Understanding Dialog Normalization

[Big Daddy]

I updated the dialog normalization table in post #2. The table now contains 435 movies. You will notice that some DTS-HD HR and MA movies also have dialog normalization values.

[nateo200]

Necro post I KNOW but I couldn't find the answer to my question....

Why doesn't DTS allow you to apply anything other than -31dB (No attenuation) when you encode DTS-ES 6.1 with DTS MAS? I don't understand the reason behind that...I have MAS 2.50 BTW.

[mac.21]

If anyone could look up the dial norm value of Captain America that would be wonderful! Thanks!

[Big Daddy]

Originally Posted by mac.21

If anyone could look up the dial norm value of Captain America that would be wonderful! Thanks!

Captain America: The First Avenger
English DTS-HD MA: 0dB
Eng. Descriptive Audio/French/Spanish/Portug. DD: -4dB

[mac.21]

Thanks Big Daddy!

[Big Daddy]

I upgraded the Dialog Normalization table in Post #2. There are currently 615 titles in the list.

[josh6113]

I've got a question regarding your list of movies with dial norm...your list says mission impossible ghost protocol has a dial norm of 0 but I'm watching it now on my system and I saw it at +10.Why is that?

[BIslander]

That hardly seems possible. What receiver are you using and how does it report dialnorm offsets?

[josh6113]

Originally Posted by BIslander

That hardly seems possible. What receiver are you using and how does it report dialnorm offsets?

I'm using a pioneer elite vsx-60 and thats what it said when I played mission impossible:GP...dial norm +10....everything I've read explains dial norm in negative terms not positive. What does +10 mean?

Thx

[BIslander]

I seem to recall reading that Pioneers may compensate for the dialnorm reduction by increasing the volume the same amount. Perhaps that's what the + value means. Do you have to crank up the volume a lot when playing that movie?

Meanwhile, it's hard to image a film like Ghost Protocol would have a DN value of 21, which would tell the decoder to attenuate the output by 10dB. That kind of DN should be associated with something like a loud commercial with very little dynamic range.

[josh6113]

Correct me if I'm wrong but from my understanding if I got a +10 dial norm in ghost protocol then reference level for my system with this movie would be -10 on receiver...correct?...as it is now my pioneer elite vsx-60 is being used by my towers only...no center and surrounds...so my receiver is putting out a little over 145 WPC with just my left and right...and as far as me having to crank it...no I listened at -40 and heard everything great...but to really get enveloped by the movie I would turn it up to -25 or -20...

[BIslander]

I don't know what happens when the multichannel original is downmixed for stereo output. That may have something to do with what you are observing. As a test, what happens if you configure your receiver for 5.1 and play that disc? Does it still report +10?

[josh6113]

Originally Posted by BIslander

I don't know what happens when the multichannel original is downmixed for stereo output. That may have something to do with what you are observing. As a test, what happens if you configure your receiver for 5.1 and play that disc? Does it still report +10?

I'll try that and report back...if it still does what does that mean?... Thx again for the help...

[josh6113]

Well I just tried it and with reciever in 5.1 the dial norm was +4.... Put it back to 2 channel and dial norm is +10...so with that said and if I'm understanding things right in 5.1 with a dial norm of +4 reference would be -4 but in stereo the dial norm is +10 reference would be -10 right?...if so that seems weird but I'll take it...

[BIslander]

I read a Dolby White Paper a few years ago that explained why DN values would change when downmixing multichannel tracks. I'm not finding it with a quick search of the Dolby site now, however.

I'm not sure where you're going with the questions about reference levels. If the Pioneer display saying +4 or +10 means the receiver has adjusted the gain because of the DN offset, then reference won't change at all. Rather, it would mean the playback levels of that particular track have been adjusted down by the decoder and then back up the processor, with no net change. I think.

Meanwhile, there's still a difference between the 0 dB in Big Daddy's chart and the 4dB you are seeing.

[Big Daddy]

I own a Denon AVR-4308CI and a Yamaha RX-A3010. For both DTS and Dolby encoded movies, the Denon receiver always reports the correct dialnorm values as either a zero or a negative number. The most common negative number is -4dB.

The Yamaha receiver shows correct zero or a negative number for DTS encoded movies. For Dolby encoded movies (both Dolby TrueHD and Dolby Digital), a +4dB means that no dialnorm is used. If the Yamaha reports a value of zero for a Dolby encoded movies, it means the dialognorm value is -4dB.

I am not familiar with Pioneer receivers, but a value of +10dB is very strange. You need to contact Pioneer and ask them how their receivers report dialog normalization values.

Ultimately, it really doesn't matter what dialog normalization values the studios used. Adjust the master volume so that that you are comfortable and can hear both the dialog and the special effects. If you are watching a movie at night or the special effects are too loud and the dialog is too low, you may want to turn on the dynamic range control.