17-2016, 11:14 AM   #9334
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And y'know what? It's crazy how I can give so much of Temple of Doom's physics-defying madness a pass while I rag on some choice Crystal Skull moments (although I DID ACTUALLY ENJOY THE FILM so people best not be be starting up with that 'hater' shit). But Temple has such a colourful comic book vibe to it that the insanity works from minute one, it just seems to fit somehow, whereas the silliest bits in Crystal Skull seem so out of place for that particular film.
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Old 01-17-2016, 11:19 AM   #9335
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff D View Post
And y'know what? It's crazy how I can give so much of Temple of Doom's physics-defying madness a pass while I rag on some choice Crystal Skull moments (although I DID ACTUALLY ENJOY THE FILM so people best not be be starting up with that 'hater' shit). But Temple has such a colourful comic book vibe to it that the insanity works from minute one, it just seems to fit somehow, whereas the silliest bits in Crystal Skull seem so out of place for that particular film.
Yeah, it's really about tone and fitting them in right. We nailed it by pointing out the look on her face and the cartoonish tone. Doom and Last Crusade did some pretty crazy shit like the raft scene and the Marcus Brody: Super Idiot stuff, but it never quite comes across as cheesy or stupid because the movies deftly handle those scenes in a good tone.

The closest thing to Marion's magic tree in the original trilogy is probably the plane in the tunnel from Last Crusade, and not coincidentally that's my least favorite gag in that film.
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Old 01-17-2016, 11:39 AM   #9336
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And that's where they played 70MM. The premium theaters.

Not every film had a 70 MM release though.


by the 70s when 70MM was reintroduced in Dolby, stereophonic sound had all but disappeared. You're blaming them for something they SAVED

Again you are making a claim which is simply not true. Dolby did not save Stereophonic sound. It was alive and well. They just came in and introduced their own version which was compromised, simply for the sake of having more Stereo theatres. Again I would have preferred 300 good sounding prints(theatres) than 3000 mediocre ones.



And by 1979 with Apocalypse Now they introduced stereo surround. Much better than redundant screen channels


I would have liked the introduction of Stereo Surround, but not at the expense of losing the LE and RE. Don't forget even their Stereo Surround was compromised, by being Stereo only in the high frequencies. The Mid range and Lows were still Mono.

Last edited by sartana; 01-17-2016 at 12:41 PM.
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Old 03-04-2016, 02:44 PM   #9337
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I was at another Web site and there was a discussion about Raiders of the Lost Ark.

There seems to be some confusion over whether the Blu-ray contains a new 4K scan or if it's the previous 4K scan that was done for Japanese broadcast.

Did both releases come from the same scan with just new masters made from it, or were these both two different 4K scans all together?
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Old 03-04-2016, 03:04 PM   #9338
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StingingVelvet View Post
Yeah, it's really about tone and fitting them in right. We nailed it by pointing out the look on her face and the cartoonish tone. Doom and Last Crusade did some pretty crazy shit like the raft scene and the Marcus Brody: Super Idiot stuff, but it never quite comes across as cheesy or stupid because the movies deftly handle those scenes in a good tone.

The closest thing to Marion's magic tree in the original trilogy is probably the plane in the tunnel from Last Crusade, and not coincidentally that's my least favorite gag in that film.
For years, Temple Of Doom was an embarrassment to the franchise in nerd circles and now I see folks embracing it more and more. I don't think KOTCS will ever be embraced as misunderstood and will always be called the weakest, but I suspect it will continue to age well.

And yeah, the car in the tree is sincerely stupid as is much of Karen Allen's performance I regret to say.
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Old 04-11-2016, 05:12 PM   #9339
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I just ordered this for 20 euros. Will it be the fancy cardboard packaging or have they replaced it with a thick Blu-Ray case? I hope the first one. I was dissappointed when I ordered Alien Anthology because it was just cheap looking thick BD case. I live in Europe.
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Old 04-11-2016, 05:16 PM   #9340
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I just ordered this for 20 euros. Will it be the fancy cardboard packaging or have they replaced it with a thick Blu-Ray case? I hope the first one. I was dissappointed when I ordered Alien Anthology because it was just cheap looking thick BD case. I live in Europe.
And here I ordered the UK version of the Alien Anthology from the US precisely because I wanted that plastic case and not the huge cardboard packaging... We all have different tastes.
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