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Old 01-30-2016, 02:14 AM   #481
Ambler1980 Ambler1980 is offline
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Originally Posted by BillieCassin View Post
And if I were Lionsgate, I'd say: "You are in luck, wormraper - we already offer the audio content you are looking for in our retail Blu-rays which are widely available for purchase from national retailers."

I think some folks miss the point here. If you want the "premium" experience, you have to pay for it. If you just want a $2 rental, you'll get $2 worth of rental and take whatever audio they give you.

As others have pointed out, the amount of households that can even play the advanced codecs is tiny compared to those who cannot, this is a non-issue because it only affects the subset of folks who do care, and the solution is already available (go buy it then).

This is nothing more than "I don't want to pay, so cater to me, the minority who is both cheap and demanding".
It's scary to think people actually believe this.

Your logic makes no sense when you consider the following:

You seem to be assuming there is this overriding setup of premium (lossless) vs standard (lossy). The problem is, not every Lionsgate/Summit rental title has downsampled audio. They only seem to randomly choose which discs to strip down. So you may rent a Lionsgate disc and get lossless, or you may get lossy, it's completely random.

Which destroys the idea of premium vs standard, since there is no consistency among the rental discs. To create that kind of branding, you need consistency to let the consumer know that when they rent a Lionsgate disc, they will be getting lossy audio, and need to buy to get "premium" audio. But sometimes they get lossless when renting a disc, so that destroys the strategy.

Think about it, if Lionsgate had this theoretical plan to make people buy blurays instead of renting them because of lossy audio tracks, why don't they strip every one of their rental discs of lossless audio? That's not a business plan because there's no consistency.

To put it another way, sometimes $2 worth of renal is lossless, sometimes $2 worth of rental is lossy. So this idea of "worth" in rental vs. purchase is a ludicrous notion, you are still usually getting lossless. That being said, it's crazy to think that consumers such as ourselves are being unreasonable to expect Lionsgate to give us lossless rentals 100% of the time instead of 70% of the time. That's just bad business, not a business being strategic and valuating their product as you seem to believe.

And to this idea that I'm being "cheap" because I'd prefer to rent a movie instead of buying it is an insult. I simply don't want to own certain movies, for my own reasons, and that has nothing to do with me being "cheap". You do realize rich people rent movies from netflix/redbox? They can clearly afford to buy every title, so why don't they? Because renting allows you to watch something once or twice and not have it take up space on your video rack.
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Old 01-30-2016, 02:33 AM   #482
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I just got a netflix account for bluray rental, rented John Wick and Sphere. I was shocked when I saw Wick only contained a DD 5.1 640kbps mix, when the review on this site said it had a TrueHD track. I felt lied to. I had no idea this was going on. I signed up specifically so I could enjoy lossless audio tracks!

Fortunately Sphere has the TrueHD track as promised. But this is pretty ourtageous.

Is this just Lionsgate/Summit titles?
Actually, John Wick has a Dolby Atmos soundtrack on the retail release, which will automatically down convert to Dolby TrueHD 7.1 on incompatible receivers.
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Old 01-30-2016, 12:57 PM   #483
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Its easy. If they can cram a movie onto a BD25 by dumping lossless, they do it.
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Old 01-30-2016, 01:31 PM   #484
HD Goofnut HD Goofnut is offline
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Its easy. If they can cram a movie onto a BD25 by dumping lossless, they do it.
Yep, I figured that out about 3 years ago.
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Old 01-30-2016, 01:40 PM   #485
elwaylite elwaylite is offline
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Yep, I figured that out about 3 years ago.
Exactly. No need to overthink the conspiracy.
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Old 01-30-2016, 01:51 PM   #486
Ambler1980 Ambler1980 is offline
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Its easy. If they can cram a movie onto a BD25 by dumping lossless, they do it.
But doesn't it take more effort (money) to do this rather than just leaving it alone? Why bother? What is the end game for them?
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Old 01-30-2016, 01:55 PM   #487
elwaylite elwaylite is offline
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But doesn't it take more effort (money) to do this rather than just leaving it alone? Why bother? What is the end game for them?
When a consumer rips a movie, its a few mouse clicks to drop extras, etc... Id imagine its the same for them.

Id also think they send out the BD25 to the rental chain and charge the same amount for a BD50 movie (netflix, redbox, etc...), so they save $$$.
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Old 01-30-2016, 03:16 PM   #488
Ambler1980 Ambler1980 is offline
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When a consumer rips a movie, its a few mouse clicks to drop extras, etc... Id imagine its the same for them.

Id also think they send out the BD25 to the rental chain and charge the same amount for a BD50 movie (netflix, redbox, etc...), so they save $$$.
One thing I notice is that on the netflix bluray rental page for movies, they often don't indicate HD audio, even though the bluray is supposed to have it. I have just put Jumper in my queue and this site says it has a DTS-HD track, but the info page on netflix only indicates DTS 5.1, not DTS-HD, which it does show for certain movies. I am also about to add Hellboy which is supposed to have an uncompressed LPCM 5.1 track, but that is not indicated on the netflix page. Are they just mislabeling these, or am I about to get another stripped down bluray?

Last edited by Ambler1980; 01-30-2016 at 03:23 PM.
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Old 01-30-2016, 03:21 PM   #489
disneywildcat disneywildcat is offline
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Originally Posted by elwaylite View Post

Id also think they send out the BD25 to the rental chain and charge the same amount for a BD50 movie (netflix, redbox, etc...), so they save $$$.
Unlikely, as the point of Redbox (and others) buying their copies directly from LionsGate and other studios is lower costs and/or lower risk (whether it be at a wholesale price or some sort of revenue sharing agreement).

Redbox buys their copies of Disney distributed films at from retail stores, as Disney will not sell copies directly to Redbox and other rental stores/services unless they agree to a 28 day delay. Hence, there tends to be fewer copies of Disney distributed films available at Redbox.

http://articles.latimes.com/2012/jun...tflix-20120607

http://deadline.com/2015/03/warner-b...ay-1201401212/

Last edited by disneywildcat; 01-30-2016 at 03:28 PM.
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Old 01-30-2016, 08:51 PM   #490
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One thing I notice is that on the netflix bluray rental page for movies, they often don't indicate HD audio, even though the bluray is supposed to have it. I have just put Jumper in my queue and this site says it has a DTS-HD track, but the info page on netflix only indicates DTS 5.1, not DTS-HD, which it does show for certain movies. I am also about to add Hellboy which is supposed to have an uncompressed LPCM 5.1 track, but that is not indicated on the netflix page. Are they just mislabeling these, or am I about to get another stripped down bluray?
You can eliminate a lot of uncertainties when streaming from Netflix, if you just get the blu-ray and you know exactly what you're going to get every time, without any doubts. Make it easy on yourself! Besides, Netflix audio and video is compressed anyway, so the A/V quality on the blu-ray will be superior. If you have a home theater, and want to see your movies in their best of quality available, get the blu-ray because, Netflix or any other streaming service is not it.

Last edited by slimdude; 01-30-2016 at 09:04 PM.
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Old 01-30-2016, 09:24 PM   #491
Ambler1980 Ambler1980 is offline
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You can eliminate a lot of uncertainties when streaming from Netflix, if you just get the blu-ray and you know exactly what you're going to get every time, without any doubts. Make it easy on yourself! Besides, Netflix audio and video is compressed anyway, so the A/V quality on the blu-ray will be superior. If you have a home theater, and want to see your movies in their best of quality available, get the blu-ray because, Netflix or any other streaming service is not it.
I don't have a streaming plan, I exclusively rent blurays from netflix. My question was if they're just mislabeling their titles, or should I expected a bunch of stripped down soundtracks.
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Old 01-30-2016, 09:36 PM   #492
steve_dave steve_dave is offline
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I don't have a streaming plan, I exclusively rent blurays from netflix. My question was if they're just mislabeling their titles, or should I expected a bunch of stripped down soundtracks.
Lionsgate blu-rays, and by extension films distributed on blu-ray by Lionsgate, are the only ones that will be 50/50 on getting DTS-HD MA/Dolby TrueHD/PCM audio.

Some newer releases on Blu-ray (read within last four years) may not have special features from other studios/distributors. However, these will still have DTS-HD MA/Dolby TrueHD/PCM audio.
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Old 01-30-2016, 10:11 PM   #493
Ambler1980 Ambler1980 is offline
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Lionsgate blu-rays, and by extension films distributed on blu-ray by Lionsgate, are the only ones that will be 50/50 on getting DTS-HD MA/Dolby TrueHD/PCM audio.

Some newer releases on Blu-ray (read within last four years) may not have special features from other studios/distributors. However, these will still have DTS-HD MA/Dolby TrueHD/PCM audio.
Thanks.
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Old 01-31-2016, 08:34 AM   #494
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It's still possible to rent Blu-ray's in some cities???
The very last video rental shop in my city closed up last spring.
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Old 01-31-2016, 03:00 PM   #495
disneywildcat disneywildcat is offline
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It's still possible to rent Blu-ray's in some cities???

The very last video rental shop in my city closed up last spring.

Smaller cities and towns (such as the city I live in Western ND). But yeah, most larger cities don't have video rentals stores with Blu-rays.

Most larger cities will have libraries that have Blu-rays in their catalog. But it's still very YMMV on their selection (as libraries tend to get more DVD copies), and some even get the rental versions of both formats to save money.
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Old 02-10-2016, 03:49 AM   #496
WhySoBlu? WhySoBlu? is online now
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Originally Posted by Ambler1980 View Post
It's scary to think people actually believe this.

Your logic makes no sense when you consider the following:

You seem to be assuming there is this overriding setup of premium (lossless) vs standard (lossy). The problem is, not every Lionsgate/Summit rental title has downsampled audio. They only seem to randomly choose which discs to strip down. So you may rent a Lionsgate disc and get lossless, or you may get lossy, it's completely random.
Just because you can't see a pattern does not mean the actions are random.

They've clearly chosen to do this on their larger titles - your Twilights, your Hunger Games, your John Wicks, your Sicarios, etc. etc. You know, the titles that tend to sell well on home video (which just so happen to be the titles where they tend to make all of their money.)

Makes sense to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ambler1980 View Post
Which destroys the idea of premium vs standard, since there is no consistency among the rental discs. To create that kind of branding, you need consistency to let the consumer know that when they rent a Lionsgate disc, they will be getting lossy audio, and need to buy to get "premium" audio. But sometimes they get lossless when renting a disc, so that destroys the strategy.

Think about it, if Lionsgate had this theoretical plan to make people buy blurays instead of renting them because of lossy audio tracks, why don't they strip every one of their rental discs of lossless audio? That's not a business plan because there's no consistency.
For the titles not likely to sell that many copies to begin with, it probably doesn't make financial sense to run separate pressings, whereas it would be less of an issue if they're already pumping out hundreds of thousands or even millions of copies of a title. This isn't rocket science here.

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Originally Posted by Ambler1980 View Post
To put it another way, sometimes $2 worth of renal is lossless, sometimes $2 worth of rental is lossy. So this idea of "worth" in rental vs. purchase is a ludicrous notion, you are still usually getting lossless. That being said, it's crazy to think that consumers such as ourselves are being unreasonable to expect Lionsgate to give us lossless rentals 100% of the time instead of 70% of the time. That's just bad business, not a business being strategic and valuating their product as you seem to believe.
On their flagship titles, if you want lossless audio and extras, you're going to have to pay for it - either by purchasing the title or by renting from a more expensive service. It's just that simple.

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Originally Posted by Ambler1980 View Post
And to this idea that I'm being "cheap" because I'd prefer to rent a movie instead of buying it is an insult. I simply don't want to own certain movies, for my own reasons, and that has nothing to do with me being "cheap". You do realize rich people rent movies from netflix/redbox? They can clearly afford to buy every title, so why don't they? Because renting allows you to watch something once or twice and not have it take up space on your video rack.
I've already addressed this here:
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Originally Posted by WhySoBlu? View Post
Not to speak for others, but I think the accusations of being cheap have less to do with renting, and more to do with only being willing to rent from the cheapest options available. It's hard to demand the best if you're only willing to pay bottom-dollar prices. To use your analogy, it would be like a customer who wants to pay $15 a day for a rental car demanding that he get a fully-loaded Caddy or Mercedes.


This site rents full retail BDs, including 3D BDs. The catch is you have to pay more to rent them. I wonder how many of you who are complaining about this will start renting from them...
Here we are, almost a year after I made this post. I wonder how many of the people who have been complaining have used the site I mentioned above...

Last edited by WhySoBlu?; 02-10-2016 at 04:05 AM.
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Old 02-13-2016, 10:38 AM   #497
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It's still possible to rent Blu-ray's in some cities???
The very last video rental shop in my city closed up last spring.
There aren't any Redbox machines around you?
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Old 02-13-2016, 12:56 PM   #498
elwaylite elwaylite is offline
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I can throw a rock and hit 5 RB machines.
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Old 02-13-2016, 02:14 PM   #499
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I can throw a rock and hit 5 RB machines.
besides redbox, they just put in a new kiosk call "insta-flicks" also i rent from gamefly
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Old 02-13-2016, 06:18 PM   #500
disneywildcat disneywildcat is offline
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Default Lionsgate removing DTS-HD Audio from its rentals

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There aren't any Redbox machines around you?
Redbox doesn't offer the selection that video rental stores in their heyday did.

Sure, many public libraries offer a wide selection of movies, but YMMV on Blu-rays (I definitely can't trust my local library on their Blu-ray selection). And some have started purchasing rental versions of new films.
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