The Silent Film Thread

[kndy]

For those who are passionate about silent films, please discuss films that you have watched recently and give your thoughts, recommendations, or any discussion related to silent films, etc.

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Silent films available on Blu-ray:

- Battleship Potemikin [KINO]
- City Girl [Masters of Cinema]
- The General [KINO]
- Metropolis [KINO & Masters of Cinema]
- Modern times [The Criterion Collection]
- Steamboat Bill, Jr. [KINO]
- Sunrise: A Song of Two Humans [Masters of Cinema]

Coming soon:

- Black Pirate [KINO]
- Our Hospitality [KINO]
- Sherlock Jr. [KINO]
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F.A.Q.

Are all silents now going the DVR-R route for releases?

You can expect major titles to be released on Blu-ray if there is considerable funding for major restoration (ie. "Metropolis"). But for silents and also classic films, we are now in the age where people are going towards digital streaming and Blu-ray, and unfortunately silent and classic films attract a niche and unfortunately, not a large enough niche that are willing to spend the cost that it takes to properly restore a lot of these films.

So, you can expect to see silent films being released on demand via pay for a DVD-R with no special features. Unfortunately, for many people, the thought of buying a DVD-R for $19.99 is absurd, while for the enthusiasts, they would rather have this than nothing.

In terms of silents, expect to see Warner release them via DVD-R through their Warner Archives and even Grapevine has begun releasing them on DVD-R as well. And keep your eyes on sales.

But for those who are patient, keep your eyes on releases from KINO Video, Flicker Alley, Criterion and others for silent films on DVD.

Where can I purchase silent films?

- The Criterion Collection
- Eureka!/Masters of Cinema
- Flicker Alley
- Grapevine Video
- Image
- KINO International
- Milestone Films
- Slap Happy Collection
- Sunrise Silents
- Unknown Video
- WarnerShop/Warner Archive

What are the best silent film books to purchase?

Everyone is in agreement that Kevin Brownlow's "The Parade's Gone By" is an essential book. But there are others and you may want to read here to get a better grasp on books on silent films.

What is all this discussion about film speed of silent films?

This is one that is hard to explain but it's best to read this article from Kevin Brownlow.


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For fans of silent films, here are a few websites I recommend:

- NitrateVille.com (Forum)
- SilentEra.com
- Silentsaregolden.com
- The Silent Treatment

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For cinema fans who want to explore great films from other countries on Blu-ray.com, please visit:

- BFI Thread
- Criterion Collection Discussion Thread
- Official Golden Age of Hollywood Thread
- Masters of Cinema (MoC) Thread
- Official Anime on Blu-ray Thread
- The Official KINO International/KINO Video Thread
- The Official Oscilloscope Laboratories Thread
- Official Palisades Tartan Thread
- The Official Sony Pictures Classics Thread
- StudioCanal Collection Thread

[kndy]

I just watched "Ménilmontant" by Dimitri Kirsanoff (as part of KINO Video's Avant-Garde: Experimental Cinema of the 1920s and ’30s DVD). I absolutely loved it!

You can watch it here: YouTube - Dimitri Kirsanoff - "Ménilmontant" (part 1/5)



This is a true masterpiece by Dimitri Kirsanoff.

This is the first silent film I watched with no intertitles and the first to see disturbing scenes. Although not very disturbing for viewers these days, I can imagine that this film may have touched a nerve back in 1926, especially as the film begins immediately with two people being murdered.

But what I was amazed that during the film, Kirsanoff manages to capture the younger sister’s emotions and habits. The younger sister has a habit of biting on her fingernail and playing with her nose. These natural emotions that most filmmakers typically don’t usually capture on film, especially for its female lead. Nadia Sirbirskaia’s facial emotions are shown with such clarity, Kirsanoff’s close-ups of her are truly ravishing and yet heartbreaking at times. We literally see her character from her most happiest moment to her worst.

Kirsanoff also manages to showcase flashbacks, scenic shots and camera angles but these montage of Paris in the 1920’s with the cars, the crowded people, the nice areas and not so nice areas with trash all over the ground and during the most sexual parts of the silent film, these montages are then mixed with a woman’s body indicating that the younger sister and the young man have had sex.

“Ménilmontant” is such a wonderful silent film that manages to feature everything from disturbing to romantic scenes but also showcasing Kirsanoff’s part in French Impressionist Cinema. Kirsanoff may not have done well when sound was introduced in films but he was able to create many films with “Ménilmontant” being his true work of art and his ultimate masterpiece.

[kndy]

Watched “Sur un air de Charleston” (Charleston Parade) which is included in the Jean Renoir 3-DVD set from Studio Canal/Lionsgate recently.

You can watch it here: YouTube - Charleston Parade (1927) Part 1



“Sur un air de Charleston” (Charleston Parade) is an odd silent film from Jean Renoir. I’ve read and heard many times about his passion for American cinema and jazz music and this film is his ode to incorporating that passion in 1927. I have to say that I was a bit amazed by Catherine Hessling’s appearance in the film as she is semi-nude, opens her legs directly to the camera and knowing that Hessling used to mime a lot of what she saw from American cinema, for a silent film, I don’t think I have yet seen anything like her performance such as what is shown in this short film. But I don’t think Hessling would be bothered by such a role as she was a nude model for Renoir’s father, the popular painter Pierre-Auguste Renoir.

Some may wonder if Jean Renoir was either on drugs or he just had one hell of an imaginative mind. You have a savage with her ape, an explorer from Africa and angels with big human heads. Needless to say, Renoir has created an unusual but erotic fantasy that takes place in a futuristic world that has been destroyed due to war. And to think this is Renoir’s vision for the film that takes 100-years after the film was created. I thought it was very cool to see the production design of this destruction of scenery in post-war Paris incorporated in this silent film but also the dance choreography and seeing Renoir using speed for certain shots.

But for many people, silent films especially vaudeville films with people in black face are regarded as racist. Johnny Hudgins was among the few Black men who performed for a white audience in black face (making him much darker) and white lips. In fact, some scenes and even dialogue have racial overtones in which the tied up explorer asks the savage that she can eat him after she shows him the Charleston dance. The savage woman shows a face that she is about to gag and tells him that she will not eat him because she doesn’t like black meat.

But the heart of the film is the dancing by both Hessling and Hudgins. Modern viewers can see how certain dances that we see in the film have been interpreted into modern dance routines.

Overall, “Sur un air de Charleston” (Charleston Parade) is such an odd film that sticks out compared to all the films Jean Renoir has directed. It is a film that people will see as racist as Hudgin’s character as the explorer is shown as a buffoon, considering that here is a man that is an explorer and operating a flying aircraft as opposed to a savage girl wearing next to nothing who hangs out with an ape. But I understand that it’s a film which was a sign of the times, it is a French film and knowing that most countries considering “Black face”as part of their entertainment and many consider Americans being more sensitive to the issue than they are.

But however you may feel about “Black face”, “Sur un air de Charleston” (Charleston Parade) is part of the earlier works of Jean Renoir and it is included in the box set. As a person who have watched a good number of his films, many of his earlier films especially with his first wife Catherine Hessling, seems to be films that were created for her benefit or their benefit as a couple. His work definitely changed in the next decade and even moreso, a few decades after his two masterpiece “La Grand Illusion” and “La Regle du jeu” (The Rules of the Game) were created.

[pickfair]

was Menilmontant a feature? I thought that Avant Garde set was a compilation of shorts?

If you want to see a silent film without intertitles, check out "The Last Laugh" a 1924 Emil Jannings film. Brilliant!

I have over 600 silent films at home

[SquidPuppet]

Originally Posted by kndy

I just watched "Ménilmontant" by Dimitri Kirsanoff (as part of KINO Video's Avant-Garde: Experimental Cinema of the 1920s and ’30s DVD). I absolutely loved it!

You can watch it here: YouTube - Dimitri Kirsanoff - "Ménilmontant" (part 1/5)



This is a true masterpiece by Dimitri Kirsanoff.

This is the first silent film I watched with no intertitles and the first to see disturbing scenes. Although not very disturbing for viewers these days, I can imagine that this film may have touched a nerve back in 1926, especially as the film begins immediately with two people being murdered.

But what I was amazed that during the film, Kirsanoff manages to capture the younger sister’s emotions and habits. The younger sister has a habit of biting on her fingernail and playing with her nose. These natural emotions that most filmmakers typically don’t usually capture on film, especially for its female lead. Nadia Sirbirskaia’s facial emotions are shown with such clarity, Kirsanoff’s close-ups of her are truly ravishing and yet heartbreaking at times. We literally see her character from her most happiest moment to her worst.

Kirsanoff also manages to showcase flashbacks, scenic shots and camera angles but these montage of Paris in the 1920’s with the cars, the crowded people, the nice areas and not so nice areas with trash all over the ground and during the most sexual parts of the silent film, these montages are then mixed with a woman’s body indicating that the younger sister and the young man have had sex.

“Ménilmontant” is such a wonderful silent film that manages to feature everything from disturbing to romantic scenes but also showcasing Kirsanoff’s part in French Impressionist Cinema. Kirsanoff may not have done well when sound was introduced in films but he was able to create many films with “Ménilmontant” being his true work of art and his ultimate masterpiece.

Your description has me interested.

Netflix does not have this. Darn. Looks like I can get the collection at Amazon for $25 ish. What is the DVD quality like?

[kndy]

Hi Pickfair,

It was pretty long at I think 37 minutes. Wow!! 600 films...that's cool! Is the "Last Laugh" on DVD or is it available via public domain?

[kndy]

Originally Posted by SquidPuppet

Your description has me interested.

Netflix does not have this. Darn. Looks like I can get the collection at Amazon for $25 ish. What is the DVD quality like?

You can actually buy it from ebay for like $11-$16 for the Avante-Garde releases.

“Ménilmontant” is featured in 1:33:1, black and white. The film looks very good but is not pristine as scratches, dust and film degradation can be seen at times. But for the most part, this 85-year-old film still looks very good. The silent film is accompanied by a score by Paul Mercer.

The musical score is not optional but fortunately, the music matches the film perfectly. It’s a well done musical score incorporating strings that shows the subtlety and gentleness of certain scenes but then starts to go awry as the younger sister is at her lowest point in her life.

[pickfair]

Originally Posted by kndy

Hi Pickfair,

It was pretty long at I think 37 minutes. Wow!! 600 films...that's cool! Is the "Last Laugh" on DVD or is it available via public domain?

I consider that a short, anything under 45-50 minutes is short to me. The early features, 1912-1914 were about 45-50 minutes, expanding to 60-80 minutes by the mid-teens.

The Last Laugh is available in a great print from Kino. Not sure if it's on their upcoming Blu-ray list. So far they have only released The General in blu

[kndy]

"Tokyo Chorus" is available on The Criterion Collection's "Silent Ozu: Three Family Comedies – Eclipse Series #10":

Here is a a video (the version on the DVD is way better looking than this): YouTube - TOKYO CHORUS (Tokyo no korasu, 1931)



“Tokyo Chorus” is my first classic Japanese silent film and the fact that it was directed by Yasujiro Ozu made me want to purchase the “Silent Ozu – Three Family Comedies” box set. And as expected, even for a silent film, Ozu is able to capture the Japanese family life including the quirks. For example, in one scene, his son who tends to fight with his sister is seen hitting her in the head and she starts crying. Or another scene in which the son tries to climb a clothes shelf and when Shinji comes to pull him off, his records fall down and break.

Because these films were silent, it was so important to communicate visually with the audience and with the son’s antics and his wife’s facial expressions, you don’t need any dialogue to understand what is going on in the film. The way the characters are shot, the emotions they bring to the camera and just the overall pacing of the film is done wonderfully.

Kids are behaving like kids and the parents, played by Tokihiko Okada and Emiko Yaguma do a great job communicating their happiness, sadness and frustrations.

“Tokyo Chorus” is featured in 1:33:1 aspect ratio. The film is black and white and as mentioned earlier, Eclipse series are films that do not receive the CRITERION COLLECTION restoration and remastering. Thus, the scratches and slight warping of the original film are very visible. The good news is that the film, despite being nearly 80 years old is still watchable and very enjoyable.

As for audio, this is a silent film but there is an option to have a piano score played by Donald Sosin play throughout the film. And the piano score actually does work and fits the mood of the entire film.

Subtitles are in English and are shown during scenes after a dialogue and shows the Japanese intertitles.

[kndy]

If there was one silent film that I just love to death..."The Passion of Joan of Arc"

You can watch it here: YouTube - The Passion of Joan of Arc (1928) 1/8

It's available from the Criterion Collection with a wonderful musical score by Voices of Light.



Powerful, emotional and simply...brilliant.

Carl Th. Dreyer’s “The Passion of Joan of Arc” was a film that had to go through so many challenges. If it’s one thing to have so many versions, so many cuts and so much controversy, the film also had to contend with the move away from silent films to film with sound.

Regardless of the controversy, the fact is that Dreyer’s original print after 60 years has been found, restored and we are being given the opportunity to see this film the way it was mean to be seen.

I feel that in this day and age, many viewers are familiar with Joan of Arc through films such as Luc Besson’s “The Messenger: The Story of Joan of Arc” or Christian Duguay’s mini-series “Joan of Arc” or even whatever they learned through the PSP video game “Jeanne d’Arc”. But the story of Jeanne d’Arc is not as easy one to tell in 90-120 minutes. Also, instead of focusing on the protagonist fighting in various wars or in battle, “The Passion of Joan of Arc” is nothing like any of these newer incarnations of the story of Joan of Arc.

What we have with “The Passion of Joan of Arc” is a true Dreyer masterpiece not realized until after 1981. A powerful performance over 80-years ago by an actress captured on film. The visual composition is amazing, the set design (which was very expensive despite not being utilized in the film all that much) and that final moments are just incredible to see. This was made in 1928 and here we are 81-years later and this film just holds up remarkably well.

As for the Criterion Collection DVD of this amazing film, I know that it’s an older release but even though it doesn’t have a similar style of bonus features that we are used to with recent Criterion releases, there is still a good number of content included. The fact that in 2007, the Danish Film Institute commissioned a new soundtrack and that other composers have made soundtracks for the film afterward, I don’t know if its possible but if The Criterion Collection does choose to release this film on Blu-ray, I hope we can get various soundtracks to accompany the film. That would be magnificent.

But still, Richard Einhorn’s 1994 oratorio titled “Voices of Light” is still a remarkable (and optional) soundtrack for the film. Just to hear the music all around me was such a great experience. The commentary is quite in-depth with information but also the video comparisons and other artwork included on the special features.

If you have been interested in watching “The Passion of Joan of Arc” for the first time, it’s definitely an experience.

[pickfair]

I agree - Passion.... is one of my favourite silent films

[kndy]

Originally Posted by pickfair

I agree - Passion.... is one of my favourite silent films

I hope Criterion or someone releases it on Blu-ray and give us several choices of musical scores. I hear in Europe, they have shown this with several musical scores and although the "Voices of Light" was awesome on the Criterion DVD, would love to hear the other scores.

I still need to purchase the MoC Blu-ray for "Sunrise". I want to see it badly but I think there is a sale coming soon (as seen on the MoC thread). Also, still need to get the Blu-ray for Kino's "The General". Too many public domain copies out there online bu they are bad quality, cut off...

[kndy]

Here is another one that I've watched a few weeks ago. A wonderful set from the Criterion Collection filled with special features and comes with multiple film scores.

You can watch it on YouTube: YouTube - Pandora's Box (1929) - 1/13



I absolutely enjoyed Pandora’s Box and I also enjoyed the overall presentation and content from what was provided by The Criterion Collection.

“Pandora’s Box”, adored by many as a silent film to be so involving and deep but a film ahead of its time. Also, for the film’s portrayals of its characters, its editing and overall storyline. From Lulu’s power over those who love her and seeing these individuals succumbing in one way or another but to find her match with Jack the Ripper. A film in 1929 that would feature a woman showing her passionate eyes towards Lulu and an early film showcasing lesbian tendencies.

Of course, not all countries wanted to feature these story elements that can easily be misconstrued as too controversial. In the US version, the Countess (the lesbian who is in love with Lulu) became a childhood friend and the tragic story would be no more as there would be no Jack the Ripper and somehow the story would feature Lulu joining the Salvation Army. Personally, I can’t imagine such a thing but then again, I did not grow up in 1929 and it was a different era.

In Germany, “Pandora’s Box” was not too popular in Germany. In fact, Pabst’s decision to go with an American actress instead of a German actress was seen to be too bold and I’m sure many looked as the bypassing of Marlene Dietrich for the main role to be quite blasphemous.

But for those who discovered the film many decades after its release were amazed by the complexity of the story for a silent film and what was featured on camera. The film would be regarded by many film historians and cinema fans as a true classic and would be looked as G.W. Pabst’s masterpiece.

Seeing how Pabst was so well in-tuned in what he wanted from his talent, treating them differently, having them do things that may have made them feel uncomfortable but was needed to obtain the performance he imagined (note: A lot of these stories you will learn about in the special features included in this release). From Pabst’s working in tandem with his cinematographer in capturing the scene the way he wanted, being their early in the morning and late at night to make sure they planned the details of what shots they wanted. It’s amazing to see all that is captured in this film.

It may seem a bit complex for a film that is not a talkie but the fact that he was able to capture so much in a silent film and show how Lulu is literally a pandora’s box and somehow hurts those who gets close to her. You have this sense of ambiguity if Lulu is even conscious about the things that she has done or does she even care, or is this just a matter of people who got caught up in situations that led to them to their demise or having them spiraling downward. And as much as this is a Pabst masterpiece and what he was able to get out of the characters and capture in camera, I also have to give praise to Ladislaus Vajda for creating the scenario of the characters.

Aside from the various versions, the film is just captivating. This is a film that utilizes facial expressions and action to tell a complex story and Pabst does a wonderful job in crafting this masterpiece. Louise Brooks is absolutely wonderful as Lulu and I agree that I can not see Marlene Dietrich performing the role of Lulu, this is a character that Brooks commands and it possibly helps that Louise Brooks and Lulu had many things in common and that people who have discovered the film are just intrigued by both Brooks in real life and Lulu in the film.

Pandora’s Box” is one of those silent films that must be put in your list of silent-film’s to own or to see.

[pickfair]

I have the Sunrise blu-ray from Amazon in England. Quality is good, but not significant upgrade from the Fox Murnau Borzage box set

[kndy]

Originally Posted by pickfair

I have the Sunrise blu-ray from Amazon in England. Quality is good, but not significant upgrade from the Fox Murnau Borzage box set

I am planning to buy that Murnau and Borzage box set!!! I have been waiting to see if it will go on sale. I don't think it will go down to $70-$80....hehe...

I did recently purchase the Warner Greta Garbo set, so I look forward to watching her silent films.

[pickfair]

since you enjoyed Louise in Pandora's Box, you should also get "Diary of a Lost Girl" also by Pabst & Louise, shot a year later in 1929. Both films didn't make it to the USA until 1929, and were mostly ignored because of the rampant switch to sound films at the time. Both are now classics. Kino has Diary

[pickfair]

here's a list of my favourites you should look into
1 - Birth of a Nation - 1915 - Kiino
2 - Rebecca of Sunnybrooke Farm - 1917 - not available
3 - The Eagle - 1925 - Paul Lilliam Collection, may be OOP
4 - Diary of a Lost Girl - 1929 - Kino
5 - Pandora's Box - 1928 - Criterion
6 - The General - 1927 - Kino Blu-rau
7 - Sunrise - 1927 - UK blu-ray
8 - Flesh & the Devil - 1927 - TCM box
9 - Big Parade - 1925 - not available
10 - City Lights - 1931 - various Chaplin DVD sets
11 - Sparrows - 1926 - Milestone
12 - Safety Last - 1923 - Harold Lloyd box set
13 - The Kid - 1921 - various Chaplin DVD sets
14 - Tess of the Storm Country - 1922 - Milestone
15 - Ben Hur - 1925 - inside the Warners Ben Hur 1959 set
16 - Orphans of the Storm - 1922 - Kino
17 - Hunchback of Notre Dane - 1923 - Kino
18 - Battleship Potempkin - 1925 - Kino
19 - Greed - 1924 - the 4 hour restoration - not available
20 - Wedding March - 1928 - not available
21 - Black Pirate - 1926 - Kino
22 - Phantom of the Opera - 1925 - Milestone
23 - Student Prince - 1923 - not available
24 - A Lady of Chance - 1928 - not available
25 - Metropolis - 1926 - Kino

[kndy]

I'll probably pickup the D.W. Griffith box set from Kino. The Chaplin sets (the good ones) are just so darn expensive right now. I wish I went after them when they were cheaper. Working on get the Ben Hur 4-disc set right now. I want that silent!

Oh and I definitely want "Big Parade" and "Greed"

[pickfair]

you may find Big Parade on VHS someplace. MGM had released it. The Greed VHS, I'm not sure if it was the 4 hour version on VHS or not, may have been en edited 2 hour version. You may find them on ebay, then just burn them to DVD-R

[repete66211]

I count myself as a fan of silent movies. I like them, but I don't believe they're precious or necessarily deserve special consideration--they need to be good enough to stand on their own.

In my experience drama wasn't handled as well back then. Still too close to the vaudeville and melodrama of the stage. While comedies have their share of corny pratfalls and banana peels, I think they have aged better, especially Keaton and Chaplin. (I know, hardly an original assertion.) Physical comedy just worked better with a silent format than did dramatic acting IMO.

One obvious exception here is Joan of Arc. The visuals of that movie are extraordinary. I would love to see it on Blu-ray. Some might make an argument for the German Expressionists, but IMO they're a bit gimmicky and over the top.

I love silents like I love old buildings and old photographs--they're a picture into the past that we can never revisit. Virtually every single person, right down to infants, are now dead. I also love seeing the location shots in and around LA and NY back in the teens and twenties and the different technology, fashion, etc. of the time period.

I was fortunate enough to have taken some pretty good movie classes. It's been years, but I enrolled in a one-time summer course that was three hours of silent movies four days a week for a month. Kevin Brownlow came to visit. There were only about 10 of us in the class and we all went down to the Buster Keaton Festival in Iola, Kansas (not far from Louise Brooks' hometown of Cherryvale). It was a great class but, unfortunately, with the compressed time sometimes I can't remember much of what I've seen.

Has anyone seen The Cheat? I remember liking it when I saw it, thinking it was a bit ahead of its time for 1915/6, although it's been some time since that happened.