Pioneer BDP-23FD Owners Wanted - Page 17 - Blu-ray Forum

oppopioneer · 12-13-2012, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tech-UK

If you have set your 23FD to 16-235 and your Kuro is set to its default of 'auto', the Kuro will accept whats given to it. In this case RGB 16-235. Setting the color space on the Kuro, just ensures that it receives an RGB signal. Sometimes 'auto' may give you strange results, depending on the source, i.e. the connected player.

The HDMI port my bd player is plugged into for bluray and dvd viewing is HDMI port 4. My Comcast HD cable box is plugged into HDMI port 7. I set HDMI port 4 to RGB 16-235 and HDMI port 7 to 'Auto'. When I switch back and forth from HDMI 4 and HDMI 7 the tv remembers the settings, which is good.

For Comcast HD cable boxes, what should the setting on the display be? My Comcast HD cable box model is RNG110.

oppopioneer · 12-13-2012, 05:41 PM

I just watched Point Break on dvd on my Pio Kuro plasma and Pio bdp-23FD. I had the bd player set to RGB 16-235 and Source Direct. I had my Kuro plasma set to Color Space-3 RGB 16-235 with Film Mode-Advance on. It looked like I was watching it in the theater on a movie screen. The Pio plasmas duplicates and replicates film authentically, it was amazing to see all the pops, scratches, film grain as the original source and how it upconverts dvd.

I don't own any blurays yet. I rent all my blurays. So I haven't watched any blurays with the above settings enacted yet.

Tech-UK · 12-13-2012, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oppopioneer

I just watched Point Break on dvd on my Pio Kuro plasma and Pio bdp-23FD. I had the bd player set to RGB 16-235 and Source Direct. I had my Kuro plasma set to Color Space-3 RGB 16-235 with Film Mode-Advance on. It looked like I was watching it in the theater on a movie screen. The Pio plasmas duplicates and replicates film authentically, it was amazing to see all the pops, scratches, film grain as the original source and how it upconverts dvd.

I don't own any blurays yet. I rent all my blurays. So I haven't watched any blurays with the above settings enacted yet.

Get some Blu-ray's playing!

Tech-UK · 12-13-2012, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oppopioneer

The HDMI port my bd player is plugged into for bluray and dvd viewing is HDMI port 4. My Comcast HD cable box is plugged into HDMI port 7. I set HDMI port 4 to RGB 16-235 and HDMI port 7 to 'Auto'. When I switch back and forth from HDMI 4 and HDMI 7 the tv remembers the settings, which is good.

For Comcast HD cable boxes, what should the setting on the display be? My Comcast HD cable box model is RNG110.

Best keep it on auto, unless you know what color spaces the cable box can output.

oppopioneer · 12-14-2012, 08:26 PM

Teck-UK, do you know what color space the Panasonic plasmas do their sampling or converting in? I think I read that it's in 4:2:2, so I would assume it's best to switch the bd player to Color Space 4:2:2 if you have a Panasonic plasma and want the less processing or?

Tech-UK · 12-14-2012, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oppopioneer

Teck-UK, do you know what color space the Panasonic plasmas do their sampling or converting in? I think I read that it's in 4:2:2, so I would assume it's best to switch the bd player to Color Space 4:2:2 if you have a Panasonic plasma and want the less processing or?

Sorry I don't know, but if it is YCbCr 4:2:2, then yes, you are best outputting that. BUT, some players seem to fail the test on the spears and munsil Blu-ray test disc when they output YCbCr 4:2:2. I believe OPPO (obviously) is one that doesn't fail.

This is a very good read regarding color spaces, and the basic process of converting as I have been saying:

http://www.spearsandmunsil.com/artic...olorspace.html

oppopioneer · 12-15-2012, 02:11 AM

What do you think of this quote posted by a member over at avs. Do you agree with it below?

"This is why I said that differences -- hopefully improvement, but there's no guarantee -- for use of Deep Color 30 or 36 bit will be "subtle". There is no content data in those extra, low order bits. What's in there is essentially rounding data from the intermediate results of the video processing that happens between the disc and the pixels on the display.

As you are probably aware, better video processors maintain more than 24 bits per pixel in their processing path. In many cases the bit width of the video processing actually exceeds what the physical display elements are capable of rendering, but the idea is to keep artifacts from creeping into the process due to truncation BEFORE you get to the pixels.

Now, if some processing is happening in the player and other processing is happening in the display (which is always the case), wouldn't it be better to preserve the rounding bits of those intermediate results across the HDMI cable? Or must they be truncated to just 24 bits per pixel simply because they are crossing the cable?

That's the theory behind Deep Color as applied to current commercial content.

It MIGHT produce better results, but it can't produce DRAMATICALLY better results because there's no content data in those added, low order bits. Just rounding.

And then the people who authored the video deliberately structured it assuming 24 bits per pixel (if they were doing their job right). So will such rounding retention even be noticeable?

And then some devices just do lip-service to Deep Color -- accepting 30 or 36 bit input but simply lopping off the extra low order bits as the first step in their internal processing!

And then some devices have bugs which cause them to screw up for some Deep Color choices but not for others.

So in theory, Deep Color shouldn't hurt, but at best it won't produce dramatically better results unless something (bugs) is screwing up the processing of the lower bit width choices.

And Deep Color 30 or 36 bit does put more bandwidth on the HDMI cable, which makes HDMI problems more likely, particularly for long cable runs.

So the bottom line is that you simply have to check and SEE which combo(s) of data format and Deep Color width works best for the video going through YOUR AVR and into YOUR Display.

But if you can't see a reason to prefer Deep Color 30 or 36 bit, then leave Deep Color OFF because that makes the HDMI function more reliably.

YCbCr 4:2:2 and YCbCr 4:4:4 have the same data rate (bandwidth) on HDMI for a given image resolution -- 24 bits per pixel with Deep Color OFF. 4:2:2 is transmitted with padding bits."

Tech-UK · 12-15-2012, 11:11 AM

30, 36 or 48-bit (Deep Color) are just replicated bits encoded by the BD player, thus that additional information isn't on the disc.

Pondosinatra · 12-15-2012, 10:14 PM

Ok, so here's a question. Right now I have my 23FD hooked up directly to my Kuro.

But in a few months when I move I'm going to end up sending the data through a video matrix box. Now what? How does adding yet another device in between affect things?

Pondosinatra · 12-17-2012, 11:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pondosinatra

Ok, so here's a question. Right now I have my 23FD hooked up directly to my Kuro.

But in a few months when I move I'm going to end up sending the data through a video matrix box. Now what? How does adding yet another device in between affect things?

Anyone????

oppopioneer · 12-18-2012, 02:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pondosinatra

Anyone????

What is the name of the device and how is the home theater going to be wired/set up? Can you list all the equipment in your home theater once it's fully assembled?

oppopioneer · 12-20-2012, 02:21 AM

Questions regarding BDMV/BDAV playback priority. Where do I need to set this too for proper playback or bd's and dvd's? I read that all commercial BD movies use the BDMV structure. I'm not sure what BDMV and BDAV and how it effects playback. Does it have an impact on PQ and SQ?

Mind you, my Pio Kuro plasma is NOT hooked up to a reciever and amp, just a Pio bd player.

Tech-UK · 12-20-2012, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oppopioneer

Questions regarding BDMV/BDAV playback priority. Where do I need to set this too for proper playback or bd's and dvd's? I read that all commercial BD movies use the BDMV structure. I'm not sure what BDMV and BDAV and how it effects playback. Does it have an impact on PQ and SQ?

Mind you, my Pio Kuro plasma is NOT hooked up to a reciever and amp, just a Pio bd player.

It only applies to playing back BD-R/RE discs, all this setting does is set the priority of playback, if a Blu-ray includes both main container formats. No impact with BD-ROM (commercial movies).

Pondosinatra · 12-20-2012, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oppopioneer

What is the name of the device and how is the home theater going to be wired/set up? Can you list all the equipment in your home theater once it's fully assembled?

Here is the device I was quoted:

http://www.atlona.com/PRO3HD44M.html

oppopioneer · 12-21-2012, 07:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pondosinatra

Here is the device I was quoted:

http://www.atlona.com/PRO3HD44M.html

hmmm not sure. Maybe some other people on here or other website/forums can answer your questions.

Their customer support and tech support are listed on their website. I would call them so you can get direct accurate answers, that's what I do.

Their phone numbers for U.S. and international calls are in the link below:
http://www.atlona.com/help.php?secti...us&mode=update

12-15-2012, 11:11 AM	#328
Tech-UK Blu-ray Guru Top ranked HT gallery Top contributor Member since:Sep 2010 Location:UK Home Theater Gallery:75 Blu-ray collection:290 Trading Score:22	30, 36 or 48-bit (Deep Color) are just replicated bits encoded by the BD player, thus that additional information isn't on the disc. Last edited by Tech-UK; 12-15-2012 at 01:54 PM.

12-15-2012, 10:14 PM	#329
Pondosinatra Blu-ray Samurai Member since:Jun 2008 Location:Calgary, Alberta Home Theater Gallery:14 Trading Score:2	Ok, so here's a question. Right now I have my 23FD hooked up directly to my Kuro. But in a few months when I move I'm going to end up sending the data through a video matrix box. Now what? How does adding yet another device in between affect things? Modern Pioneer Kuro PDP-5020FD TV Pioneer BDP-23FD Blu-Ray Pioneer VSX-32 Receiver Old School Sony KD-34XS955 TV Pioneer HLD-X9 Laserdisc Player

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12-13-2012, 05:41 PM	#322
oppopioneer Special Member Member since:Mar 2010	I just watched Point Break on dvd on my Pio Kuro plasma and Pio bdp-23FD. I had the bd player set to RGB 16-235 and Source Direct. I had my Kuro plasma set to Color Space-3 RGB 16-235 with Film Mode-Advance on. It looked like I was watching it in the theater on a movie screen. The Pio plasmas duplicates and replicates film authentically, it was amazing to see all the pops, scratches, film grain as the original source and how it upconverts dvd. I don't own any blurays yet. I rent all my blurays. So I haven't watched any blurays with the above settings enacted yet.

12-14-2012, 08:26 PM	#325
oppopioneer Special Member Member since:Mar 2010	Teck-UK, do you know what color space the Panasonic plasmas do their sampling or converting in? I think I read that it's in 4:2:2, so I would assume it's best to switch the bd player to Color Space 4:2:2 if you have a Panasonic plasma and want the less processing or?

12-15-2012, 02:11 AM	#327
oppopioneer Special Member Member since:Mar 2010	What do you think of this quote posted by a member over at avs. Do you agree with it below? "This is why I said that differences -- hopefully improvement, but there's no guarantee -- for use of Deep Color 30 or 36 bit will be "subtle". There is no content data in those extra, low order bits. What's in there is essentially rounding data from the intermediate results of the video processing that happens between the disc and the pixels on the display. As you are probably aware, better video processors maintain more than 24 bits per pixel in their processing path. In many cases the bit width of the video processing actually exceeds what the physical display elements are capable of rendering, but the idea is to keep artifacts from creeping into the process due to truncation BEFORE you get to the pixels. Now, if some processing is happening in the player and other processing is happening in the display (which is always the case), wouldn't it be better to preserve the rounding bits of those intermediate results across the HDMI cable? Or must they be truncated to just 24 bits per pixel simply because they are crossing the cable? That's the theory behind Deep Color as applied to current commercial content. It MIGHT produce better results, but it can't produce DRAMATICALLY better results because there's no content data in those added, low order bits. Just rounding. And then the people who authored the video deliberately structured it assuming 24 bits per pixel (if they were doing their job right). So will such rounding retention even be noticeable? And then some devices just do lip-service to Deep Color -- accepting 30 or 36 bit input but simply lopping off the extra low order bits as the first step in their internal processing! And then some devices have bugs which cause them to screw up for some Deep Color choices but not for others. So in theory, Deep Color shouldn't hurt, but at best it won't produce dramatically better results unless something (bugs) is screwing up the processing of the lower bit width choices. And Deep Color 30 or 36 bit does put more bandwidth on the HDMI cable, which makes HDMI problems more likely, particularly for long cable runs. So the bottom line is that you simply have to check and SEE which combo(s) of data format and Deep Color width works best for the video going through YOUR AVR and into YOUR Display. But if you can't see a reason to prefer Deep Color 30 or 36 bit, then leave Deep Color OFF because that makes the HDMI function more reliably. YCbCr 4:2:2 and YCbCr 4:4:4 have the same data rate (bandwidth) on HDMI for a given image resolution -- 24 bits per pixel with Deep Color OFF. 4:2:2 is transmitted with padding bits."

12-20-2012, 02:21 AM	#332
oppopioneer Special Member Member since:Mar 2010	Questions regarding BDMV/BDAV playback priority. Where do I need to set this too for proper playback or bd's and dvd's? I read that all commercial BD movies use the BDMV structure. I'm not sure what BDMV and BDAV and how it effects playback. Does it have an impact on PQ and SQ? Mind you, my Pio Kuro plasma is NOT hooked up to a reciever and amp, just a Pio bd player.