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Old 11-04-2010, 06:01 AM   #21
divyansh divyansh is offline
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just watched the whole film mohabbatein and my verdict is GO FOR IT

the movie was amazing for me.....it was surely 4/5
music was really very soulful and amazing 4.5/5
the background score was effective 4.25/5
the cinematography amazing the visuals were 5/5
simply mind blowing
sound mix (taking time into consideration) 4.5/5

comming to the blu ray

Picture Quality(again taking age of film into consideration) 4.25/5
OR
(In general-no age factor into consideration) 3.75/5

Sound Quality (again taking age of film into consideration) 4.5/5
OR
(In general-no age factor into consideration) 4/5

and i forgot to mention the thing that the DIALOGUES sound cristal clear and crisp and highly detailed.....better than many recent films....though the sound of the singers in the songs is just opposite.....i thing it has to do with the quality of the microphones......but the movie i remember comes close to this type of dialogue recording is SIN CITY...

overall 4/5
(SINCE THIS MOVIE IS 10 YEARS OF AGE IT HAS MADE ITS AUDIENCE THE ONE'S WHO LIKE THE MOVIE MAY GO FOR IT AND OTHERS MAY NOT......BUT I FELT IN LOVE WITH THE MOVIE--i think others may rent it first.....they no longer make these kind-of movies and music anymore)

REGARDS
DIVYANSH

Last edited by divyansh; 11-04-2010 at 09:17 AM.
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Old 11-04-2010, 01:42 PM   #22
Shiaedoeu Shiaedoeu is offline
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Good thoughts! But you know, I think the songs were always a little effed up like that. At leas the CD version I have of them doesn't sound that great. So maybe that's just how they were recorded and mastered, like you suggested.
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Old 11-04-2010, 02:49 PM   #23
divyansh divyansh is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiaedoeu View Post
Good thoughts! But you know, I think the songs were always a little effed up like that. At leas the CD version I have of them doesn't sound that great. So maybe that's just how they were recorded and mastered, like you suggested.
yaa the voice of singers made me realise the movie was 10 years old.....else where it was brilliant.......the sound designers and mixers really did a commendable job....!!
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Old 11-04-2010, 03:08 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by divyansh View Post
bloody hell...this is so unprofessional on their part......!! they spend so much on the movie and its other things but such kind of attitude towards the most important thing!!!! at the end of the day they are the shots by camera which we see on our screens......!!! these people should use proper care while handling film stock......!!! and should use proper 2K OR 4K screens for colour grading and vfx and even while shooting to correct the shot...and the focus pullers should also been given proper training so that they give the perfect shot always.......as the attitude of big stars or directors......they wont give a re-take just beacuse the shot was not properly focussed.....!! all this should be taken care by the cinematographer of the movie.....
This is why I love Ravi K. Chandran's movies on bluray...In my opinion, he is simply the best...He takes care in all his movies...Thats why we have well authored blurays that have excellent picture quality like Saawariya, My Name is Khan, Ghajini, and RNBDJ. More of his movies should be released like Black, Yuva, Dil Chahta Hai (needs to be re-released), and more recent Anjaana Anjaani (COME ON EROS!!)..
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Old 11-04-2010, 03:13 PM   #25
toddly6666 toddly6666 is offline
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No one has said anything about the quality of the English subtitles...

How are the English subtitles on this blu-ray?
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Old 11-05-2010, 03:29 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arjun1591 View Post
This is why I love Ravi K. Chandran's movies on bluray...In my opinion, he is simply the best...He takes care in all his movies...Thats why we have well authored blurays that have excellent picture quality like Saawariya, My Name is Khan, Ghajini, and RNBDJ. More of his movies should be released like Black, Yuva, Dil Chahta Hai (needs to be re-released), and more recent Anjaana Anjaani (COME ON EROS!!)..
yaa ravi.k chandaran is one of the top cinematographers in the country but still during is older days dil chahta hai even had some out of focus some blurred shots as quoted by mhafner in some other site

Quote:
Originally Posted by mhafner
DCH has its share of out of focus shots and also intended soft focus from diffusion filters. And blurry edges from old lenses. Nothing that can be done here basically (or should). The problems we have to solve are scan related and related to poor digital work we have to undo and then properly redo
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Old 11-05-2010, 11:19 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toddly6666 View Post
No one has said anything about the quality of the English subtitles...

How are the English subtitles on this blu-ray?
OK brother, just to answer your question in every possible detail as it is not specific what exactly u wanna know;

1) Subtitles are 2.35 Friendly i.e. within Movie frame and not on black bars.
2) Are not for hearing Impaired.
3) Are in white and not in yellow font as is the case with a few Hollywood discs.
4) Translation is good as it usually is with YRF discs.
5) Does not have the out of sync/superfast and non-readable subtitles issue that Dil Bole Hadippa(according to Sanjay's Review) had.
6) Songs are subtitled as well. When first line is repeated, subs do not repeat.
7) The only second language for subs is Arabic. (I wonder why? space issues?)
8)Special Features are not subtitled.

Hope that helps. Cheers for the movie's 10th Anniversary(29th October). Happy Diwali
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Old 11-05-2010, 02:42 PM   #28
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Thanks for the info. It DOES help.
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Old 11-05-2010, 02:59 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anurag1700 View Post
OK brother, just to answer your question in every possible detail as it is not specific what exactly u wanna know;

1) Subtitles are 2.35 Friendly i.e. within Movie frame and not on black bars.
2) Are not for hearing Impaired.
3) Are in white and not in yellow font as is the case with a few Hollywood discs.
4) Translation is good as it usually is with YRF discs.
5) Does not have the out of sync/superfast and non-readable subtitles issue that Dil Bole Hadippa(according to Sanjay's Review) had.
6) Songs are subtitled as well. When first line is repeated, subs do not repeat.
7) The only second language for subs is Arabic. (I wonder why? space issues?)
8)Special Features are not subtitled.

Hope that helps. Cheers for the movie's 10th Anniversary(29th October). Happy Diwali
That's what I call perfect information - thanks buddy!
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Old 11-10-2010, 02:06 PM   #30
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Had a look at the mohabbatein BD last night. Anuraag has done a great job in reviewing it and hence I am just going to add a few things

Things I liked
  • Some scenes has great dynamic range and helps in creating the image pop.
  • Sound design for its age is quite good
  • Night scenes that are well lit looked great but could have been much better with slightly less contrast and a warmer color temp.
  • Picture appears quite punchy at times (although technically not correct in some scenes of that type)


Things I didn't liked
  • Inconsistent color and sharpness (soft focus on corners and bottom)
  • Color burn effect on white or light coloured objects in many scenes (look for white shirts. clouds, lights etc)
  • Some scenes looked like DVD - less detail and depth
  • Skin tone is really bad
  • Edge enhancement in many scenes although it is not visible throughout the movie.
  • Contrast is bit on higher side in most scenes outdoor scenes looked too contrasty and not filmic.

My few cents....
Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.- Martin Luther King, Jr.
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Old 11-10-2010, 05:55 PM   #31
Anurag1700 Anurag1700 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anibap View Post
Had a look at the mohabbatein BD last night. Anuraag has done a great job in reviewing it and hence I am just going to add a few things
Things I didn't liked
  • Color burn effect on white or light coloured objects in many scenes (look for white shirts. clouds, lights etc)
  • Skin tone is really bad
  • Contrast is bit on higher side in most scenes outdoor scenes looked too contrasty and not filmic.

My few cents....
Wow Ani. Thanks again for the kind words. I completely agree with all your points. Even though less words, still your points have an indication of the eye for detail that very few have got ....and (let me say this again) especially when u do this for a movie u found 'awful', it makes me appreciate the effort even more.

Now I am just curious to know something about the above points in the box. This is just for my understanding and learning of some terms. So please enlighten me:-

Can u spot just one example/scene of color burn to help me understand this term better?

Skin tone is really bad I agree. My question is u think this is a function of source itself and is it something that can be corrected while transferring to BD?

'scenes looked too contrasty and not filmic'. This is bang on and very clearly my reason for stating the last statement in my comments that this is not how the film looks in Theatres. The biggest mystery for me is How do people create an original source that was not intended to look filmic?... I am not referring to DNR use here...but the original source of source itself if u can get what i mean.
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Old 11-11-2010, 10:59 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anurag1700 View Post
Wow Ani. Thanks again for the kind words. I completely agree with all your points. Even though less words, still your points have an indication of the eye for detail that very few have got ....and (let me say this again) especially when u do this for a movie u found 'awful', it makes me appreciate the effort even more.
Anurag,

Thanks for your comments. As I mentioned earlier my liking of movies and more so with can be achieved with Blu-Ray technology for home viewers has allowed me to look into things in a more clinical way. Some can say it is bad to find issues but I would say with Blu-ray technology we should have the best possible image and sound. Of course there are limitations in terms of restoration, processing, funding etc but we still see trivial issues what we used to see in DVDs.

With bollywood, issues are more prominent with every 2 release out of three release. Hollywood BDs also have similar problems but less prominent.

Coming back to your points

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anurag1700 View Post
Can u spot just one example/scene of color burn to help me understand this term better?
It is actually called contrast boost that tends to create a burn effect on light coloure objects. Essentially, the detail on white objects are lost and you may see a fluorescence effect as well. Light colour objects are more affected than dark objects. The effect can be easily seen in a large display - bigger than 50 inches otherwise such effects are too small to notice in smaller screens. On my 100 inch screen they just scream at me...

Assuming your display is calibrated (if not do that as a priority) try this exercise.

Step 1: Take a reference quality BD with balanced contrast and a Calibration disk. Make sure your white level (contrast control) is calibrated in the test pattern and you are able to see all shades of white distinctly. Now, take a note of a high contrast outdoor scene in the BD with light coloure objects like white shirts, clouds etc. It should look great with detail on such light objects.

Step 2. Using the Calibration disk increase the contrast and make the test pattern burn with the shades of white overlapped and difficult to differentiate. You will see one side of the test pattern is showing a white burn effect. Now see the same scene and you will notice that white and light object detail is lost and the are seems like it is burnt with that colour (whte/yellow etc)

Now if you have a calibrated display it will show all reference quality BDs in full glory and at the same time it will also show the issues with badly authored / sourced BDs in a very ugly way. If you see contrast boos and color burn issues in a calibrated display you will know that the BD has issues. (Some movies are intentionally made to look with high contrast by the director. )

A good authored picture can be made to look bad by tweaking but making a bad picture look good is very difficult and only a little can be achived. In this case if the detail in the lighter parts of the picture is already contrast boosted and burnt, you cannot get it back by reducing contrast in display. You can reduce the effect of the burn but won't get the full detail. The concept is same as in Photo exposure. In photography it is better to take pictures with low exposures than overexposed as detail in overexposed image is permanently lost and cannot be retreived. This could have been the case with older movies with old cameras and lenses and settings used while filming. many directors didn't use filters that can cut down on film getting overexposed.

Can this be fixed? To some extent yes as long as there is a good source but requires a lot of money to select and treat the best possible source and do a lot of post processing before authoring the BD.

In mohabbatein, there are plenty of scenes demonstrating that effect and I don't recall any particular scene but look for very high contrast scenes in daylight. I think one I remember (as I was skipping chapters only) when Jimmy Shergil goes to meet Preeti in a kind of a temple. Look at his shoulder and other white parts. The detail on his shadow and the clouds behind is lost.

I do not have a PC BD drive so I won't be able to take screenshots but the folloiwng examples from both Hollywood BD s and bollywood BDs will give you an idea of what is colour burn and halso due to boosted contrast.

You can find more in the thread I posted here

Hope this will help to understand the issue. Other than loss of detail the biggest thing I hate with contrast boosting is it strips the image of its filmic quality. The 1st and 2nd picture shows you exactly that and how it was made very filmic when it was restored. I hate video like images in BD but I understand many people likes it as they think it is very punchy. If you look closer you will see you are watching a terrible picture in real.


Hollywood
- look at thesky and the highlighted portions of his armour and left part of his face. The old version had the detail lost and the new one has it restored


First Release - Look at the sky and other objects

Remastered - Now see how the detail has been restored. Even his waistband is clear and distinct with balanced contrast.


Bollywood BDs - Look at the white and lighter areas appear burnt due to boosted contrast and detail is lost. Apaharan, Cheni Kum, Jail, Shootout at L etc. The striking thing is all bolly examples look like digital video and not filmic but many people liked these BDs





Quote:
Originally Posted by Anurag1700 View Post
Skin tone is really bad I agree. My question is u think this is a function of source itself and is it something that can be corrected while transferring to BD?
It is difficult to say unless I know if the source was not processd while making the BD or if it was a direct encoding without tampering source. Source processing before BD authoring is expensive and requires special skills. Most authoring houses keeps it untouched. DEI is one such company who just encodes the source as it is. In such cases, if the source DPX files are bad, you get exactly the same replica. The studio in this case is responsible.

If the authroing house is processing the source they must know what they are doing and must be done against reference standards and not just by what the technician sees. In the field of movies other than the director / DOP no other person should use their preference in video.

So, it can be corrected but at what stage will be determined by the source.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anurag1700 View Post
'scenes looked too contrasty and not filmic'. This is bang on and very clearly my reason for stating the last statement in my comments that this is not how the film looks in Theatres. The biggest mystery for me is How do people create an original source that was not intended to look filmic?... I am not referring to DNR use here...but the original source of source itself if u can get what i mean.
The term 'Filmic' is used by movie makers and purists as something which has an analogue feel to it and does not look digital. It must have balanced contrast and should not look like what you see in TV or PC monitor.

This is where a projector or modern good quality Plasma and LCDs shine. You must calibrate such devices for movie watching. People tend to choose a more sharper, enhanced contrast and digital look by mistake while watching movies at home. My suggestion to all such people is if you have invested in a good display take some time to calibrate it for movie and make a preset. Your viewing experience will change manifold.
One big example of filmic and nofilmic or Digital video is the extras you see in BDs. The extras are shot with SD/HD Video cameras and are not processed in the same way as a movie is processed, they appears very different from what you see in film and they are not filmic. Next time while watching it you will see what I mean. A film is meant to be seen as a film as not a TV or video broadcast.

Contrast boost is the biggest enemy of a filmic image it ruins the atmosphere the director intended. Other important factors that impacts the filmic look are skin tones, saturation and color temp.

To create the best original source there is a process to convert it to DPX files and that must be followed strictly by Studios. Authoring houses normally do not have control on source. It is very important to get the source right and then do the BD.

Hope this helps and I was able to answer your questions. Sorry about the long post. I am just too passionate about films and how they are treated in BD.

Last night I watched two Hollywood movies - Ghost by Polanski and The Girl with the Dragon tattoo. See these films to understand what makes them filmic in their won rights and as per director's vision. You won't see any issues we discuss with most bollywood BDs.

One more thing, color in films are not meant to look like what you see in real. Colors and skin tones are a reflection of the directors vision and the environment created within the movie. The word natural skintone is always against the intended look of the film and not how a person looks in real. And I am sure Aditya Chopra didn't intend to show male leads with lipsticks and reddish faces and incorrect colors.... They got it wrong somewhere in the DPX converison or while authoring. Please note film stock suffers discoloration as well over time.

Cheers

Ani
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Last edited by anibap; 11-11-2010 at 12:44 PM.
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Old 02-19-2011, 01:41 AM   #33
MARXTHEDUDE MARXTHEDUDE is offline
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Fantastic thread and thanks especialy to our own Raj Aryan of it Mr. Anurag1700

I'm a huge fan of "Mohabbatein", many decry it's melodrama and lack of reality but this is what Bollywood is all about. Like the golden age of musicals, most Bollywood is about entertaining with spectacle and grand theatrics and that's why it's such a welcome break from Hollywood who rarely do these films anymore.
It was never suppossed to be high concept. Those seeking that in Indian cinema have the likes of "Swades" and "Zubeidaa" for that.

Having shown this film in cinemas I can confirm most of what is said about the original look of the film is true. Like most Bollywood's from that era it is technically lacking and drops focus on some shots.

One thing I remember is that if you isolated the center channel on the projecion monitor you could literally hear Lata Mangeshkar take a huge breath before she begins singing the reprise before the intermission! I wonder if that survived the blu ray remix.

One things for sure, after Anurag1700's review considered it ordered. That and HD SHamita Shetty... <3 <3
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Old 02-21-2012, 08:03 AM   #34
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Guys, you strongly reccomend this title on BD?
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Old 02-21-2012, 02:03 PM   #35
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Yes, I bought it last week and it's amazing, one of my favourite films. The story is everlasting and great performances from Amitabh and Shahrukh and the then newcomers. A real visual treat, go for it
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Old 02-21-2012, 03:34 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shihaj View Post
Guys, you strongly reccomend this title on BD?
Had i not clicked on ur collection, u wud hav got a proper logical response from me for this question keeping in mind different tastes of different people... but...

really ?? someone owning ddlj and rnbdj shdnt be asking this. its the only other film directed by aditya chopra yet...so in that sense, just go for it and complete your collection of the trilogy
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Old 02-21-2012, 03:55 PM   #37
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For Aditya Chopra fans, this is a must have item for the trilogy

@Anurag, guess what ? I am borrowing this BD again to keep a promise I made to my mother that I will show this to her on my big screen. I will book an opera or orchestra performance on the same day....
Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.- Martin Luther King, Jr.
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Old 02-21-2012, 04:15 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anibap View Post
@Anurag, guess what ? I am borrowing this BD again to keep a promise I made to my mother that I will show this to her on my big screen.
LOL, that's such a Bollywood sentiment "Aaj main apni maa ko kiya hua vaada poora karoonga"
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Old 02-21-2012, 04:18 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ravenus View Post
LOL, that's such a Bollywood sentiment "Aaj main apni maa ko kiya hua vaada poora karoonga"
Hahahaha....after resisting for 2 months since my parents are in London, I am left with no choice....
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Old 02-22-2012, 01:45 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anibap View Post
@Anurag, guess what ? I am borrowing this BD again to keep a promise I made to my mother that I will show this to her on my big screen. I will book an opera or orchestra performance on the same day....
LOLz !!!! Good going.

Btw, even I myself wud love to watch it on your screen anyday because though its my ultimate dream, I dont think with my current financial situation i wud ever be able to buy even a minimum decent stuff in my lifetime that the people on this forum have for an HT. Wish you were somewhere in India
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