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Old 11-28-2012, 12:33 AM   #1
davewhit davewhit is offline
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Default 7.1 query

Not sure if this is the right place to ask so I will, got a Panasonic DMP BD80 set up to my Philips HTR5224 surround sound system and I don't know exactly how I should be listening to blu ray films. As I am new to all this I will explain, when I put the film on DTS mode only five speakers work, front, centre and surround, back nothing, but when I switch to 7ch stereo all 7 speakers work, is this right and if so what s the sound quality difference between DTS and 7 channel stereo. Also will all seven speakers work with films with 7.1 DTS. hope am not confusing you all.
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Old 11-28-2012, 12:58 AM   #2
erlinmeyer erlinmeyer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davewhit View Post
Not sure if this is the right place to ask so I will, got a Panasonic DMP BD80 set up to my Philips HTR5224 surround sound system and I don't know exactly how I should be listening to blu ray films. As I am new to all this I will explain, when I put the film on DTS mode only five speakers work, front, centre and surround, back nothing, but when I switch to 7ch stereo all 7 speakers work, is this right and if so what s the sound quality difference between DTS and 7 channel stereo. Also will all seven speakers work with films with 7.1 DTS. hope am not confusing you all.
the HTR5224 should have a Surround button on the remote that Switches audio output to one of these modes: multi-channel 7.1 surround,
7-channel stereo,
multichannel 5.1 surround,
5-channel stereo
or stereo.

surround will give your better separation than stereo(the unit may output to all 7 speakers and the sub woofer, but it is still stereo...no depth or distinct separation). as far as all speakers working with DTS, it may be in the HDMI handshake that limits it to 5.1 from a 5.1 source but enables 7.1 with a 7.1 source. thought there was another thread on here that lists movies with 7.1 source that may help.
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Old 11-28-2012, 01:12 AM   #3
davewhit davewhit is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erlinmeyer View Post
the HTR5224 should have a Surround button on the remote that Switches audio output to one of these modes: multi-channel 7.1 surround,
7-channel stereo,
multichannel 5.1 surround,
5-channel stereo
or stereo.

surround will give your better separation than stereo(the unit may output to all 7 speakers and the sub woofer, but it is still stereo...no depth or distinct separation). as far as all speakers working with DTS, it may be in the HDMI handshake that limits it to 5.1 from a 5.1 source but enables 7.1 with a 7.1 source. thought there was another thread on here that lists movies with 7.1 source that may help.
Cheers mate when you say hdmi handshake should I do something to rectify this, I use a optical cable for sound and hdmi for pic or should I plug my hdmi into the htr5224 like I do with my sky box, would this improve sound quality
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Old 11-28-2012, 01:30 AM   #4
bobbydrugar bobbydrugar is offline
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1.) plug the dmp-bd80 into the HTR224 via an HDMI cable (Optical cable cannot carry the HD audio signal)
2.) Make sure that the dmp-bd80 is set to send Uncompressed LPCM to the HTR224 in the DMP-BD80 setup menu (that receiver cannot decode HD audio and needs to have that done in the blu-ray player)
3.) Make sure that the HDMI Out from the HTR224 is connected to your TV
4.) If needed cycle through the surround options on your HTR224 to 7.1ch surround (This shouldn't be necessary since the HDMI cable should communicate with your HTR224 and automatically negotiate to probably Mult Ch surround but if you want to use all 7 speakers even with movies only recorded in 5.1 then you may need to change the surround mode on the HTR224 to 7.1 surround which I believe is what makes the dolby prologic IIx feature work this feature makes 5.1 signal into 7.1 signal in your case. do not use 7.1 ch stereo as this will force the 5.1 and 7.1 sound on the blu-ray to be a 2.0 ch stereo signal and will play the same left ch sound through all 3 left speakers and the same right ch through the right 3 speakers and both right and left will be mixed together into the center this is the worst way you could listen to your blu-rays)

Hope that gets you started on the right trail

Thanks,
T
TV: Samsung UN55D8000
Receiver: Onkyo TX-NR5008
Speakers: Front:Polk RTI A7 / Center: Polk CSI A6 / Surround: Polk FXi A6 (X4)
SUB: SVS PB12-NSD
Blu-ray Player: Panasonic DMP-BDT350
Game System: PS/3, XBox 360, Wii, PS/2
Remote: Harmony One with PS/3 Adapter What Else does one need :) (I know how about the Harmony 900) oh yeah
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Old 11-28-2012, 01:47 AM   #5
davewhit davewhit is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbydrugar View Post
1.) plug the dmp-bd80 into the HTR224 via an HDMI cable (Optical cable cannot carry the HD audio signal)
2.) Make sure that the dmp-bd80 is set to send Uncompressed LPCM to the HTR224 in the DMP-BD80 setup menu (that receiver cannot decode HD audio and needs to have that done in the blu-ray player)
3.) Make sure that the HDMI Out from the HTR224 is connected to your TV
4.) If needed cycle through the surround options on your HTR224 to 7.1ch surround (This shouldn't be necessary since the HDMI cable should communicate with your HTR224 and automatically negotiate to probably Mult Ch surround but if you want to use all 7 speakers even with movies only recorded in 5.1 then you may need to change the surround mode on the HTR224 to 7.1 surround which I believe is what makes the dolby prologic IIx feature work this feature makes 5.1 signal into 7.1 signal in your case. do not use 7.1 ch stereo as this will force the 5.1 and 7.1 sound on the blu-ray to be a 2.0 ch stereo signal and will play the same left ch sound through all 3 left speakers and the same right ch through the right 3 speakers and both right and left will be mixed together into the center this is the worst way you could listen to your blu-rays)

Hope that gets you started on the right trail

Thanks,
T
Cheers will try that I think audio in the blu ray is set to bitstream at the moment so will change it thank you will let you know how I get on
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Old 11-28-2012, 02:02 AM   #6
davewhit davewhit is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbydrugar View Post
1.) plug the dmp-bd80 into the HTR224 via an HDMI cable (Optical cable cannot carry the HD audio signal)
2.) Make sure that the dmp-bd80 is set to send Uncompressed LPCM to the HTR224 in the DMP-BD80 setup menu (that receiver cannot decode HD audio and needs to have that done in the blu-ray player)
3.) Make sure that the HDMI Out from the HTR224 is connected to your TV
4.) If needed cycle through the surround options on your HTR224 to 7.1ch surround (This shouldn't be necessary since the HDMI cable should communicate with your HTR224 and automatically negotiate to probably Mult Ch surround but if you want to use all 7 speakers even with movies only recorded in 5.1 then you may need to change the surround mode on the HTR224 to 7.1 surround which I believe is what makes the dolby prologic IIx feature work this feature makes 5.1 signal into 7.1 signal in your case. do not use 7.1 ch stereo as this will force the 5.1 and 7.1 sound on the blu-ray to be a 2.0 ch stereo signal and will play the same left ch sound through all 3 left speakers and the same right ch through the right 3 speakers and both right and left will be mixed together into the center this is the worst way you could listen to your blu-rays)

Hope that gets you started on the right trail

Thanks,
T
Sorry not sure where uncompressed lpcm is in audio options there is only bitstream or PCM
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Old 11-28-2012, 02:49 AM   #7
pentatonic pentatonic is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davewhit View Post
Sorry not sure where uncompressed lpcm is in audio options there is only bitstream or PCM
PCM then.
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Old 11-28-2012, 02:57 AM   #8
bobbydrugar bobbydrugar is offline
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what pen said PCM is uncompressed LPCM (Linear Pulse Code Modulation or shortend down to Pulse Code Modulation or PCM)

Remember you have to be running both sound and video through the HDMI cable because the optical cable is not capable of 7.1ch High Definition Audio only 2ch PCM or compressed bitstream Which is called lossy compression DTS and Dolby Digital. These lossy compression formats should not be confused with DTS-HD-MA or DTS High Definition Master audio which is lossless and good or Dolby TrueHD which is also lossless and good.

Thanks,
T
TV: Samsung UN55D8000
Receiver: Onkyo TX-NR5008
Speakers: Front:Polk RTI A7 / Center: Polk CSI A6 / Surround: Polk FXi A6 (X4)
SUB: SVS PB12-NSD
Blu-ray Player: Panasonic DMP-BDT350
Game System: PS/3, XBox 360, Wii, PS/2
Remote: Harmony One with PS/3 Adapter What Else does one need :) (I know how about the Harmony 900) oh yeah
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Old 11-28-2012, 01:55 PM   #9
davewhit davewhit is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbydrugar View Post
what pen said PCM is uncompressed LPCM (Linear Pulse Code Modulation or shortend down to Pulse Code Modulation or PCM)

Remember you have to be running both sound and video through the HDMI cable because the optical cable is not capable of 7.1ch High Definition Audio only 2ch PCM or compressed bitstream Which is called lossy compression DTS and Dolby Digital. These lossy compression formats should not be confused with DTS-HD-MA or DTS High Definition Master audio which is lossless and good or Dolby TrueHD which is also lossless and good.

Thanks,
T
So have the hdmi plugged into the htr5224 and changed the setting in audio to PCM and when I play a blu ray it comes up with pcm7.1 on the philips, if I try changing surround settings no other choice is there like before when had stereo, 7ch stereo and so on, is this right sorry to be a pain
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Old 11-28-2012, 03:14 PM   #10
davewhit davewhit is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbydrugar View Post
what pen said PCM is uncompressed LPCM (Linear Pulse Code Modulation or shortend down to Pulse Code Modulation or PCM)

Remember you have to be running both sound and video through the HDMI cable because the optical cable is not capable of 7.1ch High Definition Audio only 2ch PCM or compressed bitstream Which is called lossy compression DTS and Dolby Digital. These lossy compression formats should not be confused with DTS-HD-MA or DTS High Definition Master audio which is lossless and good or Dolby TrueHD which is also lossless and good.

Thanks,
T
Also sorry to be a pain what should I have PCM down conversion, on or off and downmix is set to surround encoded or stereo, also in my connection what should analog audio output be set to or doesn't that make a difference as I am using hdmi, again sorry to be a pain
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Old 11-28-2012, 03:42 PM   #11
Tech-UK Tech-UK is offline
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Your receiver is now being fed exactly what it should be. If a track on Blu-ray is encoded with either 2.0, 5.1, 7.1 that is what is sent to the receiver. PCM downconversion should be set to off, and downmix set to surround encoded. You do not need to adjust the analog settings.

Try a blu-ray with a 5.1 track and 7.1, and see that the appropriate number of channels are being received. It doesn't matter if the soundtrack is DTS-HD MA, TrueHD or PCM, as any compressed codec both lossless and lossy (DD or DTS) will be transcoded to PCM by the player and output to the receiver.
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Old 11-28-2012, 09:54 PM   #12
davewhit davewhit is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tech-UK View Post
Your receiver is now being fed exactly what it should be. If a track on Blu-ray is encoded with either 2.0, 5.1, 7.1 that is what is sent to the receiver. PCM downconversion should be set to off, and downmix set to surround encoded. You do not need to adjust the analog settings.

Try a blu-ray with a 5.1 track and 7.1, and see that the appropriate number of channels are being received. It doesn't matter if the soundtrack is DTS-HD MA, TrueHD or PCM, as any compressed codec both lossless and lossy (DD or DTS) will be transcoded to PCM by the player and output to the receiver.
Yes tried it with rush hour and all speakers seemed to work great thanks also not sure if secondary audio should be on or off as don't understand that neither lol
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Old 11-28-2012, 11:44 PM   #13
bobbydrugar bobbydrugar is offline
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Secondary audio is for PIP tracks and menu sounds etc. Since you are passing the sound as PCM from the blu-ray player you can turn on the secondary audio and probably should so you can enjoy PIP (Picture in Picture) sound when and if you use that feature.

Thanks,
T
TV: Samsung UN55D8000
Receiver: Onkyo TX-NR5008
Speakers: Front:Polk RTI A7 / Center: Polk CSI A6 / Surround: Polk FXi A6 (X4)
SUB: SVS PB12-NSD
Blu-ray Player: Panasonic DMP-BDT350
Game System: PS/3, XBox 360, Wii, PS/2
Remote: Harmony One with PS/3 Adapter What Else does one need :) (I know how about the Harmony 900) oh yeah
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Old 11-29-2012, 02:47 PM   #14
davewhit davewhit is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbydrugar View Post
Secondary audio is for PIP tracks and menu sounds etc. Since you are passing the sound as PCM from the blu-ray player you can turn on the secondary audio and probably should so you can enjoy PIP (Picture in Picture) sound when and if you use that feature.

Thanks,
T
cheers mate you have helped a lot to a newbie, if i can return the favour anytime mate
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Old 11-29-2012, 03:16 PM   #15
joie joie is offline
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On at least some Lionsgate titles, Cabin in the Woods and Amelie for sure, you can go into the setup's audio options and they have a test for proper connection and phasing for a 7.1 system. With that you can begin to troubleshoot audio problems/mysteries. On both those titles, I think the test was the only audio option.
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Old 11-29-2012, 04:17 PM   #16
davewhit davewhit is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joie View Post
On at least some Lionsgate titles, Cabin in the Woods and Amelie for sure, you can go into the setup's audio options and they have a test for proper connection and phasing for a 7.1 system. With that you can begin to troubleshoot audio problems/mysteries. On both those titles, I think the test was the only audio option.
cheers mate for that, not sure what lionsgate titles i have and do the test but if you know of anymore let us know cheers
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Old 11-29-2012, 07:22 PM   #17
bobbydrugar bobbydrugar is offline
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No problem and welcome to the community here at Blu-ray.com I am sure that you will find many helpful and informative people lurking around here and some very informational threads that are stickied in the various forums particularly some of the audio theory threads created by Our very own audio Guru Big Daddy that are worth a read through.

Thanks,
T
TV: Samsung UN55D8000
Receiver: Onkyo TX-NR5008
Speakers: Front:Polk RTI A7 / Center: Polk CSI A6 / Surround: Polk FXi A6 (X4)
SUB: SVS PB12-NSD
Blu-ray Player: Panasonic DMP-BDT350
Game System: PS/3, XBox 360, Wii, PS/2
Remote: Harmony One with PS/3 Adapter What Else does one need :) (I know how about the Harmony 900) oh yeah
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