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Old 03-07-2011, 07:43 PM   #1
Ernest Rister Ernest Rister is offline
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Default The UNCUT BLACK CAULDRON Exists!

http://michaelperaza.blogspot.com/20...os-part-3.html

THE BLACK CAULDRON was stripped of 12 minutes of finished animation -- animation that had already been scored and completed. In an effort to "relieve the darkness" from the film, newly hired executive Jeffrey Katzenberg cut moments from the film already scored by Elmer Bernstein. Chief among these edits were the removal of moments of violence and horror as the Balck Cauldron raised an army of the dead, who in turn killed all in their path.

Former Disney animator Michael Peraza states on his blog that not only has a black-and-white work in progress version of The Black Cauldron, he states the actual original negative is indeed the uncut version of the film, which then-newly-hired Jeffrey Katzenberg cut by 12 minutes.

Mr. Peraza writes:

"When Katzenberg first screened the film (Cauldron) he told us to cut it by 10 minutes. Roy Disney and I got together and found some scenes we could get rid of that didn't affect the story that much." When they ran it agin for Jeffrey and the film finished he asked Roy, "Is that 10 minutes?" When Roy replied that no it was only around 6 minutes. Jeffrey stated, "I said 10 minutes!" Joe [Hale] continued, "Eventually he (Jeffrey) cut out about 12 minutes which really hurt the picture. "

[snip]

"I talked with Roy E. Disney about restoring the cuts when I learned that it would be put on VCR tape. As I am sure that you know, the original version would be on the master negative, as the master negative is never cut. It's the "inner negative" that is cut. So all that is needed, would be to to make another "inner negative" from the master and all the cuts would be restored. Roy did not want to go to that expense for the release of the tape."

So, it is possible that one day, the uncut, darker, and more graphic version of the film may be seen. It exists. Here's hoping Disney restores this film for the future, inevitable Blu-Ray release.

Last edited by Ernest Rister; 03-07-2011 at 11:53 PM.
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Old 03-07-2011, 07:46 PM   #2
STARSCREAM STARSCREAM is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernest Rister View Post
http://michaelperaza.blogspot.com/20...os-part-3.html

Former Disney animator Michael Peraza states on his blog that not only has a black-and-white work in progress version of The Black Cauldron, he states the actual original negative is indeed the uncut version of the film, which then-newly-hired Jeffrey Katzenberg cut by 12 minutes.

Mr. Peraza writes:

"When Katzenberg first screened the film (Cauldron) he told us to cut it by 10 minutes. Roy Disney and I got together and found some scenes we could get rid of that didn't affect the story that much." When they ran it agin for Jeffrey and the film finished he asked Roy, "Is that 10 minutes?" When Roy replied that no it was only around 6 minutes. Jeffrey stated, "I said 10 minutes!" Joe [Hale] continued, "Eventually he (Jeffrey) cut out about 12 minutes which really hurt the picture. "

[snip]

"I talked with Roy E. Disney about restoring the cuts when I learned that it would be put on VCR tape. As I am sure that you know, the original version would be on the master negative, as the master negative is never cut. It's the "inner negative" that is cut. So all that is needed, would be to to make another "inner negative" from the master and all the cuts would be restored. Roy did not want to go to that expense for the release of the tape."

So, it is possible that one day, the uncut, darker, and more graphic version of the film may be seen. It exists. Here's hoping Disney restores this film for the future, inevitable Blu-Ray release.
. Great news! I hope they do release this sometime, I think it is a very highly underrated movie.
You wouldn't like me when I'm angry
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Old 03-07-2011, 08:04 PM   #3
Ernest Rister Ernest Rister is offline
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Good or bad, I'd prefer that the artists' vision of the film be made available alongside the cut theatrical release. Should be a relatively simple matter for seamless branching to include the missing 12 minutes. I understand Lowry recently restored the film - the DVD struck from their work repeats the Katzenberg cuts. Howver, if (and that's a big if, I guess) IF they returned to the original negative, then they have to have scanned in the full uncut version, no?

Is an uncut 4k scan of The Black Cauldron sitting on someone's hard drive in Burbank right now?

Release it, Disney! We can handle it.
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Old 03-07-2011, 08:06 PM   #4
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The Black Cauldron is amongst my favorite animated Disney films. Not only is it vastly underrated, but it also has some of the most beautiful, detailed animation since Sleeping Beauty. It would be awesome if they restored the cut footage for the eventual blu-ray.
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Old 03-07-2011, 08:18 PM   #5
Ernest Rister Ernest Rister is offline
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Originally Posted by Drewza89 View Post
The Black Cauldron is amongst my favorite animated Disney films. Not only is it vastly underrated, but it also has some of the most beautiful, detailed animation since Sleeping Beauty. It would be awesome if they restored the cut footage for the eventual blu-ray.
I had high hopes for Cauldron as a 14 year old, reading all the articles in Starlog and what not. Then Ebert gave it three-and-a-half stars and some other critics leant support, and I got very excited. Bought the 45rpm book and record, bought the soundtrack, bought the story record (actually it was a cassette, but it had original audio), bought the CD, bought the Sierra videogame for the PCjr ... I wasn't knocked out by the movie, it was one of those cases where you really, really want to like something, but the film has serious problems in story construction, pacing, and animation.

Now, I've spoken to Disney artists who have seen the uncut version, and say the missing footage is really no big deal, so all of us hoping that the 12 minutes would suddenly turn Cauldron into a unfairly butchered masterpiece should cool those jets. Still, Katzenberg said he made the cuts to lessen the darkness and violence of the film, and if anything, the film could use some darkness and violence, as the decomposing army brought to life by the Cauldron-Born represents the threat of the Cauldron, and if you cut the skeletons and what they do, then you've weakened the stakes of the film.
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Old 03-07-2011, 08:35 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernest Rister View Post
Now, I've spoken to Disney artists who have seen the uncut version, and say the missing footage is really no big deal, so all of us hoping that the 12 minutes would suddenly turn Cauldron into a unfairly butchered masterpiece should cool those jets.
As Gene Siskel once reportedly said about the "missing" reel of a 90's Disney comedy screening, "If it'd been the lost reel of the Magnificent Ambersons, (the movie) would still suck."

Quote:
I had high hopes for Cauldron as a 14 year old, reading all the articles in Starlog and what not.
I wasn't knocked out by the movie, it was one of those cases where you really, really want to like something, but the film has serious problems in story construction, pacing, and animation.
I remember reading the book series as a kid, and feeling, well....unfulfilled by the "Princess/Frog"-like aimlessness of the movie's storyline, the autopiloted Miller-era dumbing-down of the story, and none of the characters seeming like instantly marketable icons--
I asked another book-fan friend if they'd seen it, who put both our opinions into clarity: "What a titanic waste of TIME! "

(It'd been only later that I'd found out the movie had been from the Swan Princess director, who would be the Name To Our Pain for most cartoon fans of the rest of the 90's...)
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Old 03-07-2011, 08:39 PM   #7
Ernest Rister Ernest Rister is offline
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Originally Posted by EricJ View Post
As Gene Siskel once reportedly said about the "missing" reel of a 90's Disney comedy screening, "If it'd been the lost reel of the Magnificent Ambersons, (the movie) would still suck."



I remember reading the book series as a kid, and feeling, well....unfulfilled by the "Princess/Frog"-like aimlessness of the movie's storyline, the autopiloted Miller-era dumbing-down of the story, and none of the characters seeming like instantly marketable icons--
I asked another book-fan friend if they'd seen it, who put both our opinions into clarity: "What a titanic waste of TIME! "
I read the series after seeing the film. Author Lloyd Alexander said he was pleased with the film version of Cauldron, and added that he hoped it would sell more of his books.
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Old 03-07-2011, 11:50 PM   #8
Ernest Rister Ernest Rister is offline
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Bumping for the evening crowd
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Old 03-08-2011, 12:07 AM   #9
Safari-1969 Safari-1969 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernest Rister View Post
http://michaelperaza.blogspot.com/20...os-part-3.html

THE BLACK CAULDRON was stripped of 12 minutes of finished animation -- animation that had already been scored and completed. In an effort to "relieve the darkness" from the film, newly hired executive Jeffrey Katzenberg cut moments from the film already scored by Elmer Bernstein. Chief among these edits were the removal of moments of violence and horror as the Balck Cauldron raised an army of the dead, who in turn killed all in their path.

Former Disney animator Michael Peraza states on his blog that not only has a black-and-white work in progress version of The Black Cauldron, he states the actual original negative is indeed the uncut version of the film, which then-newly-hired Jeffrey Katzenberg cut by 12 minutes.

Mr. Peraza writes:

"When Katzenberg first screened the film (Cauldron) he told us to cut it by 10 minutes. Roy Disney and I got together and found some scenes we could get rid of that didn't affect the story that much." When they ran it agin for Jeffrey and the film finished he asked Roy, "Is that 10 minutes?" When Roy replied that no it was only around 6 minutes. Jeffrey stated, "I said 10 minutes!" Joe [Hale] continued, "Eventually he (Jeffrey) cut out about 12 minutes which really hurt the picture. "

[snip]

"I talked with Roy E. Disney about restoring the cuts when I learned that it would be put on VCR tape. As I am sure that you know, the original version would be on the master negative, as the master negative is never cut. It's the "inner negative" that is cut. So all that is needed, would be to to make another "inner negative" from the master and all the cuts would be restored. Roy did not want to go to that expense for the release of the tape."

So, it is possible that one day, the uncut, darker, and more graphic version of the film may be seen. It exists. Here's hoping Disney restores this film for the future, inevitable Blu-Ray release.
I read that article a while back, it sheds a lot of light on the issues surrounding Cauldron's production. I was hoping the previous DVD last year would include the deleted scenes (an early trailer for it said "Deleted Scenes" but instead we got just one scene) I would love to see the uncut version of "The Black Cauldron", even if the cuts don't really improve the muddled story. Not sure if Disney would ever release the uncut version when the film hits Blu-ray. I hope they do, though.

Last edited by Safari-1969; 03-08-2011 at 12:15 AM.
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Old 03-08-2011, 12:34 AM   #10
EricJ EricJ is offline
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Originally Posted by Ernest Rister View Post
I read the series after seeing the film. Author Lloyd Alexander said he was pleased with the film version of Cauldron, and added that he hoped it would sell more of his books.
Actually, I'd written to him, and he'd said it was....okay, good enough for an afternoon with his grandkids, but he'd rather have seen it in live-action.
(Sort of "Too tactful to comment, and better to write off to experience than bite the hand. ")
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Old 03-08-2011, 01:53 AM   #11
Ernest Rister Ernest Rister is offline
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Originally Posted by EricJ View Post
Actually, I'd written to him, and he'd said it was....okay, good enough for an afternoon with his grandkids, but he'd rather have seen it in live-action.
(Sort of "Too tactful to comment, and better to write off to experience than bite the hand. ")
So, you're saying he's a liar. Or maybe you are. Either way, one of you isn't telling the truth.

from the CHICAGO TRIBUNE...

The Black Cauldron does have its advocates, not the least of which, surprisingly, is Lloyd Alexander, who wrote The Prydain Chronicles, the award-winning series of books upon which The Black Cauldron is based. Nothing cheers him more than the debate the film seems to inspire.

"It's much better to be passionate and controversial than apathetic," he said in a phone interview from his home in Pennsylvania. "Devoted readers (of the books) called the film a disaster, while others said that while it bears little resemblance to the books, as a movie on the screen it's great. I loved it. I absolutely adored it. I thought it was sensational."

Concluded Alexander, now 74, "I don't get a nickel out of (the video release) so I can look at this impartially. There are beautiful, magical moments...Disney did a first-rate production. I hope it becomes popular. It deserves to be. For my sneaky self-interest, maybe it will inspire people to want to read the books."

Last edited by Ernest Rister; 03-08-2011 at 02:09 AM.
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Old 03-08-2011, 03:16 AM   #12
Ernest Rister Ernest Rister is offline
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That being said - I'd love to see the uncut CAULDRON - finally.

Last edited by Ernest Rister; 03-08-2011 at 03:19 AM.
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