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Old 12-15-2008, 05:29 AM   #121
leov36 leov36 is offline
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i agree with the people mentioning the quality of the tv making a bigger difference than resolution alone.
i have a 720p projector, using a 84inch screen from 10 feet away, when my buddies come over they say, wow, is that 1080p?, i say sure. lol
i KNOW if i were to have a quality 1080p projector set side to side with mine, the 1080 would win hands down, but theres not one there, so im happy with what i got, and you should be too
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Old 12-15-2008, 09:40 AM   #122
Afrobean Afrobean is offline
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Something else about the resolution differences is that some things are more noticeable in improvement from 720 to 1080.

I did a mockup of a 1920 wide promotional screencap image of the Joker from The Dark Knight, and I was going to post it on another forum to show off how much better 1080p is than resolutions, but the 720p equivalent resolution version I threw together looked amazing already (although I must admit the low res SD mockup looked terrible). I honestly couldn't tell the difference right away and it took me switching back and forth to notice the faintest difference in the depth of the wrinkles in his forehead as the only cue I could pick up. This was using my 42 inch 1080p screen as a computer monitor from a distance of about 3 feet. I made a sample image specifically made to show off the difference in resolution, and that showed through well, but in actual practice of displaying real film footage, 1080 simply doesn't have that much of an advantage.

It's kind of absurd really. The technical advantage of 1080 over 720 is greater than 720 over 480, but the simple fact is that 720 looks great already. When it becomes commercially viable to have 4K TV sets, will people crucify others for only having 2K or 1080p sets? It's just crazy. Especially for smaller size sets. The added cost to get 1080 on a small set that's going to be watched from relatively far away anyway is absolutely not worth it.
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Old 12-15-2008, 01:31 PM   #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BluMood View Post
If you are going to buy a screen that is smaller than 50 inches then it will be hard to tell the difference. I would ALWAYS rather watch 720P over 1080i. On my 50 inch I can see that darn "gritty" interlace of 1080i.
That's because your TV is failing either 3:2 cadence detection or de-interlacing. Most 1080i broadcast sources come from a 1080p source that is converted to 1080i using 3:2 inversion.

Here is a list of sets that will accept 1080i60 and properly convert back to 1080p24.

Fujitsu P50XTA51UB 50” Plasma
Fujitsu P63XTA51US 63” Plasma
Hitachi 55HDS69 55” Plasma (in Auto Film Mode only)
JVC HD526887 52” LCOS
JVC HD56C97 56” 1080p LCOS (with HDMI only)
JVC HD56S998 56” 1080p LCOS (with HDMI only)
Maxent MX42HPT51 42” 768p Plasma
Mitsubishi WD-73733 73” 1080p DLP
Pioneer KURO plasma (all sets – in 72Hz Pure Cinema mode)
Pioneer PRO-950 50” 768p Plasma (in Advanced mode only)
Pioneer PDP-5070 50” 768p Plasma
Pioneer PRO-FH1 50” 1080p Plasma
Polaroid FLM3732 37” LCD
Samsung LN-T4081F 40” 1080p LCD
Sharp LC37D62U 37” 1080p LCD (with HDMI in Film Mode only – advanced user menu)
Sharp LC42D62 42” 1080p LCD (in Film Mode only – advanced user menu)
Sharp LC42D63 42” 1080p LCD
Sharp LC46D64U 46” 1080p LCD (in Film Mode only – advanced user menu)
Sharp LC52D64U 52” 1080p LCD (in Film Mode only – advanced user menu)
Sharp LC57D90 57” LCD (fails deinterlacing in Fast mode, passes in Slow mode)
Sony KLV32U100M 32” LCD
Sony KDL32S3000 32” 768p LCD
Sony KDL32S130 32” 768p LCD
Sony KDF37H1000 37” 720p LCD
Sony KDL40S130 40” 768p FPLCD
Sony KDL40S3000 40” 768p LCD
Sony KDL46XBR4 46” 1080p LCD (DRC set to “off” and not in Vivid or Standard mode)
Sony KDL46XBR5 46” 1080p LCD (DRC set to “off” and not in Vivid or Standard mode)
Toshiba 40RF350U 40” 1080p LCD

Quote:
Progressive scan just looks great period. Quality of picture is of upmost concern and 1080P is the only way to go if you have Blu-ray.
Not necessarily:

A 1080p SOURCE will provide the better overall picture, not necessarily a 1080p TV as this shootout shows - http://www.hometheatermag.com/lcds/208hdface/

6 of the best 1080p sets vs. a 768p Pioneer plasma.

That 768p plasma is now discontinued, however it was at a nice price and passed both interlacing and 3:2 tests meaning your HD 1080i broadcasts will look better on it too than 720p of the same source.

If you take a 1080p set that fails deinterlacing tests, lets say for instance it discards all the even lines and doubles up the odd lines, and put it beside a 768p set which passes deinterlacing (and 3:2) and display 1080i content on it, chances are you're getting MORE resolution and a display truer to the original source on the 768p set than you are on the 1080p set.

With Blu-ray at 1080p24 of course it's a totally different story as very little processing is required. However given that some sets get down to under 500 lines of motion resolution there will still be times when the 768p plasma is still resolving more resolution.
The first thing I try to communicate to my crew is that there will be no shaky-cam and no rack zooms, because those techniques are only used to hide the fact that there is no energy. When you eliminate those gimmicks you’re confronted with the reality of the shot you have in front of you, and nine times out of 10 you say to yourself: “This just isn’t working.”
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Old 12-15-2008, 04:38 PM   #124
Blu-Malibu2009 Blu-Malibu2009 is offline
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My parents have a Sony 43 inch, 4:3 aspect projection HDTV from around 5 years ago. It is 1080i. I notice a pretty big difference in clarity when watching HDTV broadcasts on their TV compared to watching HDTV broadcasts on my Sharp 46 inch 1080p LCD. But that probably has more to do with the fact that I got my TV in 2008 while they got theirs in the early 2000's. Or perhaps 1080i just looks like crap. I will admit that when I watch special features, such as the Gotham Tonight features on the TDK Blu-ray, you can't really tell much of a difference between 1080i content and the film content at 1080p. Then again, the TV supposedly upconverts everything to 1080p in the first place. But if you have 1080i or 720p content with a high bitrate and a good codec (VC-1 or AVC), it will look excellent.

Last edited by Blu-Malibu2009; 12-15-2008 at 04:42 PM.
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Old 12-15-2008, 05:08 PM   #125
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@..."Thankfully, being that this is an LCD TV, it wasn't a permanent burn in like with some Plasma displays. But it took a while to get rid of it, and it freaked me out."



^^^^^^ Hows that "special bus".....? And oh ya, thank the lord....
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Old 12-15-2008, 06:01 PM   #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TTUBatfan2008 View Post
I will admit that when I watch special features, such as the Gotham Tonight features on the TDK Blu-ray, you can't really tell much of a difference between 1080i content and the film content at 1080p. Then again, the TV supposedly upconverts everything to 1080p in the first place.
1080i is the same resolution as 1080p, there is no upconverting involved, just deinterlacing.
The first thing I try to communicate to my crew is that there will be no shaky-cam and no rack zooms, because those techniques are only used to hide the fact that there is no energy. When you eliminate those gimmicks you’re confronted with the reality of the shot you have in front of you, and nine times out of 10 you say to yourself: “This just isn’t working.”
~Christopher McQuarrie (Director, Mission: Impossible - Rogue Nation)
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Old 12-15-2008, 06:28 PM   #127
JillyBean819 JillyBean819 is offline
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The absolute pits is switching between playing a game on the PS3 (720p) and playing a game on the Wii (480i...gag). It's almost unbearable to look at.
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Old 12-15-2008, 06:45 PM   #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dobyblue View Post
1080i is the same resolution as 1080p, there is no upconverting involved, just deinterlacing.
Ah yes, that is true. I have a 1080i HD DVD player but it is deinterlaced to 1080p with my TV.
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Old 12-20-2008, 04:04 PM   #129
U4K61 U4K61 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ALLIANCE68 View Post
1080p NEEDS SCREEN SIZE TO MATCH
Think of it this way. your tv is graph paper.
720p is 1" squares, just to make it easy.
1080p is 1/2" squares double the resolution.

Squares and Viewing Distance:

720p is about 1,000,000 pixels and 1080p ~2,000,000, so 1080p is 2x over 720p. 1/2 +1/2 = 1 in a linear realtionship, as in a number line, which are powers of 1. But we are dealing with an area which is a power of 2. So there would actually be four 1/2" squares fitting inside 1" squares on the graph paper, suggesting 1080p is 4x over 720p, which it is not. Look at the image below of a 4X4 image upscaled to 8X8. You can also see why I would rather convert 480p to 960p with black bars on all 4 sides of the image rather then filling entire screen of a 1080p set.

Square Numbers
The Number Line
Cartesian Coordinates

To get two equal squares to exactly fill the area of a larger square, we have the formula for doubling a square with side of length 'a' for a square of length 'x': x^2 = 2a^2

However, the idea of squares is interesting. If you are at some optimum viewing distance n from your square pixel 16:9 1080p set and cut that distance to n/2, you would need a set with 4k resolution. n/4 would be 8k. The amount of information you can see goes down when you increase distance, and goes up the when you dicrease distance, following the point-source Inverse-Square Law



Viewing Distance Chart
Visible Resolution Limits (photobucket.com)
Viewing Distance Thread


See also the Delian Problem, Doubling the Cube.

Back to Vewing Distance

Last edited by U4K61; 05-21-2010 at 07:29 PM.
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Old 12-22-2008, 06:02 AM   #130
RiseDarthVader RiseDarthVader is offline
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Default From what size are HDTVs 1080p?

I know that there is a certain size that HDTVs actually reach 1080p and anything below that size is just 720p. I just want to know how many inches is it onwards that HDTVs are actually 1080p.

Thanks in advance.
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Old 12-22-2008, 06:09 AM   #131
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Pretty much 32+ all LCD and none are cheap.


http://www.amazon.com/s/qid=12299296...n%3A1232881011

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Old 12-22-2008, 06:24 AM   #132
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Theres been a couple 32" 1080p tv's out along with some 37" 1080p , at that size it's a waist of money, IMO. Anyone who ownes one will tell you differnt (of corse)...
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Last edited by Sonny; 12-22-2008 at 06:28 AM.
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Old 12-22-2008, 06:30 AM   #133
undertaker76 undertaker76 is offline
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it has somthing to do with seating distance as well. however one example on a graph said for me to see 1080p on my 40" sony v series i'd have to sit 5ft away. but at almost double that i CAN see a major diffrence between 720p and 1080p. but the common screen size for 1080p is 46" according 2 many people here .but i had a 720p 50" rear projection tv and was amazed how much more detail i saw on my new 40" 1080p .my experience says big screen big grain its amazing what 10" diffrence make as i tell my wife lol

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Old 12-22-2008, 09:12 AM   #134
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The reason why a 1080p screen might be desired on a smaller size wouldn't just be for a sharper image.

Quote:
but at almost double that i CAN see a major diffrence between 720p and 1080p.
You're glossing over one of the major good points of 1080p when you think the way you are.

It's not just higher resolution image. It's also smaller pixels.

The specific content also has to be considered. Some things show 1080p's strengths more than others. I know I made a mockup image to compare a while back and I couldn't EASILY tell the difference between the 1080p native image and the 720p upscaled image. Both looked good.

But I was still looking at the 720p equivalent image scaled up on a 1080p screen.

Either way, the real thing to consider here is if you're willing to cut corners to get a much cheaper price, or if you're rather pay top dollar for the best-there-is (even if the "betterness" of it isn't constantly apparent). But remember, even though 1080p is technically better, 720 is still HD too.
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Old 12-22-2008, 09:54 AM   #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Afrobean View Post
Either way, the real thing to consider here is if you're willing to cut corners to get a much cheaper price, or if you're rather pay top dollar for the best-there-is (even if the "betterness" of it isn't constantly apparent). But remember, even though 1080p is technically better, 720 is still HD too.
It is indeed. And it looks terrific on my Panny 42".
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Old 12-22-2008, 06:30 PM   #136
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But we all don't have the same vision. I sit where I feel is best while viewing. Best chart for me!
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Old 12-22-2008, 06:39 PM   #137
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Seems the that 1080i/p section is about right. I just got a new tv saturday and the manual says for a 50 inch, 7 ft away...
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Old 12-23-2008, 01:52 AM   #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RiseDarthVader View Post
I know that there is a certain size that HDTVs actually reach 1080p and anything below that size is just 720p. I just want to know how many inches is it onwards that HDTVs are actually 1080p.

Thanks in advance.
I really don't see the point of the question? You can get 1080p or 720p (768p) on just about any size set you want. There is no "under this size TV, all are 720p" type of size. You can get 1080p in a 22" set, if you want.

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Old 12-23-2008, 01:59 AM   #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by undertaker76 View Post
however one example on a graph said for me to see 1080p on my 40" sony v series i'd have to sit 5ft away. but at almost double that i CAN see a major diffrence between 720p and 1080p.
By this, you mean you've viewed the exact same content on the same brand TV's, one being 720p and the other being 1080p at the same viewing distance? If you simply mean that you could tell a difference between 720p and 1080p content on the same 1080p set, then this has nothing to do with the chart to which you are referring.

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Old 12-23-2008, 03:35 PM   #140
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Smallest 1080p TV I know is 26".

There are also the Samsung TOC series monitors with HDMI, HDCP, and TV-tuner at 22" and 24" that are 1080p. Price is $400+ for the smaller.
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