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Old 08-28-2015, 05:39 AM   #1081
StingingVelvet StingingVelvet is offline
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Originally Posted by Jett Rink View Post
These are the best episodes, at least to me. I plan on buying this set day one.
Problem is I own them all already. Granted the first three are on DVD, but getting the (hopefully coming stateside) BD sets of seasons 2-4 will fix that.
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Old 08-28-2015, 05:41 AM   #1082
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I think it's ridiculous that the BD presents the show at the wrong "speed."
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Old 08-28-2015, 06:23 AM   #1083
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What's it mean that the disc is slowed down? I get that 24 fps is less than 60 fps but how does that actually translate to what you see on TV? Is it noticeable? Is the entire episode slower? If so, wouldn't it be longer in run time?
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Old 08-28-2015, 10:55 AM   #1084
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What's it mean that the disc is slowed down? I get that 24 fps is less than 60 fps but how does that actually translate to what you see on TV? Is it noticeable? Is the entire episode slower? If so, wouldn't it be longer in run time?
They (1-4 and The Next Doctor) were shot 576i50 (Standard definition digital "PAL" standard), and converted to 25p in post by deinterlacing (known as filmising to make it look more like film) and finished in 50i with smooth interlaced credits. Most US systems can't cope with 25p or 50i. These have been slowed down to 24p for the upscales which gives a better conversion than to 60i which would introduce judder or motion blurring. This is at the cost of the original speed (though the audio has been pitch corrected) and the mangling of the original interlaced end credits and the occasional interlaced insert. Yes, they do run longer, everything is 4% too slow.

The problem is, they've also released these 24p conversion for series 1-4 in the UK when they should have released them as 1080i50 upconverts.

The rest of the specials onwards were shot 1080i50 so while not upscales are still slowed down for the US market. For season 5 onwards, the UK Blu-rays are in the original 50i format thankfully with the exception of the 3D disc of Day of the Doctor.

Last edited by oddbox83; 08-28-2015 at 11:04 AM.
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Old 08-28-2015, 12:40 PM   #1085
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Originally Posted by oddbox83 View Post
They (1-4 and The Next Doctor) were shot 576i50 (Standard definition digital "PAL" standard), and converted to 25p in post by deinterlacing (known as filmising to make it look more like film) and finished in 50i with smooth interlaced credits. Most US systems can't cope with 25p or 50i. These have been slowed down to 24p for the upscales which gives a better conversion than to 60i which would introduce judder or motion blurring. This is at the cost of the original speed (though the audio has been pitch corrected) and the mangling of the original interlaced end credits and the occasional interlaced insert. Yes, they do run longer, everything is 4% too slow.

The problem is, they've also released these 24p conversion for series 1-4 in the UK when they should have released them as 1080i50 upconverts.

The rest of the specials onwards were shot 1080i50 so while not upscales are still slowed down for the US market. For season 5 onwards, the UK Blu-rays are in the original 50i format thankfully with the exception of the 3D disc of Day of the Doctor.
As an American viewer who has only ever seen these on Netflix and this Blu-Ray set, have I ever seen them at their original speed?
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Old 08-28-2015, 12:59 PM   #1086
oddbox83 oddbox83 is offline
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As an American viewer who has only ever seen these on Netflix and this Blu-Ray set, have I ever seen them at their original speed?
I can't say, I don't know what Netflix US is using.
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Old 08-28-2015, 01:06 PM   #1087
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Originally Posted by oddbox83 View Post
They (1-4 and The Next Doctor) were shot 576i50 (Standard definition digital "PAL" standard), and converted to 25p in post by deinterlacing (known as filmising to make it look more like film) and finished in 50i with smooth interlaced credits.
Do you happen to know how Torchwood was shown in the US? Because they even didn't bother to filmise it from the 50i source in the UK. It looks really crap, like PJ's HFR on steroids.
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Old 08-28-2015, 02:04 PM   #1088
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Originally Posted by worldchmps View Post
What's it mean that the disc is slowed down? I get that 24 fps is less than 60 fps but how does that actually translate to what you see on TV? Is it noticeable? Is the entire episode slower? If so, wouldn't it be longer in run time?
The 25fps to 24fps slowdown has been explained, but 24fsp/60fps turns out to run at the same speed without any audio manipulations due to the way they do the conversion and the way most peoples brain work.
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Old 08-28-2015, 03:00 PM   #1089
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As an American viewer who has only ever seen these on Netflix and this Blu-Ray set, have I ever seen them at their original speed?
No as that would mean showing them at 50hz which is still something the majority of US hardware still can't handle.
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Old 08-28-2015, 03:17 PM   #1090
StingingVelvet StingingVelvet is offline
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No as that would mean showing them at 50hz which is still something the majority of US hardware still can't handle.
The DVDs run at the correct speed, don't they? Using some kind of pulldown. I would guess Netflix is the same, though I wouldn't know really.

For those worrying I feel it's important to point out most people don't notice 4% slowdown as long as the program is pitch-corrected, which Doctor Who is. That said like any other modification or flaw there are people who deem it unwatchable because of the slowdown. It really depends on the person.
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Old 08-28-2015, 03:30 PM   #1091
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The UK DVDs run at correct speed. The US ones cannot, as they have NTSC.
Pete
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Old 08-28-2015, 04:31 PM   #1092
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oddbox83 View Post
They (1-4 and The Next Doctor) were shot 576i50 (Standard definition digital "PAL" standard), and converted to 25p in post by deinterlacing (known as filmising to make it look more like film) and finished in 50i with smooth interlaced credits.
Actually, they were shot in Progressive PAL (not interlaced) at 25fps, so no deinterlacing was necessary. The special effects were also done progressively at the frame (not field) level. The image didn't become interlaced until the titles/credits (running at 50 fps) were added.

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The DVDs run at the correct speed, don't they? Using some kind of pulldown. I would guess Netflix is the same, though I wouldn't know really.
Yes, the DVDs run at the correct speed.

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Originally Posted by TheHutt View Post
The UK DVDs run at correct speed. The US ones cannot, as they have NTSC.
No. The PAL was field-blended into NTSC. The running time was not changed and no "time stretching" occurred. Still, the PAL DVDs are preferred since PAL has more resolution than NTSC and field-blending worsens picture quality.
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Old 08-28-2015, 06:12 PM   #1093
oddbox83 oddbox83 is offline
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Do you happen to know how Torchwood was shown in the US? Because they even didn't bother to filmise it from the 50i source in the UK. It looks really crap, like PJ's HFR on steroids.
Torchwood was progressive HD from day 1, but Blu-rays of 1-3 are 60i conversions on both sides of the pond. They did also have some trouble with the HD cameras at the time, learning curve and all that. It's really apparent in the darker scenes in earlier episodes of season 1, made all the worse by a frame-estimated conversion to 60i.

Miracle Day was released in the correct 24p in the US but for some strange reason the BBC stuck with 50i (4% speed-up) for the UK market. If only they'd been penny-pinching on that occasion and using the US masters there.

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No. The PAL was field-blended into NTSC. The running time was not changed and no "time stretching" occurred. Still, the PAL DVDs are preferred since PAL has more resolution than NTSC and field-blending worsens picture quality.
Not quite. Some are frame estimated conversions, the modern type where basically the whole lot is estimated from the existing frames to give a smooth but smeary look. I personally hate this, and makes watching some of the earlier BBC Blus a chore. Others (like the Who specials season original US and UK release) use pulldown similar to how they converted 24fps films to NTSC. This is better than the former but they seemed to have a screwy converter because the colour seems to lag a frame behind so it's still got a smeary look.

Last edited by oddbox83; 08-28-2015 at 06:19 PM.
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Old 08-28-2015, 06:24 PM   #1094
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Originally Posted by oddbox83 View Post
Torchwood was progressive HD from day 1, but Blu-rays of 1-3 are 60i conversions on both sides of the pond. They did also have some trouble with the HD cameras at the time, learning curve and all that. It's really apparent in the darker scenes in earlier episodes of season 1, made all the worse by a frame-estimated conversion to 60i.

Miracle Day was released in the correct 24p in the US but for some strange reason the BBC stuck with 50i (4% speed-up) for the UK market. If only they'd been penny-pinching on that occasion and using the US masters there.



Not quite. Some are frame estimated conversions, the modern type where basically the whole lot is estimated from the existing frames to give a smooth but smeary look. I personally hate this, and makes watching some of the earlier BBC Blus a chore. Others (like the Who specials season original US and UK release) use pulldown similar to how they converted 24fps films to NTSC. This is better than the former but they seemed to have a screwy converter because the colour seems to lag a frame behind so it's still got a smeary look.
The first two series of Torchwood were HD? If that's true I'm very surprised. Didn't it air in 2006? And on BBC3 as well?
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Old 08-28-2015, 06:27 PM   #1095
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As an American viewer who has only ever seen these on Netflix and this Blu-Ray set, have I ever seen them at their original speed?
Netflix has the series at the correct speed (50i -> 60i conversion, I assume).

The slowdown really annoys me. I wish it didn't, but it just feels "off" to me.
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Old 08-28-2015, 06:36 PM   #1096
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The first two series of Torchwood were HD? If that's true I'm very surprised. Didn't it air in 2006? And on BBC3 as well?
Yes, shot on the same cameras as they used for the Who 2009/2010 specials I believe. They'd figured them out by then! Then I think they switched to better ones from series 5.
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Old 08-28-2015, 07:38 PM   #1097
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Netflix has the series at the correct speed (50i -> 60i conversion, I assume).

The slowdown really annoys me. I wish it didn't, but it just feels "off" to me.
Interesting. I watched the series twice. Once on Netflix and then again on the Blu-Rays. I don't believe I ever noticed anything off about it.
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Old 08-29-2015, 02:31 AM   #1098
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The speed issue is a non-issue to me, I can't even tell the difference.
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Old Yesterday, 05:07 AM   #1099
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I have Season 3 Blurays from the BBC UK set - purchased from someone parting them out on eBay. It played without issue on my region A players.
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