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Go Back   Blu-ray Forum > Audio > Subwoofers

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Old 02-20-2010, 12:44 AM   #1
Kali157 Kali157 is offline
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Default ED A2-300 VS Premier Acoustic PA-120

Okay before everyone yells "Get the ED A2-300!" let me be more specific in what I am looking for. I am looking to update my sub and I have been looking all over these forums trying to pick btwn these two subs. Now I my room isnt that big (12x13x9) and I am not looking for a sub that can resuscitate someone who has gone into cardiac arrest. I am not really interested in seeing if I can shake my house off its foundations either. What I am looking for is for a sub that will blend well with my setup (Polk Cs20 center, Polk TSi200 fronts, Klipsch S-2 surround). I am looking for a sub that can produce a good range at med high volumes. So again I am not looking to turn my living room into a club.

I was going for the PS120 for the looks and its smaller size, but have also heard so much about the ED. Has anyone tried BOTH of them out and compared? On paper (aside from dimension) they seem very close. I am looking to save as much money as I can but I am also willing to spend if it is worth it for my use (hey money saved equals blu ray money!). I know there are many that own the Ed but I am looking for more of a comparison than a straight endorsement of one sub over another.

Thanks everyone for the help.
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Old 02-20-2010, 12:59 AM   #2
Driver_King Driver_King is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kali157 View Post
Okay before everyone yells "Get the ED A2-300!" let me be more specific in what I am looking for. I am looking to update my sub and I have been looking all over these forums trying to pick btwn these two subs. Now I my room isnt that big (12x13x9) and I am not looking for a sub that can resuscitate someone who has gone into cardiac arrest. I am not really interested in seeing if I can shake my house off its foundations either. What I am looking for is for a sub that will blend well with my setup (Polk Cs20 center, Polk TSi200 fronts, Klipsch S-2 surround). I am looking for a sub that can produce a good range at med high volumes. So again I am not looking to turn my living room into a club.

I was going for the PS120 for the looks and its smaller size, but have also heard so much about the ED. Has anyone tried BOTH of them out and compared? On paper (aside from dimension) they seem very close. I am looking to save as much money as I can but I am also willing to spend if it is worth it for my use (hey money saved equals blu ray money!). I know there are many that own the Ed but I am looking for more of a comparison than a straight endorsement of one sub over another.

Thanks everyone for the help.
Just for reference, the room size does not have any indication on what size subwoofer you should use, unless WAF is the only deciding factor. To be clear, a good subwoofer should integrate well with your system, should not stand out, and should have ample headroom for intense passages, in music and movies alike. In this regard, the A2-300 beats out the PA-120. Properly calibrated, the A2-300 would make an excellent addition to your system. The PA-120 is not a bad sub at all and would also make a nice addition. In my opinion, if you have the money, you should get the best sub you can get, and in this case, the A2-300 is it.
My recommended setup for Home Theater Virgins:

Speakers: Polk Monitor 50's, Polk Monitor 40's, Polk CS2 Center, and eD subwoofer or
HTIB: Polk 5.1 system and
Receiver: Non-Network Onkyo TX-SR608 or Onkyo HT-RC180 Network Receiver
Monoprice-For all your cable needs...

Personal Setup + Subwoofer
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Old 02-20-2010, 01:03 AM   #3
ryandubbz ryandubbz is offline
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You can always get the more quality sub . . . . a2-300, and you dont have to calibrate it to a high decibel range, Calibrate it to about 70-72db, and it will sound great and "not shake your house off its foundation"

Get the better quality sub and dont run it as hot, and then later on when you want that better sub because you might want to shake your house, you can always turn up the gain some more to make it louder
Panasonic 65GT30----------------(Display)
Onkyo 706------------------------(AVR)
Emotiva XPA-3--------------------(External Amp)
PS3--------------------------------(Blu-ray Player)
(2)eD A2-300's <on eD risers>---(Subs)
Focal Chorus 816V's & 800v------(Fronts and Center)
Focal Chorus 806v----------------(Surrounds)
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Old 02-20-2010, 01:08 AM   #4
Driver_King Driver_King is offline
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Headroom is great. Overkill can always be tamed and you will definitely get on the sub, whether you think you will or not.
My recommended setup for Home Theater Virgins:

Speakers: Polk Monitor 50's, Polk Monitor 40's, Polk CS2 Center, and eD subwoofer or
HTIB: Polk 5.1 system and
Receiver: Non-Network Onkyo TX-SR608 or Onkyo HT-RC180 Network Receiver
Monoprice-For all your cable needs...

Personal Setup + Subwoofer
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Old 02-20-2010, 01:30 AM   #5
Kali157 Kali157 is offline
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true headroom is great... but its kinda like having a 500 hp car and a 300 hp car (looks being equal) that you only drive on the highway. yes one can go 200 mph but in reality you will only drive either car 90mph (b/c I dont see myself trying to crack the foundation.... well maybe... jk).

I guess my question is this: is the draw to the Ed b/c of the decibels it can produce? I am not trying to put the ED down, its just that from the posts I have read, it IS about trying to restart someone's heart with bass (not that that can be kinda fun).

This is why I am asking if anyone has heard/owned both of these. At medium high levels watching a movie, can I tell the difference between these two calibrated to the same level (ie not overpowering the rest of the system)?

I am just going by my experience with choosing my center channel. Quite a few people in various forums said that the difference btwn the polk CS10 and CS20 is negligible. Well, 45 min in a Fry's demo booth showed me a HUGE difference btwn the two. I WISH I can demo both of these subs.

Again thanks for the responses and any perspective.
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Old 02-20-2010, 04:07 AM   #6
callas01 callas01 is offline
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the eD doesn't have to be turned up loud, my room is 12x15 its not huge, and with the gain turned up to 1/4 of the way, maybe a little more, and it is fine in my room.

If the size of the unit or the driver concerns you get the Hsu STF-2, its a great sub, only a 10" but plays much fuller and deeper then its size
Video: Panasonic 55" P55ST50, Oppo BDP-103
Amplification: Integra DTR-40.2, Naim Nait XS-2 Integrated, Jolida FX Tube DAC
Speakers: Dynaudio Focus 260s, Focus 210 C, DM 2/6, Energy C-50
Subwoofer:
Hsu VTF-2 MK4, Auralex Subriser

Bedroom: Samsung LNT-4061 40" LCD, Sony BDP-360, XBox 360
Girls room: Vizio 32" VX32L, Sony Upconverting DVD player
Boys room: Samsung 32" LN32B360, Panasonic BD-35k
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Old 02-20-2010, 04:31 AM   #7
tootall82103 tootall82103 is offline
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No love for BIC?
check out the PL-200
http://www.sounddistributors.com/buy...red+Subwoofers
if you use the coupon code tv15 you can get a discount for a total of $280 shipped.
I have the VK-12 which is pretty much the same thing. Very nice sub, soundwise and looks. I'm still waiting to find a review of the BIC VK-12/PL-200 vs the A2-300. I bet they are both about even though.
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Old 02-20-2010, 04:34 AM   #8
Driver_King Driver_King is offline
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I have a dual 18" subwoofer and an additional 12" subwoofer in my 12' x 14' bedroom. I have headroom for year. I calibrated my DIY A7-900 for 95dB just to mess around one day and felt like I was only scratching the surface of where it could actually go. Currently, I have both of my subwoofers calibrated, along with the rest of my speakers, to 75dB. There is not one time ever where the bass is overpowering. I used to own the A2-300 and raved about it for as long as I owned it. It is a great subwoofer. It will definitely have the SPL capabilites along with musicality and finesse you would not expect under $500. The A2-300 can get down to 16hz at around 90dB, which is not bad at all. I'm suspecting the PA can only get down to about 22hz maybe around 90dB. I believe the A2-300 does 20hz at 96dB average. If you watch movies, you absolutely will notice the difference. Even at very low listening levels, the A2-300 is a stunning performer. People have gone from more expensive subwoofers, like the Klipsch Sub 12 for example, and don't regret it one bit. The A2-300 is still one of, if not the best performers under $500. I don't intend to sound defensive or like a salesman or anything. I'm just trying to give you a bit of my personal experience and thoughts. Performance wise, there is no doubt in my mind that the A2-300 is the top performer of the two.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kali157 View Post
true headroom is great... but its kinda like having a 500 hp car and a 300 hp car (looks being equal) that you only drive on the highway. yes one can go 200 mph but in reality you will only drive either car 90mph (b/c I dont see myself trying to crack the foundation.... well maybe... jk).

I guess my question is this: is the draw to the Ed b/c of the decibels it can produce? I am not trying to put the ED down, its just that from the posts I have read, it IS about trying to restart someone's heart with bass (not that that can be kinda fun).

This is why I am asking if anyone has heard/owned both of these. At medium high levels watching a movie, can I tell the difference between these two calibrated to the same level (ie not overpowering the rest of the system)?

I am just going by my experience with choosing my center channel. Quite a few people in various forums said that the difference btwn the polk CS10 and CS20 is negligible. Well, 45 min in a Fry's demo booth showed me a HUGE difference btwn the two. I WISH I can demo both of these subs.

Again thanks for the responses and any perspective.
My recommended setup for Home Theater Virgins:

Speakers: Polk Monitor 50's, Polk Monitor 40's, Polk CS2 Center, and eD subwoofer or
HTIB: Polk 5.1 system and
Receiver: Non-Network Onkyo TX-SR608 or Onkyo HT-RC180 Network Receiver
Monoprice-For all your cable needs...

Personal Setup + Subwoofer
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Old 02-20-2010, 07:29 PM   #9
Kali157 Kali157 is offline
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Driver_King, first off you are NOT defensive or "salesman" like. Your post is EXACTLY the type of comparative analysis I am looking for, even if you have not owned the PA120.

Tootall, the BIC sounds VERY intriguing. Thanks for the suggestion and the coupon (btw does that coupon expire?). $279 out the door sounds great. I am actually considering this over the PA120. I am trying to search for reviews on the sub but can only find some forum posts. Any help?

I was actually about to pull the trigger on the ED but after looking at the sub, something kinda bugged me about it... its the look. I wish they invested a little more in the the look of their sub esp since it is so BIG. Ultimately I think this may stop me from purchasing their sub.

Maybe BIC is a good medium btwn look and function... and price. Any thoughts?

Thanks again for the responses
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Old 02-20-2010, 08:08 PM   #10
4x12 4x12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kali157 View Post
Driver_King, first off you are NOT defensive or "salesman" like. Your post is EXACTLY the type of comparative analysis I am looking for, even if you have not owned the PA120.

Tootall, the BIC sounds VERY intriguing. Thanks for the suggestion and the coupon (btw does that coupon expire?). $279 out the door sounds great. I am actually considering this over the PA120. I am trying to search for reviews on the sub but can only find some forum posts. Any help?

I was actually about to pull the trigger on the ED but after looking at the sub, something kinda bugged me about it... its the look. I wish they invested a little more in the the look of their sub esp since it is so BIG. Ultimately I think this may stop me from purchasing their sub.

Maybe BIC is a good medium btwn look and function... and price. Any thoughts?

Thanks again for the responses
wow... this is what I actually liked about the sub! That rugged "bring it on mofo's" kinda look it's got. I already have enough to worry about with the esthetics of my MA's! This sub looks like it can go to war and come out on top... something less to worry about. The other sub on my list was the SVS Plus, but man it wasnt even here and I was worried about getting a scratch on that piano black finish... And the eD means a little less cleaning!

I would like to see a small logo on it somewhere... but then again no badge looks badass
HT Room:
Monster HDP-2400, Panny 50" PZ800, PS3 80g, Oppo BDP-83, Explorer 4250 HD, Emo UPA-5, 3x Emo UPA-1's,
Pioneer Elite SC-07, Marantz CD5003, Axiom QS8's, Monitor Audio RS6 & RSLCR (Walnut), Four eD A2-300's, Harmony ONE.
Bedroom:Monster HDP-2400, Samsung PN42B450, PS3 Slim, SA Explorer 4250 HD, Gamecube
How to train your Dragon - Big Dragon scene-Scene 15 at 1:21:00 :D Play it loud!!
Rate me!

Last edited by 4x12; 02-20-2010 at 08:12 PM.
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Old 02-20-2010, 08:09 PM   #11
Kali157 Kali157 is offline
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Ooooh The BIC PL-200 or the VK-12? Doe the Kevlar make a difference in performance or durability?
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Old 02-20-2010, 08:12 PM   #12
callas01 callas01 is offline
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http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/stf-2.html

Take a look at the above sub, it is more expensive then the Bic with the coupon, but Hsu has a very good reputation, and they make some really excellent subs. Bass is accurate and sounds great and full.
Video: Panasonic 55" P55ST50, Oppo BDP-103
Amplification: Integra DTR-40.2, Naim Nait XS-2 Integrated, Jolida FX Tube DAC
Speakers: Dynaudio Focus 260s, Focus 210 C, DM 2/6, Energy C-50
Subwoofer:
Hsu VTF-2 MK4, Auralex Subriser

Bedroom: Samsung LNT-4061 40" LCD, Sony BDP-360, XBox 360
Girls room: Vizio 32" VX32L, Sony Upconverting DVD player
Boys room: Samsung 32" LN32B360, Panasonic BD-35k
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Old 02-20-2010, 08:17 PM   #13
Kali157 Kali157 is offline
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I heard that Hsu had some influence over the BIC Pl-200 production. The back looks almost identical to the STf-2.
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Old 02-20-2010, 08:27 PM   #14
callas01 callas01 is offline
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Hsu also worked in partnership with outlaw audio for their subs, Hsu is an awesome sub MFG. eD is also an awesome MFG, and if you dont want something so big, you can look at the eD sealed subs, they are a little smaller and still have great bang for the buck.
Video: Panasonic 55" P55ST50, Oppo BDP-103
Amplification: Integra DTR-40.2, Naim Nait XS-2 Integrated, Jolida FX Tube DAC
Speakers: Dynaudio Focus 260s, Focus 210 C, DM 2/6, Energy C-50
Subwoofer:
Hsu VTF-2 MK4, Auralex Subriser

Bedroom: Samsung LNT-4061 40" LCD, Sony BDP-360, XBox 360
Girls room: Vizio 32" VX32L, Sony Upconverting DVD player
Boys room: Samsung 32" LN32B360, Panasonic BD-35k
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Old 02-20-2010, 09:54 PM   #15
Kali157 Kali157 is offline
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would you recommend the Hsu STf2 over the Bic pl200? The Hsu is 10 inch over the 12 inch BIC. and again the BIC is said to have been worked on by Hsu... am I missing something?

As for sealed subs, I heard ported are better for movies. Am I off on this?
THanks
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Old 02-20-2010, 10:03 PM   #16
Kali157 Kali157 is offline
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@4x12... hahahha true true... to each their own I guess. For me, the concert speaker look doesnt do it for me... But you are right, a badge would be nice.
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Old 02-20-2010, 11:05 PM   #17
ZIPPO ZIPPO is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kali157 View Post
I heard that Hsu had some influence over the BIC Pl-200 production. The back looks almost identical to the STf-2.
They both use BASH amps. SVS & a few other companies also use BASH amps.
LIVING ROOM: Panasonic TC-P65V10, SONY BDP-S5000ES, SONY STR-DA5300ES, Emotiva XPA-5, Def Tech(BP2006 x 2, C/L/R2300, BP2X x 2, BP1.2X x 2)
BEDROOM: SONY KDL-52XBR5, OPPO BDP-103, Pioneer Elite SC-63, Energy(RC-LCR x 3), Paradigm(ADP-190 x 2), SVS PC12-PLUS



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Last edited by ZIPPO; 02-20-2010 at 11:25 PM.
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Old 02-21-2010, 04:55 AM   #18
callas01 callas01 is offline
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In my experience with subs, I can say that Hsu subs are worth every penny. If Hsu is helping Outlaw and Bic make their subs, then I would rather have the Hsu for they are the company with the research and development that probably extends beyond what they have shared.

However, the eDs provide a better overall bang for the buck because they get deeper, they are very accurate, bass is smooth and deep, they don't have quite as flat of a response as the Hsu, but its not off by much.

Personally the eD is the best bang for the buck Sub out there. I wanted the Hsu VTF-2 MK3, and Driver King can tell you that I PM'd him several times about both subs, but I just felt for $350 I can get nearly everything that the VTF-2 provides, except the Variable tuning, and save $300.

For $350 there isn't anything better then the eD A2-300, however if you want something smaller and very accurate and the STF-2 is IMO one of the best out there after the eD. Not to mention that I feel you get more from an Internet Direct sub MFG then you get from one that sells through a retailer, dollar for dollar.
Video: Panasonic 55" P55ST50, Oppo BDP-103
Amplification: Integra DTR-40.2, Naim Nait XS-2 Integrated, Jolida FX Tube DAC
Speakers: Dynaudio Focus 260s, Focus 210 C, DM 2/6, Energy C-50
Subwoofer:
Hsu VTF-2 MK4, Auralex Subriser

Bedroom: Samsung LNT-4061 40" LCD, Sony BDP-360, XBox 360
Girls room: Vizio 32" VX32L, Sony Upconverting DVD player
Boys room: Samsung 32" LN32B360, Panasonic BD-35k

Last edited by callas01; 02-21-2010 at 05:10 AM.
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Old 02-21-2010, 07:23 AM   #19
Kali157 Kali157 is offline
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I wish a home theater site or magazine would review these subs (ed, Bic, PA, etc). I just wish we had a benchmark with someone that has had two to all these subs in the same room, equipment, etc. Even better, I wish some of these subs would show up in a demo room.

Anyway, based on the specs, looks, and the price, I think I maybe going with the Bic Pl200. The Ed is just going to be too big and too dominating as a piece of equipment in my room. It just boils down to looks. Anyone has thoughts on the VK-12 vs the Pl-200? The kevlar woofer make a difference?

Thanks to everyone's input. Maybe when I get my sub I can invite anyone in my area w/ a ed or Pa to come over for drinks, food, and a sub comparison... possibly help any future buyers.
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Old 02-21-2010, 08:05 AM   #20
tootall82103 tootall82103 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kali157 View Post
I wish a home theater site or magazine would review these subs (ed, Bic, PA, etc). I just wish we had a benchmark with someone that has had two to all these subs in the same room, equipment, etc. Even better, I wish some of these subs would show up in a demo room.

Anyway, based on the specs, looks, and the price, I think I maybe going with the Bic Pl200. The Ed is just going to be too big and too dominating as a piece of equipment in my room. It just boils down to looks. Anyone has thoughts on the VK-12 vs the Pl-200? The kevlar woofer make a difference?

Thanks to everyone's input. Maybe when I get my sub I can invite anyone in my area w/ a ed or Pa to come over for drinks, food, and a sub comparison... possibly help any future buyers.
Maybe the PL-200 is a bit more fine tuned being part of the acoustech series. Really not sure though. I picked the VK-12 because I liked the yellow driver. Both will probably yield similar performance. I don't think you could go wrong with either though. I plan to pick up another VK-12 down the road.
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