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Old 10-05-2009, 04:13 PM   #1
Chopper Greg Chopper Greg is offline
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Question Single center channel, or twin bookshelf speakers in the same position?

Which would be better, a single center channel, or twin bookshelf speakers in the same position.

In terms of drivers, they would have the same number of 5 1/4" woofers, but the number of 1" tweeters with the twin bookshelves, would increase by 1.

In terms of price, it's a $25 increase for the bookshelves.

In terms of Impedance, the center channel is a 6 ohms and the bookshelves are 8 ohms.

Am I wrong in thinking that the twin bookshelves would be better at spreading the sound across the center position?
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Old 10-05-2009, 04:27 PM   #2
aramis109 aramis109 is offline
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Better chance that they'll end up cancelling each other out unless you plan to have them fire out of phase. How are you planning on powering them? I hope you're not going to just wire them together and hook 'em up to a receiver. The impedence change'll probably fry something. Unless you're running a separate amp you're better off with just the single center.

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Old 10-05-2009, 04:32 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aramis109 View Post
Better chance that they'll end up cancelling each other out unless you plan to have them fire out of phase. How are you planning on powering them? I hope you're not going to just wire them together and hook 'em up to a receiver. The impedence change'll probably fry something. Unless you're running a separate amp you're better off with just the single center.
+1

Just do a single center.
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Old 10-05-2009, 04:40 PM   #4
Chopper Greg Chopper Greg is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aramis109 View Post
Better chance that they'll end up cancelling each other out unless you plan to have them fire out of phase.
It's possible - that's why I was looking for some feedback.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aramis109 View Post
How are you planning on powering them? I hope you're not going to just wire them together and hook 'em up to a receiver.
That is where I was eventually going to go with this question, as I didn't know if wiring in parallel or series would be of any use in this situation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aramis109 View Post
The impedence change'll probably fry something. Unless you're running a separate amp you're better off with just the single center.
I was a bit concerned about that, as I just found the thread about center speakers being better in the vertical position, and the center speaker that I was planning on, would have been absurdly high ( intruding into TV area ), if I stood on end. so I was looking at alternative ideas.
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Old 10-05-2009, 04:49 PM   #5
Steve Steve is offline
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Your best bet is 3 matching speakers placed in their proper orientation (vertical) across the front. If you can't accommodate this type of setup, then you should probably do like the rest of us and use a dedicated center channel and leave it in its proper orientation (horizontal).
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Old 10-05-2009, 07:41 PM   #6
SRTCraig SRTCraig is offline
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I have a pair of bookshelves as centers. I was hesitant at first aswell, but doubt i'll go back to a purpose built center.

I tried it for various reasons, no place to position a dedicated center, couldn't find a polk center at the time with enough presence, a fellow forum member was doing it and suggested it.

I do run them in parallel, so the amp sees half the original impedance. In doing this you also need to dial back the level of the center, (mines at -4db). You need to be sure your AVR can cope with a 4ohm load before doing it, our denons have no problems.

If you can try it without buying anything i suggest you try it and see if you like them as centers...
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Old 10-05-2009, 07:59 PM   #7
Chopper Greg Chopper Greg is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fireman325 View Post
Your best bet is 3 matching speakers placed in their proper orientation (vertical) across the front. If you can't accommodate this type of setup, then you should probably do like the rest of us and use a dedicated center channel and leave it in its proper orientation (horizontal).
The question to me then "What is proper orientation for the center channel?"

This thread says that while horizontal may be the so called "proper orientation", better performance is obtained when it is vertically oriented.
Horizontal Center Channel Speakers and Why They Should Be Avoided
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Old 10-05-2009, 08:40 PM   #8
Big Daddy Big Daddy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chopper Greg View Post
The question to me then "What is proper orientation for the center channel?"

This thread says that while horizontal may be the so called "proper orientation", better performance is obtained when it is vertically oriented.
Horizontal Center Channel Speakers and Why They Should Be Avoided
A vertical MTM center speaker will perform better than a horizontal MTM speaker in almost all cases. In tests done by Audioholics, when horizontally oriented dedicated center speakers were positioned vertically, they performed better. Surprisingly, a bookshelf speaker performed better than most horizontally oriented center speakers.

Your best bet is to use a single vertical bookshelf speaker that is timbre matched with your front speakers. If you want to use two center speakers, it will be better if you connect them to two power sources. Also, it is important to experiment with their position and perhaps wire them out of phase to lessen any chance of wave cancellations.
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Old 10-05-2009, 10:48 PM   #9
Chopper Greg Chopper Greg is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Daddy View Post
A vertical MTM center speaker will perform better than a horizontal MTM speaker in almost all cases. In tests done by Audioholics, when horizontally oriented dedicated center speakers were positioned vertically, they performed better. Surprisingly, a bookshelf speaker performed better than most horizontally oriented center speakers.

Your best bet is to use a single vertical bookshelf speaker that is timbre matched with your front speakers. If you want to use two center speakers, it will be better if you connect them to two power sources. Also, it is important to experiment with their position and perhaps wire them out of phase to lessen any chance of wave cancellations.
Thanks BD,

The center that I have been looking at, are out of the same series as the towers I picked up ( and the bookshelf speakers ) EMP Tek
Impression Series
, so I figure it's already timber matched and I'm already going to have a number of challenges as far a sound is concerned, I was trying to make the best of a difficult situation ( cathedral ceiling, wood paneling on 2 walls, brick fireplace on a third wall, all in an " L " shaped room ).
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Old 10-06-2009, 09:16 PM   #10
Chopper Greg Chopper Greg is offline
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Default A final question

It makes sense that if you place your center speaker on the A/V cabinet under the TV as so many do, you are going to affect the sound produced by it.

I seam to recall reading something about, how to deal with this issue, isolating the speaker from the cabinet, but I have not been able to match any of the key words I'm using in forum searching.

Does anyone have a link that can assist me in this?
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Old 10-07-2009, 07:45 PM   #11
Big Daddy Big Daddy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chopper Greg View Post
It makes sense that if you place your center speaker on the A/V cabinet under the TV as so many do, you are going to affect the sound produced by it.

I seam to recall reading something about, how to deal with this issue, isolating the speaker from the cabinet, but I have not been able to match any of the key words I'm using in forum searching.

Does anyone have a link that can assist me in this?
Generally speaking, when you put a speaker inside the wall or inside a cabinet, the low frequencies will be emphasized. If a speaker is on top of a cabinet or on a stand, away from the wall, the midrange and high frequencies become a little more detailed and well defined.
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Old 10-07-2009, 10:19 PM   #12
Chopper Greg Chopper Greg is offline
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Hmmmm..........


I think I understand what you mean, although I'm not totally sure that answers my question.

Let me see if I can explain the issue I'm looking at better.

Here is the cabinet that I'm looking to house my A/V system:


As you can see the area that the center channel would sit, is partially open / partially closed ( the top shelf in the center ).

My concern is that the center channel resting on the cabinet will cause the cabinet to act as a sound board, thus causing distortion in that it will no longer really match the matching towers that would set to either side of the cabinet.

Does this clarify the my question a little more?
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Old 10-08-2009, 02:01 AM   #13
Big Daddy Big Daddy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chopper Greg View Post
Hmmmm..........


I think I understand what you mean, although I'm not totally sure that answers my question.

Let me see if I can explain the issue I'm looking at better.

Here is the cabinet that I'm looking to house my A/V system:


As you can see the area that the center channel would sit, is partially open / partially closed ( the top shelf in the center ).

My concern is that the center channel resting on the cabinet will cause the cabinet to act as a sound board, thus causing distortion in that it will no longer really match the matching towers that would set to either side of the cabinet.

Does this clarify the my question a little more?
You can add rubber isolation pads to the bottom of the speaker to isolate it from the cabinet.

http://www.av-outlet.com/index.html?...tml&lang=en-us
http://www.soundproofcow.com/sound-i...n-control.html
http://www.drillspot.com/tag/vibration-isolator/
http://www.fullcompass.com/product/316672.html
http://www.fullcompass.com/product/239266.html
http://www.fullcompass.com/product/239265.html
http://www.fullcompass.com/product/239264.html
http://shop.ebay.com/items/?_nkw=spe...ikes&_osacat=0
http://www.parts-express.com/wizards...hFilter=spikes



Go to AV Outlet, on the left hand side, click on Seat Shaker & Amplifiers, and then click on Rubber Vibration Isolators for Chair and Platforms.

Also, check Ebay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/PKG16-SPEAKER-FL...item1c0cf7572f

Additionally, it may help if you fill all the empty shelves of the cabinet so that there are no big hollow openings.
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Last edited by Big Daddy; 10-08-2009 at 02:19 AM.
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Old 10-08-2009, 02:27 AM   #14
Chopper Greg Chopper Greg is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Daddy View Post
You can add rubber isolation pads to the bottom of the speaker to isolate it from the cabinet.


Additionally, it may help if you fill all the empty shelves of the cabinet so that there are no big hollow openings.
Oh, I'll fill them alright - starting with an Onkyo TX-SR806, PS3, and a couple of other items as I acquire them

I have even considered keeping the sub in the bottom of one side to move it out of the way.

Last edited by Chopper Greg; 10-08-2009 at 02:30 AM.
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Old 10-08-2009, 06:23 PM   #15
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do a quick search for mopads, and you can see why i highly recommend them.

second, i would also worry about having to run two speakers, id worry about the impendance variable in running them both off the AVR. remember, you might end up daisy chaining them unless you use a separate amplifier to 'properly' amplify the duo.
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Old 10-21-2009, 02:50 PM   #16
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I have B&W LCR60, normal center 2 drivers on the sides and tweeter in the middle.

Thinking of getting a new stand that will bring the tweeter up to ear level. Still horizontal.

Also thinking of turning it vertically. But there is no way the tweeter could be at ear level because the driver, then on top would be to high, in front of the screen.
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