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Old 04-03-2015, 12:09 AM   #1861
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cakefactory View Post
The original movie's characters are absolutely two dimensional, Bruce Campbell (god love him) is SO bad in that movie, his only character traits are being a terrible actor and being a wimp. He's a pure cartoon character, and the other three are less laughably bad of actors but have even less-defined personalities. No one really has a personality until the second movie.

I prefer the first movie to the second, by the way, so I don't think it's a PROBLEM that they are two dimensional, I just don't get how you can use that as a major problem with the remake when the first was at least as shallow. Ah well. The remake is worth watching if you haven't seen it; clearly most people think it is nothing in comparison, but I think there's a lot to like there.
Agreed. What makes the original such a classic is the uniqueness of it, not the characters. The direction, the creepiness, the grindhouse quality, all more than make up for the characters.

As for the remake, I'm actually a huge fan of it because they didn't try to copy the original, but instead tried a different angle with the drug addiction story (which I think really added to it). Also Jane Levy does a hell (no pun intended) of a job!
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Old 04-03-2015, 03:11 AM   #1862
Oblivion138 Oblivion138 is offline
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The other thing is that the movie is full of Christian terms and symbolism, both in the Necronomicon, and in the characters' discussion of it. It's all about "hell" and "the devil" and such. Which couples nicely with the depiction of the Deadites as refugees from an Exorcist moive, but has absolutely nothing to do with the mythology of the original series.
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Old 04-03-2015, 06:21 PM   #1863
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Originally Posted by Mystic View Post
I don't think a Producer's credit is enough to convince anyone that the remake reflects Raimi's vision. Let me give you an example, if you recall the remake of John Carpenter's the Fog. Carpenter has a producer's credit on the remake, would you say the remake reflects his original vision ala the original film? I doubt it. Quoting a marketing tagline for the film doesn't say much either. I understand we all have our opinions...

When the remake proves to be even marginally influential as the original film has been, then maybe I'll agree.
It's more than just a credit though:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Raimi
I worked very closely with him, but gave him room to create everything he needed. For instance, I asked Fede and Rodo to give us a pitch of the treatment that they wanted to tell, and then I told them that I was planning to get another writer to write the screenplay. But their draft was so good, we decided to let them write the first draft screenplay. Rob, Bruce and myself gave them notes and they took those notes and incorporated them into a second draft. I think the same is true with the cut of the picture. I always maintained final cut, but Bruce, Rob and I really gave notes but never overrode Fede artistically, because we so respected his vision. And I think there has to be only one director on a picture. And it was him, always him.
https://www.yahoo.com/movies/bp/exclusive-interview-sam-raimi-conjures-evil-dead-180729608.html


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Originally Posted by Oblivion138 View Post
Please explain how it's a nitpick to point out that these things are complete divergences from what the original trilogy established. If it changes the entire tone, and makes the movie feel like it's not a part of the same cinematic universe as the original films (which I feel it does), how is that nitpicky?
You see them as complete divergences that change the entire tone, I see them as nitpicks (and hyperbole, especially to say it feels like it's not part of the same cinematic universe!). To me these are little details that they changed, possibly to differentiate it from the original trilogy so that it has its own style.

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Originally Posted by Oblivion138 View Post
And if the director did anything interesting, that would be great. I didn't say that I wanted the director to copy Raimi's technique. I just would've liked to see the same level of creativity from him. But it just isn't there. Pretty much anyone could have directed the remake. Its execution of run-of-the-mill. I don't really see a director "doing his own thing," in the sense that he has a particular sense of style or showmanship. That's what's missing. Not Raimi's specific technique, but a level of creative energy to match Raimi's in the original series.
We'll just have to agree to disagree. I'm going to side with Raimi on my opinion of Fede:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Raimi
I instantly sensed that he was a great storyteller, really sharp, funny, sincere, wanted to really entertain the audience in a new way...I never saw so clearly in my life the right guy for the job when I met him.
http://herocomplex.latimes.com/movie...t-for-the-job/
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Old 04-03-2015, 07:00 PM   #1864
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While not the greatest remake ever, the film gets a lot right by both carving out its own path and by Subverting the expectations of those familiar with the original. It is not one of these lazy scene for scenes copies a lot of remakes are these days. I think the film starts poorly, the first twenty minutes are a bit of a mess, but once the character becomes possessed it's great fun.
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Old 04-03-2015, 10:22 PM   #1865
Oblivion138 Oblivion138 is offline
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Originally Posted by lolwut View Post
You see them as complete divergences that change the entire tone, I see them as nitpicks (and hyperbole, especially to say it feels like it's not part of the same cinematic universe!). To me these are little details that they changed, possibly to differentiate it from the original trilogy so that it has its own style.
When Deadites sound just like Linda Blair, and nothing like Deadites, it is not hyperbole to say not only that they don't belong to the same cinematic universe as the original trilogy, but they they belong more aptly to a completely different cinematic universe...that of the Exorcist films.

Bear in mind that I went in prepared to love this movie. Festival reactions were so positive, I thought it must be pretty damn great. I was just completely underwhelmed by it.


Quote:
We'll just have to agree to disagree. I'm going to side with Raimi on my opinion of Fede:

http://herocomplex.latimes.com/movie...t-for-the-job/
Fair enough...though an example of something truly creative that he did in his direction might be helpful.


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Originally Posted by Todd Tomorrow View Post
While not the greatest remake ever, the film gets a lot right by both carving out its own path and by Subverting the expectations of those familiar with the original. It is not one of these lazy scene for scenes copies a lot of remakes are these days. I think the film starts poorly, the first twenty minutes are a bit of a mess, but once the character becomes possessed it's great fun.
I thought the set-up was okay, aside from the Necronomicon looking ridiculous. It's once the characters get possessed that it stops feeling like an Evil Dead film altogether. It is great fun at that point, sure...in an over-the-top gore flick way...it just doesn't feel like Evil Dead to me.
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Old 04-04-2015, 08:15 PM   #1866
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Originally Posted by Oblivion138 View Post
Fair enough...though an example of something truly creative that he did in his direction might be helpful.
I can't speak for Sam Raimi but what I liked about the direction was how relentlessly paced it was once the action starts. No lulls in the action to relax, no comic relief to defuse the tension. It was extremely entertaining as well - I don't know if you saw it in a packed house like I did it was an intense gory thrill ride that IIRC the audience really got into. For me it nailed the "ultimate experience in grueling terror" part of the original.
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Old 04-04-2015, 10:14 PM   #1867
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Originally Posted by lolwut View Post
I can't speak for Sam Raimi but what I liked about the direction was how relentlessly paced it was once the action starts. No lulls in the action to relax, no comic relief to defuse the tension. It was extremely entertaining as well - I don't know if you saw it in a packed house like I did it was an intense gory thrill ride that IIRC the audience really got into. For me it nailed the "ultimate experience in grueling terror" part of the original.
There's nothing creative about a fast pace, though.
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Old 04-04-2015, 11:43 PM   #1868
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Originally Posted by Oblivion138 View Post
There's nothing creative about a fast pace, though.
But it would still fall under the "Creative Control" banner. So while quick pacing isn't in itself "Creative" it is still a Creative decision. The choice to shoot scenes slow with building tension, or with a break neck quick speed helps to define the picture as a whole, and defines the look and feel of the picture.

Ultimately, it's apparent that you're unwilling to see the film for what it is and appreciate it on it's own merits because it doesn't fit with what you're idea of "The Evil Dead" is supposed to be. Just like you liked the goofball humor of the original films, I found that exact humor a MAJOR down point of the franchise (not to mention not scary on any level) and a big reason why I can easily say I've never rated any of the Evil Dead films above "average at best". I can however look at those films and see why people enjoy them. You are correct, this new film doesn't feel like the original entries... and I'm glad it doesn't.

The original trilogy doesn't need to be expanded upon. It works well just as it is. Rather than retelling the same story again (see all of Hollywood) this new entry takes some of the key moments that made that original trilogy great, and tried to present an entirely new experience. Raimi and Campbell had 2 decades to do a proper Army of Darkness/Evil Dead sequel that continued Ash's story. That boat has sailed (despite what the new tv series is trying to convince us otherwise of.) There's no reason why we shouldn't have a new Evil Dead trilogy that has the opportunity to tell a brand new story while utilizing some of the aspects of the original trilogy.
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Old 04-04-2015, 11:58 PM   #1869
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I enjoyed the remake because it genuinely tries to be scary (and succeeds, imo) while also paying homage to the original films and not trying to just redo what they did to-the-letter.

I've never thought of myself as an Evil Dead fan, and overall I would say I like Sam Raimi's Drag Me to Hell significantly more than the other "official" movies, and Army of Darkness much better than The Evil Dead and Evil Dead II. Overall, I think the reboot is better than all of the ones I mentioned above. I really loved it!
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Old 04-05-2015, 04:57 AM   #1870
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Originally Posted by TripleHBK View Post
But it would still fall under the "Creative Control" banner. So while quick pacing isn't in itself "Creative" it is still a Creative decision. The choice to shoot scenes slow with building tension, or with a break neck quick speed helps to define the picture as a whole, and defines the look and feel of the picture.
And again, what I was looking for was creativity...innovation...personal style...something unique or outside-the-box in the way the film is crafted. None of which I found therein.


Quote:
Ultimately, it's apparent that you're unwilling to see the film for what it is and appreciate it on it's own merits because it doesn't fit with what you're idea of "The Evil Dead" is supposed to be. Just like you liked the goofball humor of the original films, I found that exact humor a MAJOR down point of the franchise (not to mention not scary on any level) and a big reason why I can easily say I've never rated any of the Evil Dead films above "average at best". I can however look at those films and see why people enjoy them. You are correct, this new film doesn't feel like the original entries... and I'm glad it doesn't.
Exactly why I say that this is a movie that tends to be, as far as I can see, loved by people who don't love The Evil Dead.

Again, I went in prepared to love this. I had no preconceived notions of what it should be, and no bias against it. I was very excited to see it, and left the theater feeling deflated.

Humor has nothing to do with it. Comedy is a "take it or leave" proposition when it comes to these movies. The Evil Dead has very little...Evil Dead II has more...and Army of Darkness is more comedy than horror...but there is a constant. And that constant is the irrepressible energy and creativity shown by Sam Raimi and his crew. From crafting special rigs to get shots that couldn't be done traditionally, to crazy sound design that makes no sense but has a visceral effect, Raimi & Co. always went as far as they had to and invented as much as they had to, in order to get the desired effect. I see none of that in the remake. What I see is a gory Exorcist movie set in a cabin.


Quote:
The original trilogy doesn't need to be expanded upon. It works well just as it is. Rather than retelling the same story again (see all of Hollywood) this new entry takes some of the key moments that made that original trilogy great, and tried to present an entirely new experience. Raimi and Campbell had 2 decades to do a proper Army of Darkness/Evil Dead sequel that continued Ash's story. That boat has sailed (despite what the new tv series is trying to convince us otherwise of.) There's no reason why we shouldn't have a new Evil Dead trilogy that has the opportunity to tell a brand new story while utilizing some of the aspects of the original trilogy.
Didn't want to see the same story again. Just wanted to see something with the same sense of creativity. I was fine with the story...I was fine with the addiction angle...I was fine with all of that. But there's nothing special about the filmmaking, and everything feels derivative of other films and franchises, while feeling out of place within the Evil Dead franchise. I'm glad you love it so much. A lot of people did. I'm just not one of them. Sorry.


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Originally Posted by redrunner97 View Post
I enjoyed the remake because it genuinely tries to be scary (and succeeds, imo) while also paying homage to the original films and not trying to just redo what they did to-the-letter.

I've never thought of myself as an Evil Dead fan, and overall I would say I like Sam Raimi's Drag Me to Hell significantly more than the other "official" movies, and Army of Darkness much better than The Evil Dead and Evil Dead II. Overall, I think the reboot is better than all of the ones I mentioned above. I really loved it!
Chalk up another non-fan of the Evil Dead movies who loved the remake. Presumably because it is nothing like the Evil Dead movies.
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Old 04-05-2015, 05:04 AM   #1871
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Movie was awesome, glad it didn't try to be a straight remake.
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Old 04-05-2015, 05:24 AM   #1872
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Just curious...what positive things, other than the crazy, over-the-top gore, can fans of this movie say about it?
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Old 04-05-2015, 11:35 PM   #1873
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Thats easy,practical effects,lighting,cinematography,production design,directing,make up
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Old 04-05-2015, 11:40 PM   #1874
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Originally Posted by conallin666 View Post
Thats easy,practical effects,lighting,cinematography,production design,directing,make up
This. Movie was awesome, if people have problems with that opinion oh well, it's not going to change my mind.
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Old 04-05-2015, 11:47 PM   #1875
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Agreed,it one of my favourite horror movies hands down,the cinematography was especially beautiful
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