Which speaker cable should I ........

[D_M]

Originally Posted by kareface

This thread makes me face palm as a physics guy. There are a few principles you could cite that would suggest that 1000$ cables might be better, but it would be less then 10% of a db's difference in sound. I'll direct you to a page written by one of the most respected mans in the field:



http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm#house



The article is huge, covers almost everything you could imagine. It also includes a max length guide for various gauge wiring at several ohm loads. I'd suggest anyone planing to spend more then what you pay at monoprice for cables should take the time to read that link first.

Thank you sir.

[D_M]

Here's a great quote from http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1157274


Quote:
Originally Posted by H/Kthunder
But, I use Monster Cable XP speaker cables for my Harmon/Kardon system and I definitely notice a difference between the cheaper standard cable and the higher quality monster cable. You also have to have a sensitive ear that can pick up the audio differences;just like some people can notice little changes on Hi-Def pictures.

Actually, what you really need is a vivid imagination and a gullibility to marketing claims. The human imagination is a very powerful thing and you are a victim of it. One doesn't have to have been to the moon to know it isn't made of green cheese.

The idea that expensive speaker wire or audio cables makes some sort of difference has been debunked time and time again. If you actually knew anything about electrical principles, you'd know their claims are BS.

[D_M]

This is TPnBobcats, a very knowledgeable chap:

"Except that it's been repeatedly proven that such "differences" are not something you can hear and that it is all in the mind of the person who shelled out a lot of money for these sorts of things.

I've seen more than one person claim that $3,000 power cords made an audible/visible difference in their AV system. (they don't)

I've seen more than one person claim that an expensive HDMI cable made some sort of "dramatic" improvement in their AV system. (they can't)

I remember when people started claiming that using a green magic marker on your CDs resulted in "dramatic" improvement in sound quality.

I've seen this sort of BS getting peddled time and time again by people who claim "Oh, you just can't hear it." I'm sorry folks, but people are gulible, suggestible and easily persuaded to believe things that have no basis in reality.

Expensive speaker wire is just one of them.

It's all part of this "magical thinking" that plagues us. Your beliefs are not superior to facts. Your subjective experiences don't trump evidence and tests."

[duder1234]

So, after reading this thread and understanding as much of the technical jargon as I can, will this monoprice.com compination of speaker wire and banana plugs work well for connecting my front speakers? -OR- Would I be better off using some of this wire (my pics) and the monoprice.com banana plugs (its not mine, gotta swipe it from the pops)?:

http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...seq=1&format=2

http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...ormat=2&style=

[ryan4blu]

yup and i am glad i read some of this thread. i have some really nice in the wall 12 gauge wire i will use instead of big $$$ cables. so is the thing with timing in the wire true? i have seen some wire that has this time wire in it that states it times the siginal??? not sure if that is what it means.

[D_M]

Originally Posted by ryan4blu

so is the thing with timing in the wire true? i have seen some wire that has this time wire in it that states it times the siginal??? not sure if that is what it means.

No, it's marketing BS. Electrons move at such an incredible speed any audible difference would be infinitesimal (infinitesimal is used to express the idea of objects so small that there is no way to see them or to measure them).

[D_M]

Here's another quote concerning cables and Monoprice:

"Originally Posted by H/Kthunder
Wow, this is quite interesting. All of the people that love monoprice cables, go ahead and recommend them, and I prefer monster cable so that's what i will recommend. Its completely unnecessary for anyone to attack someone's recommendation. Hrimnir, i have no idea what you're talking about "limiting people's response." Its an opinion/recommendation. If anyone's response should be limited it should be those who choose to argue about someone's recommendation. I have never used monoprice cables so i can't speak for that. I will however recommend the products that i have enjoyed. Some of you are getting too psychological on this issue. Just as i mentioned before, it all depends on what sounds good to your ear. If you don't trust your ears then I wonder how your home theater might sound like. If you spend money on monster cable just for the name or let the name/brand affect your decision during testing, then you're definitely not doing proper testing because you're letting a product influence your decision. If you really care about the sound coming out of your speakers you have to go past the brand/name of a product and do actual comparison/contrast of the sound it outputs.



I don't care what you recommend. I care why you recommend it.

I recommend Monoprice because their products are reasonably priced and get the job done. I was in Best Buy last week and they had a $90 monster HDMI cable that is absolutely no better than the $3 HDMI cable I got from Monoprice (and in my choice of colors too). It's people like you that keep getting the average consumer to waste $87 on a simple cable.

It's funny that you say people should do comparisons. Have you ever actually bothered to do a real double blind test to see if it isn't your imagination that there's a difference? Or like most "audiophiles" did you just go here's the sucky cheap cable that idiots use and then here's the expensive superduper cable that will make everything so much more wonderful your face will melt.

People are willing to back up my point of view with cash.

The Amazing Randi is offering a prize of $1,000,000 if you can distinguish between speaker wires reliably.

http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/calling-b...ter-305549.php

So since you find monster cable to be such a "clear" and "obvious" difference. Let me know what you do with your million dollars."

[D_M]

This is a great quote from the Russell article: http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm#house

"Perhaps, someday, Ken Kessler and several other audio perverts will condescend to take a controlled listening test. Several offers have been made for anyone who can correctly identify a particular kind of wire under controlled conditions. Challenges offering $15,000 or more have not even been tried by these “experts,” Ken could be a rich man if he could consistently identify differences in house wiring with controlled tests. I would encourage him to prove his abilities for the readers of Audio magazine who deserve the truth! (Webster’s defines perversion as: “to cause to turn aside or away from what is good or true or morally right: CORRUPT")".

[Johnny Vinyl]

A point of interest here D_M.

I have no doubt you feel strongly about your convinctions, but I can't help and feel that your posts are also somewhat hypocritical.

You agree with the pundits and slam those that believe a higher grade quality of cable can make a difference, but you don't follow your own advice.

Maybe once you remove those Cardas cables and IC's from your system and replace them with ones from Monoprice, can we truly take your posts seriously.

John

[D_M]

Originally Posted by John72953

A point of interest here D_M.

I have no doubt you feel strongly about your convinctions, but I can't help and feel that your posts are also somewhat hypocritical.

You agree with the pundits and slam those that believe a higher grade quality of cable can make a difference, but you don't follow your own advice.

Maybe once you remove those Cardas cables and IC's from your system and replace them with ones from Monoprice, can we truly take your posts seriously.

John

That is an interesting observation. I have them in the system only because I've had them quite a while. And you're right, I have been thinking about selling them since I've come across all this information.

[ManUtd]

D_M thanks for posting all the links. First, I hope this thread doesn't turn into a flame war. It has happened many times in other forums and here as well. Sometimes it gets really ugly. I have no time and interest in that. Second, I'm on your side in this topic. Third, I hope someone reads and understands them and get educated. Lastly, unfortunately whatever you posted will fall on deaf ears for some members here who truly believe that $$$$ ICs, speaker cables and power cords make dramatic differences...and there are quite a few of them here. They're adults and already "educated" and it's their money so I couldn't care less how they spend it. With them, perhaps the best resolution is to agree to disagree and move on.

[D_M]

Originally Posted by John72953

Maybe once you remove those Cardas cables and IC's from your system and replace them with ones from Monoprice, can we truly take your posts seriously.

John

I'm only spreading the education. These are legitimate empirical scientific claims that refute subjectivity. If anyone here can hear any audible differences between cables then you should sign up to take one of the above challenges and earn some extra cash.

[D_M]

Originally Posted by ManUtd

Lastly, unfortunately whatever you posted will fall on deaf ears for some members here who truly believe that $$$$ ICs, speaker cables and power cords make dramatic differences...and there are quite a few of them here.

I think you're right. The believers will defend their faith no matter what the scientific claims of physics state. Let's call it a day then shall we?

[Johnny Vinyl]

Originally Posted by D_M

That is an interesting observation. I have them in the system only because I've had them quite a while. And you're right, I have been thinking about selling them since I've come across all this information.

I was kinda teasing you with that, but I'm glad you agree it was a valid observation.

There is a lot of snake-oil marketing in high(er)-end audio, and I for one have probably bought into it at times. I do however think, that all of the upgrades I've made, and yes that includes all of the various types of connection cables, have improved on the sound quality of my simple set-up. I don't have Golden Ears, but I do know what to listen for and, as such, have made good decisions. It will be said these upgrades are "placebo effects", and hey, maybe they are. Quite frankly I don't really care as the only person that has to listen to my system is yours truly.

The one thing I do know for certain is that the music will always come first and I am not interested (also read: not financially able) to get my system to level whereby I am in constant search of the next "fix". There are a few more upgrades I want to make over the next few years, but after that...I'm calling a time-out.

John

[D_M]

Originally Posted by John72953

I was kinda teasing you with that, but I'm glad you agree it was a valid observation.

There is a lot of snake-oil marketing in high(er)-end audio, and I for one have probably bought into it at times. I do however think, that all of the upgrades I've made, and yes that includes all of the various types of connection cables, have improved on the sound quality of my simple set-up. I don't have Golden Ears, but I do know what to listen for and, as such, have made good decisions. It will be said these upgrades are "placebo effects", and hey, maybe they are. Quite frankly I don't really care as the only person that has to listen to my system is yours truly.

The one thing I do know for certain is that the music will always come first and I am not interested (also read: not financially able) to get my system to level whereby I am in constant search of the next "fix". There are a few more upgrades I want to make over the next few years, but after that...I'm calling a time-out.

John

I totally agree with you. As long as you're happy then that's all that matters. I don't have Golden Ears either and my wife is getting tired of my upgrades lol, so I'm in the same boat of slowing the machine down for a while. And you're right again, the music does come first.

[duder1234]

Originally Posted by duder1234

So, after reading this thread and understanding as much of the technical jargon as I can, will this monoprice.com compination of speaker wire and banana plugs work well for connecting my front speakers? -OR- Would I be better off using some of this wire (my pics) and the monoprice.com banana plugs (its not mine, gotta swipe it from the pops)?:

http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...seq=1&format=2

http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...ormat=2&style=

Anyone?

The other images are in post #44.

[D_M]

Originally Posted by duder1234

Anyone?

The other images are in post #44.

I think the Moonoprice cables will work just fine.

[duder1234]

Thanks dude!

[duder1234]

One more quick one. Will anything change if I decide to go with the "in-wall" wire instead of the other stuff? I won't be putting the wire in the wall, I just like the white jacket with color coding.

http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...seq=1&format=2

[D_M]

Originally Posted by duder1234

One more quick one. Will anything change if I decide to go with the "in-wall" wire instead of the other stuff? I won't be putting the wire in the wall, I just like the white jacket with color coding.

http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...seq=1&format=2

In-wall usually means that it's fire resistant or meets fire code. You're good to go.