REALLY in a quandry about buying a TV...

[dmaul1114]

Originally Posted by Steelmaker

Question, can the top of the line plasmas get as dynamic, sharp, and have as much "pop" as the better LED TV's?

I guess thats my issue with plasma, based on my viewings at the store. Plus for those who are saying "oh you cant go by the store display." Well like I said before, the VT50 that I saw at Best Buy was in one of their theater rooms and I verified that it was set to THX Cinema mode. The picture looked nice but to my eyes it was somewhat soft and understated compared to the Samsung. The Samsung's image was sharper, it seemed to show more fine detail, and just had a "wow" factor that the plasma didn't. Even my wife made the comment "wow that image looks real." Yes the plasma had darker blacks but imo that is not the be all end all to a TV's image qualiy.

As noted above, I just returned a 55" Panny plasma for a 55" Panny LED (edge lit) due to buzzing and IR issues on the former.

The LED is definitely brighter and colors do pop more. The plasma was a bit dimmer and softer, more film like. While the LED looks more life like. And that's with an edge-lit set, a full array one would be even brighter and pop even more.

That's really just a matter of what you prefer. People who watch a ton of movies often prefer the film-like look of plasmas. Some who watch mostly TV, sports, play games etc. prefer the brighter more life-like look of LED/LCD. While some hate it and call it a "soap opera effect." So there's not a right or wrong answer. Just comes down to what you prefer on that front.


But overall, you shouldn't be struggling on your decision. You've said you game a lot and worry about IR, and you like a brighter set.

Go LED and stay away from plasma. IR will be an issue if you are gaming for hours on end--at least with Panasonic. Apparently the Samsung plasmas are more resistant to IR--but tend to buzz louder than the Panny's. And you won't get a plasma that's as bright as a decent LED as that's just the nature of the technology.

I'm super pleased that I decided to ditch the plasma as I like the brighter picture and there was no way I could live with the buzzing and IR (watch a ton of ESPN and play a lot of games) on the plasma.

So go LED and start struggling over which one to get rather than what type of TV to get.

[Steelmaker]

Originally Posted by dmaul1114

As noted above, I just returned a 55" Panny plasma for a 55" Panny LED (edge lit) due to buzzing and IR issues on the former.

The LED is definitely brighter and colors do pop more. The plasma was a bit dimmer and softer, more film like. While the LED looks more life like. And that's with an edge-lit set, a full array one would be even brighter and pop even more.

That's really just a matter of what you prefer. People who watch a ton of movies often prefer the film-like look of plasmas. Some who watch mostly TV, sports, play games etc. prefer the brighter more life-like look of LED/LCD. While some hate it and call it a "soap opera effect." So there's not a right or wrong answer. Just comes down to what you prefer on that front.


But overall, you shouldn't be struggling on your decision. You've said you game a lot and worry about IR, and you like a brighter set.

Go LED and stay away from plasma. IR will be an issue if you are gaming for hours on end--at least with Panasonic. Apparently the Samsung plasmas are more resistant to IR--but tend to buzz louder than the Panny's. And you won't get a plasma that's as bright as a decent LED as that's just the nature of the technology.

I'm super pleased that I decided to ditch the plasma as I like the brighter picture and there was no way I could live with the buzzing and IR (watch a ton of ESPN and play a lot of games) on the plasma.

So go LED and start struggling over which one to get rather than what type of TV to get.

Question, do you watch your movies with the auto motion feature turned on? I hear that most LED's now have a "low" setting that can minimize the soap opera effect. How is the motion on your LED with the auto motion turned off?

[Cbeck]

I have used a regular LCD, an edge lit LED, and a plasma. The plasma had the most disadvantages for me. It had the best black levels, but that is about it. It consumed too much power, the screen was too reflective ( a major consideration unless you watch tv only in a very dark room or at night) and it buzzed, which I found very annoying. I mostly watch the LED now, and I prefer the picture over the plasma. Skin tones on the plasma did not look as natural. My LED has very minimal motion issues and it is just 60 hz.

[dmaul1114]

Originally Posted by Steelmaker

Question, do you watch your movies with the auto motion feature turned on? I hear that most LED's now have a "low" setting that can minimize the soap opera effect. How is the motion on your LED with the auto motion turned off?

I have the motion feature (and all those type of picture enhancements) turned off.

I think it does motion fine. I noticed some blurring the first day I had it after having watched the plasma for two weeks. But I don't notice it at all any more.

But again, I'm not a videophile at all and was upgrading from a 50" LCD RPTV (Sony Wega E-2000 series) that I'd been using for 5-6 years--so I was already accustomed to motion blur. And the Panny ET5 handles motion MUCH better than my old TV.

I don't think the picture on it looks too life like or anything. But I've never noticed soap opera effect on any TV. The only thing that ever gave me that impression was seeing The Hobbit in the 48 FPS.

[ZoetMB]

Originally Posted by wormraper

you're right , I checked the failure rates again, I was off by a few points

as follows

Panasonic 2%
Sanyo 2%
Sylvania 2%
Sony 3%
JVC 3%
Visio 3%
Sharp 3%
Emerson 3%
LG 3%
Insignia 4%
Toshiba 4%
Magnavox 4%
Philips 4%
Viewsonic 4%
Samsung 4%
Westinghous 8%
Polaroid 10 %
Mitsubishi 12%

these were the combined stats between 2007-2011

Source? If it's Consumer Reports, it's going to be biased towards the lowest priced sets, so it's not necessarily reflective of the sets that people on this site would be likely to purchase. And it wouldn't be a "failure rate", which I would define as "no picture" or "no sound", but a rate of having anything go wrong with the set that would require any kind of service. (I think the CR definition is "that you consider serious"). Also remember, that CR readers tend to be "older" and somewhat less tech savvy (even if all the founders of the current computer industry are that age).

Also, since the technology changes so much from year to year, I'm not sure there's much point including the failure rates from older models in the stats.

[wormraper]

Originally Posted by ZoetMB

Source? If it's Consumer Reports, it's going to be biased towards the lowest priced sets, so it's not necessarily reflective of the sets that people on this site would be likely to purchase. And it wouldn't be a "failure rate", which I would define as "no picture" or "no sound", but a rate of having anything go wrong with the set that would require any kind of service. (I think the CR definition is "that you consider serious"). Also remember, that CR readers tend to be "older" and somewhat less tech savvy (even if all the founders of the current computer industry are that age).

Also, since the technology changes so much from year to year, I'm not sure there's much point including the failure rates from older models in the stats.

failure rate, defined as "tv dying or needing service when TV becomes inoperable". and those stats are done by CR. NO source is gonna have 100% dead on stats for the companies because NO company is gonna release their internal stats. as to the "lower end vs. high end". you'd be surprised how many of these "high end" models are in those stats for CR.... and the only real difference in the "high end" models are extra features and processors. the failure prone parts are usually the same (Power supply, panels, circuit boards). it gives us a solid IDEA on the rates and comparisons between companies.
and multiple year stats are VERY much needed, for any company can have year that has next to zero or a massive failure rate due to a good or bad model/s for that time period... these are a conglomorate of total failure rates averaged

[Midnight Rambler]

Originally Posted by Blu-Dog

Let us know your experience in watching reductions in manufacturing plants. Automobiles? Aircraft? Appliances? Manufacturing equipment?

Gladly.

BSID (Industrial Design) - Univ. of Cincinnati
BSME - The General Motors Institute
MSE (Machine Design) - The General Motors Institute

PE in (3) states
Nationally-recognized expert in FMEA/PFMEA

34 years in the automotive industry in various roles including Product Engineering, Advanced Product Design, Manufacturing Engineering, and Quality & Reliability Engineering, to name but a FEW

Or, as I suspect, are you just making assumptions?

Looks like you made another assumption ...

Smack-down complete.

[Blu-Dog]

Originally Posted by Midnight Rambler

Looks like you made another assumption ...

Smack-down complete.

A suspicion is not an assumption. I'm not looking for war, and no one with common sense is.

[wormraper]

[Midnight Rambler]

Originally Posted by Blu-Dog

A suspicion is not an assumption. I'm not looking for war, and no one with common sense is.

No, you only questioned my experience and said I was making assumption(s).

Curious, do you have ANY experience to base your assumptions, suspicions, or whatever, upon ?

[Blu-Dog]

Originally Posted by Midnight Rambler

No, you only questioned my experience and said I was making assumption(s).

Curious, do you have ANY experience to base your assumptions, suspicions, or whatever, upon ?

U.S. Army, Radar Tech, 3 years
Stereo Repair in this shop called Consumer Warranty, 3 years (Marantz, Dual, those were real names back then...Thorens...brings back memories)
Hughes Reseach Laboratory (Malibu), 10 years
Owner, Computer companies (2), 11 years. One was mostly product sales. Next came consulting, network design, that stuff.
Manager, Operations (international computer services company), 13 years. Deployment, design, project management, and now bean-counting, mostly (I know how bodies get buried, so they dragged me into it)

I don't need to show resumes, neither do you. But I can give examples of high tech industry manufacturers in cut-down mode, who pick the cheapest site to run to keep going for a while. Things get bad.

• I was around for Miniscribe's demise. Jeez, what a hose-up.
• I watched Seagate hit the floor, and take a long time to get up.
• I've watched all the white-box guys - Compaq, Leading Edge, Gateway, the list is too long to mention.
• Radio Shack CGA monitors that left people's faces red. Got DAM. I'm serious.

All from farming out items to cheaper subcontractors. They took down their own brand names, and sometimes the outfits that sold them. (I don't blame Miniscribe's demise on Crazy Eddie's Entertainment Marketing scheme, but that was only part of it.)


Then, in non-computer consumer items...jeez...

• BIC turntables. Started off terrible and got worse.
• Montgomery Ward refrigerators that knocked so hard people were trying to figure out how to release the prisoner.
• Kenmore was on the ropes with every washing machine leaking more water than it washed clothes with.
• Hoover vacuums. They never really recovered.
• Amana and Maytag equipment.

You're in autos, you should know. Cut the staff, cut the R&D, outsource the factory and the name, and you wind up with Opel and the Cadillac Cetera, and the Chrysler K series, and the Mustang II, and anything AMC that wound up with it getting killed. More recently, the Aztec, where they recycled all the interior parts into the Hummer, which died a nastier death than the Aztec. The Chinese own it now. Tell us how you feel about a Chinese Hummer.

So I'm not making an assumption that you know what you're talking about; I only have a suspicion that you actually know what you're talking about. Perhaps you do, or not, danged if I know. Holding up resumes is kind of a pee-pee stretching exercise - this is a discussion group, so folks like examples of what you're talking about.

I've watched numerous companies outsource to cheaper outfits - strictly on the basis of price - and while they continue to ship product, the first item cut to stay in business is quality control, while production is ramped up. Sell more, junk the returns, get the revenue. That's when the good people with brains leave, and start into new ventures where quality and pride run the show.

Tell me I'm wrong.

[Blu-Dog]

Originally Posted by wormraper

Some dude jumps out the bushes painted like an Apache warrior waving a stick, and I'm looking for some backup, and there you are. The only reason you stop rolling on the floor laughing is to go get some more popcorn.

Are you going to share, or is that too much to ask?

[wormraper]

Originally Posted by Blu-Dog

Some dude jumps out the bushes painted like an Apache warrior waving a stick, and I'm looking for some backup, and there you are. The only reason you stop rolling on the floor laughing is to go get some more popcorn.

Are you going to share, or is that too much to ask?

pfffft, nah if an apache warrior jumps out I'm pulling out my colt 45 ...........take a swig.... and then give him a quick bang bang........uhhhhhhhhh, I mean.... back to the fight

but in all honesty You're both right. the pulling of the plant IS ominous and definitely CAN lead to skimping, but at the same time, we don't know that just yet. All we can do is sit back and wait.