Dances with Wolves - January 11th

[Majestyk]

I ended up buying the UK version as I don't like the extended.

A good example of how it just doesn't flow is near the beginning when Lt. Dunbar is at Fort Hayes. Major Fambrough's sudden suicide was one of my favourite scenes in the movie. His psychotic behaviour is very subtle and the viewer doesn't know he's so far off the edge until he shoots himself. But in the extended there are added scenes where Fambrough is ranting and raving like a lunatic, which diminishes the effectiveness of his suicide. Then there's the added scenes of the crowd gathering and looking in the window and showing the Major. Again, it just doesn't work like it does in the theatrical, where cutting to the next scene (with Dunbar), after his suicide, is much more dramatic.

[the sordid sentinel]

Originally Posted by Majestyk

I ended up buying the UK version as I don't like the extended.

A good example of how it just doesn't flow is near the beginning when Lt. Dunbar is at Fort Hayes. Major Fambrough's sudden suicide was one of my favourite scenes in the movie. His psychotic behaviour is very subtle and the viewer doesn't know he's so far off the edge until he shoots himself. But in the extended there are added scenes where Fambrough is ranting and raving like a lunatic, which diminishes the effectiveness of his suicide. Then there's the added scenes of the crowd gathering and looking in the window and showing the Major. Again, it just doesn't work like it does in the theatrical, where cutting to the next scene (with Dunbar), after his suicide, is much more dramatic.

I tend to agree there, but that extended stuff also provides a little insight into the Lt. Elgin character. I always see him and Dunbar as kindred spirits..if Elgin went to the fort alone he probably would have followed Dunbar's path. It adds a little weight to the scene at the end when Dunbar won't allow Wind in his Hair to scalp Elgin IMO.

Finally had the time to watch this last night and was very impressed. It's LONG, but I was never bored. The scenes inside Kicking Bird's teepee really stood out. Lots of design and background color I never noticed. Overall the A/V quality is very good (the daylight scenes really pop) in addition to the excellent movie itself. $11 very well spent..couldn't be happier with this title.

[aggienader08]

Originally Posted by Yeha-Noha

Although I don't prefer one over the other from an entertainment point of view, and you are correct on that point, I do prefer Avatar from the stance that it has a message to give the viewer. It certainly isn't the same message you got: An outsider who makes his way into a tribe of contrasting ethnic/cultural practices, falls in love, learns the ways of the tribe, and fights to defend it against his own kind. Thus, we have Dances with Wolves, and last and certainly least Avatar. If that's all you get out of it, then I see why you only pointed out those familiar cliches not digging any deeper than that. I don't deny that it has its share of cliches from stories like Pocahontas and others.

I don't have to cope with anything other than defending myself from anyone attempting to demean what I hold to be dear and true stemming from my way of life and upbringing. I have been taught from childhood by stories handed down by my ancestors that have been told and retold eons before the Europeans ever made landfall on North America. I naturally latch on to the deeper wisdom found in such stories even if they appear on the surface to be similar in many ways. Of course Avatar isn't one of them, but buried under those cliches, that you were so eager to point out to me, there are messages of deeper wisdom contained within.

I'm certainly not trying to demean you. I'm just trying to point out to you that Avatar isn't as original as you think. It borrows heavily from DwW and that is a fact. That's all.

[Treadwell]

Originally Posted by Majestyk

I ended up buying the UK version as I don't like the extended.

A good example of how it just doesn't flow is near the beginning when Lt. Dunbar is at Fort Hayes. Major Fambrough's sudden suicide was one of my favourite scenes in the movie. His psychotic behaviour is very subtle and the viewer doesn't know he's so far off the edge until he shoots himself. But in the extended there are added scenes where Fambrough is ranting and raving like a lunatic, which diminishes the effectiveness of his suicide. Then there's the added scenes of the crowd gathering and looking in the window and showing the Major. Again, it just doesn't work like it does in the theatrical, where cutting to the next scene (with Dunbar), after his suicide, is much more dramatic.

I like the extended version overall, but I completely agree with you concerning this scene. It is way too bloated. It just goes on and on, and then we we think we've finally gone back to the theatrical cut, when Dunbar turns around, they take us back there AGAIN, with people looking through the window and whatnot. It's like it's a first assembly of everything shot.

[Yeha-Noha]

Originally Posted by aggienader08

I'm certainly not trying to demean you. I'm just trying to point out to you that Avatar isn't as original as you think. It borrows heavily from DwW and that is a fact. That's all.

I have been aware of those cliches. Whether Avatar draws on DWW, Pocahontas, The New World, or other movies is beside the point. The point is that Avatar goes beyond DWW's having a different message to give. Some people like to take things for face value and miss out on the hidden nuggets. I could careless that it draws on DWW or not. DWW is a real cute and funny story but it's only Avatar is form not substance.

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by Treadwell

I like the extended version overall, but I completely agree with you concerning this scene. It is way too bloated. It just goes on and on, and then we we think we've finally gone back to the theatrical cut, when Dunbar turns around, they take us back there AGAIN, with people looking through the window and whatnot. It's like it's a first assembly of everything shot.

I agree.

I always see him and Dunbar as kindred spirits..if Elgin went to the fort alone he probably would have followed Dunbar's path.

Personally, I think Elgin is there for balance, as the US Soldiers at the end of the film are portrayed in the most despicable light possible (Spivey wiping his ass with Dunbar's drawings, killing the horse, etc.)

Not exactly shining pillars of restraint. I think Elgin is there to keep historians and audiences from howling over the portrayal of the union soldiers (though I have little doubt humans did far worse). Politics, politics, politics, right?

[Darth Anakin]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

I agree.



Personally, I think Elgin is there for balance, as the US Soldiers at the end of the film are portrayed in the most despicable light possible (Spivey wiping his ass with Dunbar's drawings, killing the horse, etc.)

Not exactly shining pillars of restraint. I think Elgin is there to keep historians and audiences from howling over the portrayal of the union soldiers (though I have little doubt humans did far worse). Politics, politics, politics, right?

Another way in which DwW and Avatar are similar, pretty much all the soldiers in both movies are bad people or at least painted that way. I guess you could kind of see Elgin as the Michelle Rodriguez of DwW, just a lot less aggressive.

[kith]

Can anyone confirm or tell me about this release about is that any english subtitles on the bonus feature coz i prefer subtitles on it thx

[Wings80]

Originally Posted by Majestyk

I ended up buying the UK version as I don't like the extended.

A good example of how it just doesn't flow is near the beginning when Lt. Dunbar is at Fort Hayes. Major Fambrough's sudden suicide was one of my favourite scenes in the movie. His psychotic behaviour is very subtle and the viewer doesn't know he's so far off the edge until he shoots himself. But in the extended there are added scenes where Fambrough is ranting and raving like a lunatic, which diminishes the effectiveness of his suicide. Then there's the added scenes of the crowd gathering and looking in the window and showing the Major. Again, it just doesn't work like it does in the theatrical, where cutting to the next scene (with Dunbar), after his suicide, is much more dramatic.

I agree 100%.

[SonOfArathorn]

Just got this today and have never seen the extended cut, actually haven't seen the theatrical cut in over ten years either, very excited to watch. I hope it looks and sounds as good as can be.

[Wings80]

Originally Posted by SonOfArathorn

I hope it looks and sounds as good as can be.

I think it does.

[kcuber]

Wow, did they do this blu ray nice. The PQ and AQ of this film is top-notch without a doubt. The menu is perfect. The film starts up where you left off after restarting the player. Awesome!

[KulasDevorn]

Originally Posted by wormraper

Directors cuts I would agree with. but extended cuts??? those are usually studio done garbage (like this one) where they add in a ton of crap that was CUT OUT FOR A REASON just to add an "unrated" rating or lure someone in with "oooooooo, it's longer!!!!". Look at the "A-team" movie. the extended cut is AWEFUL. just plain bad in comparison to the theatrical cut. this is especially true for comedies where the flow needs to go just right and any added scene can disrupt the humor (ala Dumb and Dumber)

I disagree and prefer extended/directors cuts 90% of the time. Like I said, if there is an extended/directors cut I will only watch that version of the movie and have no use for the theatrical version. I won't even buy it unless it has both versions or is the extended/directors cut. It is very rare I would say I prefer the theatrical cut than extended/directors cut. That being said, the Original Star Wars Trilogy is one I actually prefer in Original Theatrical form rather than the constant tinkering Lucas does ever few years because he is bored and acts like he is poor.

As for Dances with Wolves, this is a movie I wont even bother watching the theatrical cut on. Unless it is the extended version, I wont buy or watch it.

PS: For the people debating Avatar, I can never watch the entire movie (extended cut) in one setting strangely enough. I get bored and that NEVER happens in a movie for me. I like the message of the movie, but I think it is just a demo for CG in the end. I wont watch 3D, 3D is a worthless gimmick and can cause nausea, headaches, and eye trouble. I wont even bother with it, I have ZERO interest in ANYTHING 3D.

I am still unable to find the new Blu Ray in ANY store for some reason. I find it odd. I will have to get it off Amazon I guess.

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by KulasDevorn

I disagree and prefer extended/directors cuts 90% of the time. Like I said, if there is an extended/directors cut I will only watch that version of the movie and have no use for the theatrical version. I won't even buy it unless it has both versions or is the extended/directors cut. It is very rare I would say I prefer the theatrical cut than extended/directors cut.

Wow, so if the producer of a movie or studio puts together an extended cut of a film without the involvement of a film's director, you don't have any problem with that? You just go along with whatever cut is the longest?

[Bruce Morrison]

Originally Posted by kyleoz

I am having an issue with the Special Features disc.

Some of the features are only appearing in a small portion (top left) of the screen, most notably the Creation of an Epic doc, and the TV spots. The other featurettes take up the whole screen.

Not sure if this is a problem with the disc itself or my blu ray player. It's a Samsung, and the firmware is up to date.

Anyone else encountered this issue? Thinking about exchanging it and seeing if it's just a faulty disc.

Thanks!

I've had exactly the same problem with the Special Features disc. My player is the Panasonic BD50.

If the problem happens with players from two different manufacturers, that suggests to me that it's an encoding error on the disc. Has anyone else had this problem?

Update on January 29th: I've updated the BD50 firmware and this has solved the problem. I've PM'd Kyleoz to let him know that it's potentially solvable via firmware if Samsung can just get on the case.

[aox]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

Here's that link again, since you asked.

Excerpt from EW:

"Kevin Costner has done his share of audio commentaries, but he won't be blamed for excesses that might've attended video releases of some of his movies.

''I didn't work on the long version of Dances With Wolves,'' he points out.

He's all for deleted scenes -- as extras, not as grist for protracted ''directors' cuts.''

''I release the versions I want. They are long, so I don't need for 'em to be any longer.''

Finally, a filmmaker who doesn't see the (re-)editing room as open range.

-- Entertainment Weekly
http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,578506,00.html

it's weird then that he allowed his name to this note:



I am not saying this disproves your point of course (the last paragraph seems to just want the fans the 'opportunity' to see these scenes), or even Costner's, but there are elements of this note in the 2003 DVD that one can use to support or deny that Costner intended the 4 hour cut originally, or that he was involved with this ABC cut. He sort of looks wishy washy or a liar now considering the interview.

[crs]

Originally Posted by aox

it's weird then that he allowed his name to this note:

That note was from the other Kevin Costner.

[DRS]

At Wal-Mart earlier I saw the 20th anniversary edition of the DVD and it was the theatrical cut. It was only $10.

I bought it and decided to put it in the blu-ray case and make it a 3 disc set, 2 Blu + 1DVD. It ain't perfect, but its the most affordable compromise atm.

Btw, how stupid is that? The 20th anniversary blu-ray is Extended only, and the 20th anniversary dvd is theatrical cut only...

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by aox

it's weird then that he allowed his name to this note:



I am not saying this disproves your point of course (the last paragraph seems to just want the fans the 'opportunity' to see these scenes), or even Costner's, but there are elements of this note in the 2003 DVD that one can use to support or deny that Costner intended the 4 hour cut originally, or that he was involved with this ABC cut. He sort of looks wishy washy or a liar now considering the interview.

Jim Wilson gotta eat.

Seriously, though - It's the exact same note - not "elements" of the note. Its the exact same verbage from the old DVD. Note the language stating the ABC miniseries version does not replace the existing cut...the ABC miniseries version is simply an alternative longer version for people who want to see all those deleted scenes. I think Costner told EW the truth, and with that forward for the DVD that he signed, he protected his version of the film with that "this does not replace" language. At any rate, I'd be surprised if either Wilson or Costner actually wrote that text, as opposed to someone in their respective PR departments. Frankly, I bet Costner himself would be surprised by all the fuss we're making about this.

[Darth Anakin]

My UK cut of this finally arrived so I will be watching it tomorrow after I get up since I'm going to bed soon.