Possible SteelBook™ Re-releases and Discussion

[tiger_qc]

Originally Posted by ElectroRob

A Re-Release of the amazon John Rambo Uncut would be fine
And of the Iron Man, I Am Legend, Indy Steelbook from Future Shop

If they re-release any of the long time OOP FS exclusive I'm totally out of the game. Germany was the main reason why I dropped the towel on worldwide completion and if FS do that I will jump off the ship and many collector's will too.

Re-relasing SBs is a crime and should be punishable of lifetime prison.

Cheers,
Gui.

[mikeyt912]

Originally Posted by tiger_qc

if they re-release any of the long time oop fs exclusive i'm totally out of the game. Germany was the main reason why i dropped the towel on worldwide completion and if fs do that i will jump off the ship and many collector's will too.

Re-relasing sbs is a crime and should be punishable of lifetime prison.

Cheers,
gui.

+900,000,000,000,000,000

[Blu350z]

Originally Posted by mikeyt912

Honestly i understand why alot of people would be happy about a Re-release of Rare Steelbooks but in my opinion i think its a bad idea. I have quite a few rare steelbooks and a re-release would crush their value. and not only that but there are quite a few rare ones i don't have and as much as i would like paying alot less for a re-release, it would also take the fun out of trying to find it and decide if its worth the money or not. just my opinion.

i was sad when Paramount decided to jump on board back to Blu. My Shooter and MI 3 went down in value.

[azereus]

Originally Posted by tiger_qc

If they re-release any of the long time OOP FS exclusive I'm totally out of the game. Germany was the main reason why I dropped the towel on worldwide completion and if FS do that I will jump off the ship and many collector's will too.

Re-relasing SBs is a crime and should be punishable of lifetime prison.

Cheers,
Gui.

A bit much don't you think?

[mr. b]

Originally Posted by HD 335

I know you mean well looking out for collectors but the reality is Scavano is in the business to make money. If their client requests a reprint, what position are they to dictate to the client that new artwork must be supplied? Designing new artwork is another cost a client will need factor in and time to produce a new proof will extend the production process and may even incur additonal costs over a reprint run. Differentiating artwork by color also presents a problem in that the client has approved the original artwork/color to certain specifications and not meeting those will require client approval or they may reject the reprint run.

Originally Posted by bandapart

Scanavo only fills their customer orders for the shell to hold the final product. The decisions for artwork and other detail is made by the customer, whether an original or a re-release.

Scanavo doesn't have a "collectible market", retailers, studios, owners of the intellectual property, consumers, et al, establish whether the final product is "collectible".

Scanavo can only provide a quality product, provide input to it's customers and make other decisions to insure their future growth, strength and profitability.

The market needs to consider designs like the FS Iron-Man Blu-Ray Steelbook release.

Eye candy sells.

Having a great film inside doesn't hurt either.

I understand that the artwork and/or color changes would have to come from the studios, but that takes what, about one day to design, implement, and approve? There is a ton of artwork already approved for a movie by the time a studio is looking at a re-print, and I don't see it taking hardly anytime to approve a different design. If their client were to request a reprint, I think Scanavo would be in a great position to suggest a different layout for the re-print. Scanavo would actually be able to pitch the possibility of stronger sales if the design was changed from the initial release because of the collectibility of them. Yes, Scanavo is in the business of making a profit, and I would think that informing the studios that a re-print of a previously released SteelBook would have some negative impact in the market, while a slightly different one would have a stronger chance of success. Scanavo obviously has to get the client's approval before they make them, and I'm sure there are lots of signatures involved for a re-print to be done. I think it would take probably all of one extra day, if that, to finalize a different version for approval with all the various artwork options already approved from various movie posters and other printed advertising such as magazines, webpages, etc. I am sure Scanavo would not be silly enough to change the background color or artwork of a re-print without the client's stamp of approval. I'm just saying that if Scanavo and the Studios were paying attention to what these SteelBooks are doing in the market besides selling, then their next logical step would actually be to NOT re-print an identical SteelBook, but actually to change it up either a little or alot. I don't know, it just makes good business sense to me, but then again, I don't make SteelBooks, I just buy them, so what do I know.

I don't see how Scanavo can't have a collectible market when that is the very thing they are pitching to the Studios with their product. Why else would they want their product to stand out amongst all the amaray's on the shelves?

[SheBluMyFrontEnd]

collecting steelbooks dont have to be for the value, it should be the fun of the game. Im sure most, if not all collectors who only buy amarays arent upset when the store gets a new shipment. Collect steelbooks for the nice packaging and because its nice having an alternate choice not cause they are gonna make you a millionaire one day. please don't flame

[tribalnoise]

Originally Posted by SheBluMyFrontEnd

collecting steelbooks dont have to be for the value, it should be the fun of the game. Im sure most, if not all collectors who only buy amarays arent upset when the store gets a new shipment. Collect steelbooks for the nice packaging not cause they are gonna make you a millionaire one day. please don't flame

i completely agree. folks need to stop obsessing about rarity and monetary value of steelbooks. i'm in this because they look cool!

[SheBluMyFrontEnd]

Originally Posted by tribalnoise

i completely agree. folks need to stop obsessing about rarity and monetary value of steelbooks. i'm in this because they look cool!

same here and its nice being able to choose an alternate cover for the movie when you dont really like the amarays

[tiger_qc]

Originally Posted by azereus

A bit much don't you think?

I'd say extreme but that's how I am.

[GreatGreg]

Originally Posted by tiger_qc

I'd say extreme but that's how I am.

This topic comes up again and again and I am going to be very anti-Tiger and maybe shoot myself in the foot, but I would say RE-RELEASE AWAY!

Bottom line is that Scanavo/Future Shop/MM/Best Buy are in this business to make money, as some have already pointed out. The whole reason they issued SteelBooks in the first place was to entice additional sales of new product.

The collectible aftermarket for them is useless as they make 0-profit on that. They would release 10 000 000 SteelBooks of IAL or IM if they knew they would all sell and could care less about the collectible market.

Bringing up baseball cards and CD-cases are a good examples. Look at cards. in the 1990s cards became hugely popular and the manfuacturers glutted the market. There was huge crash in the collectible market whereby you can buy many of those cards now for cheaper than they were then.

For CD-cases, no one has really cared too much about what case your CD comes in except for a select few fans.

I would understand that we, are those same fans for SteelBooks. Our community is small, even though we would like to think we are bigger.

Don't get me wrong. I love SteelBooks as much as the next guy (okay maybe not as much as Tiger and Crash) but I think this is the reality we have to deal with. I would prefer to go with the flow than try to swim upstream. I'd love to have all my movies in SteelBooks, but I'm not going to pay an (outrageous) premium for them. I also won't buy SteelBooks for movies I don't like. I already have boxes of DVDs which I will likely never watch again (SUPER EX-GIRLFRIEND, anyone?).

I'm just trying to enjoy this for the moment and I would recommend the same to anyone coming into the hobby as well.

By the way, maybe it is sacrilegious to say so, but in 5-10 yrs time when all these BD SteelBooks go the way of the do-do and the DVD SteelBooks, will you all be re-buying IAL, IM and JOHN RAMBO again on *Green-Ray*?

RE-RELEASE ALL OF THEM and book me, Danno.

"What took you so long?"

Anti-Tiger

[D-Blitz]

Originally Posted by GreatGreg

This topic comes up again and again and I am going to be very anti-Tiger and maybe shoot myself in the foot, but I would say RE-RELEASE AWAY!

Bottom line is that Scanavo/Future Shop/MM/Best Buy are in this business to make money, as some have already pointed out. The whole reason they issued SteelBooks in the first place was to entice additional sales of new product.

The collectible aftermarket for them is useless as they make 0-profit on that. They would release 10 000 000 SteelBooks of IAL or IM if they knew they would all sell and could care less about the collectible market.

Bringing up baseball cards and CD-cases are a good examples. Look at cards. in the 1990s cards became hugely popular and the manfuacturers glutted the market. There was huge crash in the collectible market whereby you can buy many of those cards now for cheaper than they were then.

For CD-cases, no one has really cared too much about what case your CD comes in except for a select few fans.

I would understand that we, are those same fans for SteelBooks. Our community is small, even though we would like to think we are bigger.

Don't get me wrong. I love SteelBooks as much as the next guy (okay maybe not as much as Tiger and Crash) but I think this is the reality we have to deal with. I would prefer to go with the flow than try to swim upstream. I'd love to have all my movies in SteelBooks, but I'm not going to pay an (outrageous) premium for them. I also won't buy SteelBooks for movies I don't like. I already have boxes of DVDs which I will likely never watch again (SUPER EX-GIRLFRIEND, anyone?).

I'm just trying to enjoy this for the moment and I would recommend the same to anyone coming into the hobby as well.

By the way, maybe it is sacrilegious to say so, but in 5-10 yrs time when all these BD SteelBooks go the way of the do-do and the DVD SteelBooks, will you all be re-buying IAL, IM and JOHN RAMBO again on *Green-Ray*?

RE-RELEASE ALL OF THEM and book me, Danno.

"What took you so long?"

Anti-Tiger

They are indeed in the business of making money, but it is very wrong to assume that the more they make the better their profits. By establishing a limited factor and collectiblity to their products, they will sell out their product and make more profits, than as you said, if they glut the market with releases. Eventually, the market will lose interest in the product and the companies would have hurt themselves by overzealously releasing and re-releasing titles in the Steelbook format.

Conclusion: re-releasing a collectible is wrong. Again, it's a collector vs. average Joe debate. Steelbooks are undoubtedly a collector's item so I'd say it's only fair that their target market be the judge. Were it not for collectors, Steelbooks would be as worthless as any other special packaging.

[GreatGreg]

Originally Posted by D-Blitz

They are indeed in the business of making money, but it is very wrong to assume that the more they make the better their profits. By establishing a limited factor and collectiblity to their products, they will sell out their product and make more profits, than as you said, if they glut the market with releases. Eventually, the market will lose interest in the product and the companies would have hurt themselves by overzealously releasing and re-releasing titles in the Steelbook format.

D, I understand your wanting this to be the case, but I don't think it is.

If that were true, then Scanavo should be releasing 10 of every SteelBook to have ultimate collectibility. Or better yet, ship one each to Blu-Boy of every SteelBook made. But where are their profits in that?

Better yet, how about this scenario: release 4000 SteelBooks, and get 1000 new SteelBook collectors. Then release 5000 SteelBooks for the next movie, and get 2000 new collectors.

What Best Buy is doing (glutting the market, so to speak) is actually also helping to grow the collector market.

And hey, how about all those people complaining about not being able to get a copy? They should talk to those who want to keep the SteelBook numbers down.

It is essentially an abundance/scarcity model and what it means to you. If you leave that extra SteelBook on the shelf, do you feel that you are giving someone else a chance to get into the hobby, or do you feel that that is one less SteelBook for yourself?

[D-Blitz]

Originally Posted by GreatGreg

D, I understand your wanting this to be the case, but I don't think it is.

If that were true, then Scanavo should be releasing 10 of every SteelBook to have ultimate collectibility. Or better yet, ship one each to Blu-Boy of every SteelBook made. But where are their profits in that?

Better yet, how about this scenario: release 4000 SteelBooks, and get 1000 new SteelBook collectors. Then release 5000 SteelBooks for the next movie, and get 2000 new collectors.

What Best Buy is doing (glutting the market, so to speak) is actually also helping to grow the collector market.

And hey, how about all those people complaining about not being able to get a copy? They should talk to those who want to keep the SteelBook numbers down.

It is essentially an abundance/scarcity model and what it means to you. If you leave that extra SteelBook on the shelf, do you feel that you are giving someone else a chance to get into the hobby, or do you feel that that is one less SteelBook for yourself?

You can't assess a situation by examining its extreme scenarios; in fact, that is a bit of a straw man argument. What Best Buy is doing gets new Steelbook buyers (not quite collectors) but also sacrifices the loyalty of many actual collectors. Such is the case with re-releases as well.

[TM2-Megatron]

Originally Posted by tribalnoise

i completely agree. folks need to stop obsessing about rarity and monetary value of steelbooks. i'm in this because they look cool!

Ditto. I'd welcome a re-release of a few FS titles, but if it never happens I can also live without them. Steelbooks simply aren't a wise investment, and I'd hope that nobody's seriously using them as such. We're not talking about original print posters of Metropolis or Creature from the Black Lagoon, here. None of them are ever going to be worth a fortune, and the odds are in the long run all of them will simply decrease in value as Blu-Ray becomes more widely adopted, or eventually falls by the wayside in favour of yet another new format for which there'll be new Steelbooks (or similar).

[mr. b]

Originally Posted by GreatGreg

D, I understand your wanting this to be the case, but I don't think it is.

If that were true, then Scanavo should be releasing 10 of every SteelBook to have ultimate collectibility. Or better yet, ship one each to Blu-Boy of every SteelBook made. But where are their profits in that?

Better yet, how about this scenario: release 4000 SteelBooks, and get 1000 new SteelBook collectors. Then release 5000 SteelBooks for the next movie, and get 2000 new collectors.

What Best Buy is doing (glutting the market, so to speak) is actually also helping to grow the collector market.

And hey, how about all those people complaining about not being able to get a copy? They should talk to those who want to keep the SteelBook numbers down.

It is essentially an abundance/scarcity model and what it means to you. If you leave that extra SteelBook on the shelf, do you feel that you are giving someone else a chance to get into the hobby, or do you feel that that is one less SteelBook for yourself?

I think 4000-5000 of a movie release is pretty limited. Hell, even 10,000 is low when it is compared to a standard amaray release of a film. Printing just 10 would be pointless and not cost effective at all.

[bandapart]

Originally Posted by mr. b

I understand that the artwork and/or color changes would have to come from the studios, but that takes what, about one day to design, implement, and approve? There is a ton of artwork already approved for a movie by the time a studio is looking at a re-print, and I don't see it taking hardly anytime to approve a different design. If their client were to request a reprint, I think Scanavo would be in a great position to suggest a different layout for the re-print. Scanavo would actually be able to pitch the possibility of stronger sales if the design was changed from the initial release because of the collectibility of them. Yes, Scanavo is in the business of making a profit, and I would think that informing the studios that a re-print of a previously released SteelBook would have some negative impact in the market, while a slightly different one would have a stronger chance of success. Scanavo obviously has to get the client's approval before they make them, and I'm sure there are lots of signatures involved for a re-print to be done. I think it would take probably all of one extra day, if that, to finalize a different version for approval with all the various artwork options already approved from various movie posters and other printed advertising such as magazines, webpages, etc. I am sure Scanavo would not be silly enough to change the background color or artwork of a re-print without the client's stamp of approval. I'm just saying that if Scanavo and the Studios were paying attention to what these SteelBooks are doing in the market besides selling, then their next logical step would actually be to NOT re-print an identical SteelBook, but actually to change it up either a little or alot. I don't know, it just makes good business sense to me, but then again, I don't make SteelBooks, I just buy them, so what do I know.

I don't see how Scanavo can't have a collectible market when that is the very thing they are pitching to the Studios with their product. Why else would they want their product to stand out amongst all the amaray's on the shelves?

It would be in Scanavo's best interests to express their expertise and market knowledge by providing positive suggestions and input to their customers (who decide what they want). I'm sure they do that when working with their clients.

With only what I'm briefly aware of, re-releases do contain different artwork and may have other differences, to present to the market a "different" product, and not step on the earlier release.

Scanavo makes the same profit from the shells it provides, whether the finished product is sold for $24.99 on the retail market or $349.00 on the secondary re-seller market.

Scanavo and it's clients enjoy the prestige, collectibility status, and sometimes astronomical prices their products bring in the secondary market. I believe considerations are made so as not to completely upset this market.

They are all in business to create positive earnings, profitability, and growth.

[crashkelly]

Originally Posted by tiger_qc

I'd say extreme but that's how I am.

+1,000,000 to that

Cheers
CrashKelly

[crashkelly]

Originally Posted by bandapart

It would be in Scanavo's best interests to express their expertise and market knowledge by providing positive suggestions and input to their customers (who decide what they want). I'm sure they do that when working with their clients.

With only what I'm briefly aware of, re-releases do contain different artwork and may have other differences, to present to the market a "different" product, and not step on the earlier release.

Scanavo makes the same profit from the shells it provides, whether the finished product is sold for $24.99 on the retail market or $349.00 on the secondary re-seller market.

Scanavo and it's clients enjoy the prestige, collectibility status, and sometimes astronomical prices their products bring in the secondary market. I believe considerations are made so as not to completely upset this market.

They are all in business to create positive earnings, profitability, and growth.

Very well said

The higher the collectibility of a steelbook, the better Scanavo looks and the more highly sought after their product is by consumers, even though it must go through the retail stream first.

Yes, on their own they are very nice cases, regardless of the "collectible" value, but when their product reaches the levels of FS IAL, FS Iron Man, and AMZ JR, that definately boosts their appearance and a consumers desire to buy the product.

Cheers
CrashKelly

[HD 335]

Originally Posted by mr. b

I understand that the artwork and/or color changes would have to come from the studios, but that takes what, about one day to design, implement, and approve? There is a ton of artwork already approved for a movie by the time a studio is looking at a re-print, and I don't see it taking hardly anytime to approve a different design. If their client were to request a reprint, I think Scanavo would be in a great position to suggest a different layout for the re-print. Scanavo would actually be able to pitch the possibility of stronger sales if the design was changed from the initial release because of the collectibility of them. Yes, Scanavo is in the business of making a profit, and I would think that informing the studios that a re-print of a previously released SteelBook would have some negative impact in the market, while a slightly different one would have a stronger chance of success. Scanavo obviously has to get the client's approval before they make them, and I'm sure there are lots of signatures involved for a re-print to be done. I think it would take probably all of one extra day, if that, to finalize a different version for approval with all the various artwork options already approved from various movie posters and other printed advertising such as magazines, webpages, etc. I am sure Scanavo would not be silly enough to change the background color or artwork of a re-print without the client's stamp of approval.

If you're drawing from experience, I'd love to find out what field you work in where a creative services team works that quickly. I regularly interact with 3 major retail brands and typically nothing happens in one day much less a complete design and approval from a director. Rarely is it just one person or even one department who handles the process. Decisions are made by various departments, which I would imagine include strategic sourcing, marketing and creative services. Suppose the workflow is that efficient and this is all approved, realize that a project like is not a high priority and getting those signatures along the food chain will take time. Having the artwork created in one day can also be a challenge. Yes, they will obviously be taking artwork from existing sources, but ask any of the custom covers artists here, how long does it take for them to whip up a cover they are truly happy with? Graphic designers are a very discerning group of individuals and they rarely like to just slap something together. Even the most minute character spacing catches their eye and they will stare and fiddle with it until it's perfect. I see it all the time, professionally and personally.

I agree that Scanavo could be a good position to give advice, that's what I do all the time with my clients. However, it doesn't mean the buyer always listen. Think about it, if you're a giant studio/company, do you work off the advice from your own team or from a vendor? Studios pay hundreds if not millions of dollars to their marketing team for data. If that team doesn't believe they will be able to justify an internal investment in recreating artwork for a reprint for an old title of the same product that will result in higher profit, they generally won't do it. Another potential internal red tape that I've come across is that exact reprints are just easier to handle and process. In my field, when an exact reprint order is given to me, typically there are very few handlers, usually a department director and one manager. But whenever a change in the job is introduced, that group can easily double in order to finalize a decision. Bottom line is, no one wants to do more work than they have to unless there is a lot of money to be made.

Originally Posted by mr. b

I don't see how Scanavo can't have a collectible market when that is the very thing they are pitching to the Studios with their product. Why else would they want their product to stand out amongst all the amaray's on the shelves?

GreatGreg hit the point with his post. By saturating the market with more steelbooks, through numbers Scavano can show its investors (or owner, did not check to see if they are a public company) that profitability is up. What company wouldn't want to generated more sales? Will it be as collectible, probably not but there is no denying it is still a collectible. Obviously there is an inflection point where over saturation of their product will reduce interest in the product which I think we're gradually approaching. I'm sure Scavano knows they run the risk in losing a particular niche consumer, but if they gain a larger base, it's a easy decision to justify for their growth.

Originally Posted by mr. b

I'm just saying that if Scanavo and the Studios were paying attention to what these SteelBooks are doing in the market besides selling, then their next logical step would actually be to NOT re-print an identical SteelBook, but actually to change it up either a little or alot. I don't know, it just makes good business sense to me, but then again, I don't make SteelBooks, I just buy them, so what do I know.

Going to back to my main point, if any more time or money has to be invested into releasing an old product, it better generate substantially more revenue. I don't have numbers sold for re-releases of IAL or TDK German, but if the studio sees that a fair amount gets sold and there is profit, they feel like winners and won't even bother to see if there is potential or grab a few more sales. Honestly, how many normal people will really buy multiple copies of the same movie just because the case is different? I don't make Steelbooks either, but I do understand production runs in offset lithography. Although different from one another, the production concept should be the same and I would guess the approval workflow process would not be all too dis-similar from each other as well.

[mr. b]

Okay, I'm just going to shut up now. I was simply making a guess that it would take one additonal day at most to approve some new artwork. Like I said, I don't know crap about making them, I just buy them. I am sure the timeline to get a re-print approved is shorter than the intial run, and I am sure that there are many people that are still involved in making sure the re-print runs smoothly. All I was suggesting was that it would probably take an additional day ON TOP of what is already needed to get the approval done for something slightly different than the initial release. I am well aware of how Graphic Designers can be, and there are probably a handful of ideas from the initial release that came close to becoming the final product that they could revisit, touch up, and submit for approval. Hell, simply changing the background color of the original artwork would simply mean making ONE change. Maybe it'll take 2 days, maybe a whole additional week. I just don't see how it should not be at leasted looked at by the Studios, and/or recommended by Scanavo so that the re-print stands out more on it's own rather than simply re-releasing it. Movies get repackaged and re-released like crazy to generate more sales, so it is not that much of a stretch for them.

Sure the studios don't have to listen to Scanavo, and Scanavo should do EXACTLY what the customer requests. I just think that if we start seeing more and more re-prints, the current interests levels for SteelBooks will most likely decrease, and this in turn will drive sales down and not up. Personally, I don't care if they re-print them. I might get some I missed, I might not. I just think that for Scanavo and the SteelBook brand of cases, this is a move that they need to seriously consider. It is obvious that right now, there are more and more people collecting SteelBooks, and to me, that is a great thing. With more newbies coming on board, it would be great for them to simply pick up a re-print of one that used to be hard to find. I also think it would be just as great, however, if the re-print was different enough that they could choose which one to get, the first one or the re-print. Obviously, I have absolutely no control over this. I'm just stating my lame ass opinion on the whole subject. Okay, now I'll shut up.

Originally Posted by bandapart

With only what I'm briefly aware of, re-releases do contain different artwork and may have other differences, to present to the market a "different" product, and not step on the earlier release.

Scanavo makes the same profit from the shells it provides, whether the finished product is sold for $24.99 on the retail market or $349.00 on the secondary re-seller market.

Check all the re-releases of the previous Media Markt Exclusives that recently hit amazon.de. Most, if not all of them, are nearly identical to the initial ones. There are some very minor changes on some of them, like 10,000 BC having a different finish on it with the same artwork, but to the naked eye or to a casual observer, they are the same. John Rambo was the only one that I am aware of that was re-released with different artwork, but the discs in them were identical initially.

Scanavo does make the same profit, and I am not suggesting they try to tap into the secondary re-seller's market. That would be an idiotic move at best. If they were able to do some research, they would probably find that the potential to sell MORE SteelBooks for the same amount of profit they always make would be present on a re-print if they could differentiate the re-print from the original. Then again, they might not. Hell, I just need to shut up, huh? (LOL!)