Best Blu-ray Deals

Best Blu-ray Deals, From $3.99 »
Top deals | Price drops  
 All countries United States United Kingdom Canada Germany France Spain Italy Japan
Person of Interest: The Complete Third Season (Blu-ray)
$14.99
5 hrs ago
Star Trek: The Next Generation, Season 6 (Blu-ray)
$31.99
 
X-Men: Days of Future Past (Blu-ray)
$9.99
13 hrs ago
Downton Abbey: Seasons 1, 2, 3 & 4 (Blu-ray)
$39.99
22 hrs ago
Breaking Bad: The Complete Series (Blu-ray)
$149.99
13 hrs ago
The Newsroom: The Complete Second Season (Blu-ray)
$22.99
13 hrs ago
Rain Man (Blu-ray)
$3.99
7 hrs ago
The Walking Dead: The Complete Third Season (Blu-ray)
$14.99
13 hrs ago
Lone Survivor (Blu-ray)
$7.99
20 hrs ago
Band of Brothers (Blu-ray)
$22.99
13 hrs ago
Star Trek: The Next Generation, Season 1 (Blu-ray)
$19.99
22 hrs ago
Star Trek: The Next Generation, Season 2 (Blu-ray)
$31.99
22 hrs ago

Go Back   Blu-ray Forum > Movies > Movies

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-07-2011, 08:43 PM   #1
Ernest Rister Ernest Rister is offline
Blu-ray Knight
 
Ernest Rister's Avatar
 
Jan 2008
1
Default The UNCUT BLACK CAULDRON Exists!

http://michaelperaza.blogspot.com/20...os-part-3.html

THE BLACK CAULDRON was stripped of 12 minutes of finished animation -- animation that had already been scored and completed. In an effort to "relieve the darkness" from the film, newly hired executive Jeffrey Katzenberg cut moments from the film already scored by Elmer Bernstein. Chief among these edits were the removal of moments of violence and horror as the Balck Cauldron raised an army of the dead, who in turn killed all in their path.

Former Disney animator Michael Peraza states on his blog that not only does he have a black-and-white work in progress version of The Black Cauldron, he states the actual original negative is indeed the uncut version of the film, which then-newly-hired Jeffrey Katzenberg cut by 12 minutes.

Mr. Peraza writes:

"When Katzenberg first screened the film (Cauldron) he told us to cut it by 10 minutes. Roy Disney and I got together and found some scenes we could get rid of that didn't affect the story that much." When they ran it agin for Jeffrey and the film finished he asked Roy, "Is that 10 minutes?" When Roy replied that no it was only around 6 minutes. Jeffrey stated, "I said 10 minutes!" Joe [Hale] continued, "Eventually he (Jeffrey) cut out about 12 minutes which really hurt the picture. "

[snip]

"I talked with Roy E. Disney about restoring the cuts when I learned that it would be put on VCR tape. As I am sure that you know, the original version would be on the master negative, as the master negative is never cut. It's the "inner negative" that is cut. So all that is needed, would be to to make another "inner negative" from the master and all the cuts would be restored. Roy did not want to go to that expense for the release of the tape."

So, it is possible that one day, the uncut, darker, and more graphic version of the film may be seen. It exists. Here's hoping Disney restores this film for the future, inevitable Blu-Ray release.

Last edited by Ernest Rister; 08-02-2014 at 02:56 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2011, 08:46 PM   #2
STARSCREAM STARSCREAM is offline
Blu-ray Ninja
 
STARSCREAM's Avatar
 
Feb 2008
Dagobah
148
29
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernest Rister View Post
http://michaelperaza.blogspot.com/20...os-part-3.html

Former Disney animator Michael Peraza states on his blog that not only has a black-and-white work in progress version of The Black Cauldron, he states the actual original negative is indeed the uncut version of the film, which then-newly-hired Jeffrey Katzenberg cut by 12 minutes.

Mr. Peraza writes:

"When Katzenberg first screened the film (Cauldron) he told us to cut it by 10 minutes. Roy Disney and I got together and found some scenes we could get rid of that didn't affect the story that much." When they ran it agin for Jeffrey and the film finished he asked Roy, "Is that 10 minutes?" When Roy replied that no it was only around 6 minutes. Jeffrey stated, "I said 10 minutes!" Joe [Hale] continued, "Eventually he (Jeffrey) cut out about 12 minutes which really hurt the picture. "

[snip]

"I talked with Roy E. Disney about restoring the cuts when I learned that it would be put on VCR tape. As I am sure that you know, the original version would be on the master negative, as the master negative is never cut. It's the "inner negative" that is cut. So all that is needed, would be to to make another "inner negative" from the master and all the cuts would be restored. Roy did not want to go to that expense for the release of the tape."

So, it is possible that one day, the uncut, darker, and more graphic version of the film may be seen. It exists. Here's hoping Disney restores this film for the future, inevitable Blu-Ray release.
. Great news! I hope they do release this sometime, I think it is a very highly underrated movie.
You wouldn't like me when I'm angry
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2011, 09:04 PM   #3
Ernest Rister Ernest Rister is offline
Blu-ray Knight
 
Ernest Rister's Avatar
 
Jan 2008
1
Default

Good or bad, I'd prefer that the artists' vision of the film be made available alongside the cut theatrical release. Should be a relatively simple matter for seamless branching to include the missing 12 minutes. I understand Lowry recently restored the film - the DVD struck from their work repeats the Katzenberg cuts. Howver, if (and that's a big if, I guess) IF they returned to the original negative, then they have to have scanned in the full uncut version, no?

Is an uncut 4k scan of The Black Cauldron sitting on someone's hard drive in Burbank right now?

Release it, Disney! We can handle it.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2011, 09:06 PM   #4
Drewza89 Drewza89 is offline
Special Member
 
Aug 2007
USA
-
-
3
Default

The Black Cauldron is amongst my favorite animated Disney films. Not only is it vastly underrated, but it also has some of the most beautiful, detailed animation since Sleeping Beauty. It would be awesome if they restored the cut footage for the eventual blu-ray.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2011, 09:18 PM   #5
Ernest Rister Ernest Rister is offline
Blu-ray Knight
 
Ernest Rister's Avatar
 
Jan 2008
1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drewza89 View Post
The Black Cauldron is amongst my favorite animated Disney films. Not only is it vastly underrated, but it also has some of the most beautiful, detailed animation since Sleeping Beauty. It would be awesome if they restored the cut footage for the eventual blu-ray.
I had high hopes for Cauldron as a 14 year old, reading all the articles in Starlog and what not. Then Ebert gave it three-and-a-half stars and some other critics leant support, and I got very excited. Bought the 45rpm book and record, bought the soundtrack, bought the story record (actually it was a cassette, but it had original audio), bought the CD, bought the Sierra videogame for the PCjr ... I wasn't knocked out by the movie, it was one of those cases where you really, really want to like something, but the film has serious problems in story construction, pacing, and animation.

Now, I've spoken to Disney artists who have seen the uncut version, and say the missing footage is really no big deal, so all of us hoping that the 12 minutes would suddenly turn Cauldron into a unfairly butchered masterpiece should cool those jets. Still, Katzenberg said he made the cuts to lessen the darkness and violence of the film, and if anything, the film could use some darkness and violence, as the decomposing army brought to life by the Cauldron-Born represents the threat of the Cauldron, and if you cut the skeletons and what they do, then you've weakened the stakes of the film.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2011, 09:35 PM   #6
EricJ EricJ is offline
Suspended
 
Jul 2007
The Paradise of New England
6
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernest Rister View Post
Now, I've spoken to Disney artists who have seen the uncut version, and say the missing footage is really no big deal, so all of us hoping that the 12 minutes would suddenly turn Cauldron into a unfairly butchered masterpiece should cool those jets.
As Gene Siskel once reportedly said about the "missing" reel of a 90's Disney comedy screening, "If it'd been the lost reel of the Magnificent Ambersons, (the movie) would still suck."

Quote:
I had high hopes for Cauldron as a 14 year old, reading all the articles in Starlog and what not.
I wasn't knocked out by the movie, it was one of those cases where you really, really want to like something, but the film has serious problems in story construction, pacing, and animation.
I remember reading the book series as a kid, and feeling, well....unfulfilled by the "Princess/Frog"-like aimlessness of the movie's storyline, the autopiloted Miller-era dumbing-down of the story, and none of the characters seeming like instantly marketable icons--
I asked another book-fan friend if they'd seen it, who put both our opinions into clarity: "What a titanic waste of TIME! "

(It'd been only later that I'd found out the movie had been from the Swan Princess director, who would be the Name To Our Pain for most cartoon fans of the rest of the 90's...)
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2011, 09:39 PM   #7
Ernest Rister Ernest Rister is offline
Blu-ray Knight
 
Ernest Rister's Avatar
 
Jan 2008
1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by EricJ View Post
As Gene Siskel once reportedly said about the "missing" reel of a 90's Disney comedy screening, "If it'd been the lost reel of the Magnificent Ambersons, (the movie) would still suck."



I remember reading the book series as a kid, and feeling, well....unfulfilled by the "Princess/Frog"-like aimlessness of the movie's storyline, the autopiloted Miller-era dumbing-down of the story, and none of the characters seeming like instantly marketable icons--
I asked another book-fan friend if they'd seen it, who put both our opinions into clarity: "What a titanic waste of TIME! "
I read the series after seeing the film. Author Lloyd Alexander said he was pleased with the film version of Cauldron, and added that he hoped it would sell more of his books.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2011, 12:50 AM   #8
Ernest Rister Ernest Rister is offline
Blu-ray Knight
 
Ernest Rister's Avatar
 
Jan 2008
1
Default

Bumping for the evening crowd
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2011, 01:07 AM   #9
Safari-1969 Safari-1969 is offline
Active Member
 
Safari-1969's Avatar
 
Nov 2010
Connecticut
176
4
Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernest Rister View Post
http://michaelperaza.blogspot.com/20...os-part-3.html

THE BLACK CAULDRON was stripped of 12 minutes of finished animation -- animation that had already been scored and completed. In an effort to "relieve the darkness" from the film, newly hired executive Jeffrey Katzenberg cut moments from the film already scored by Elmer Bernstein. Chief among these edits were the removal of moments of violence and horror as the Balck Cauldron raised an army of the dead, who in turn killed all in their path.

Former Disney animator Michael Peraza states on his blog that not only has a black-and-white work in progress version of The Black Cauldron, he states the actual original negative is indeed the uncut version of the film, which then-newly-hired Jeffrey Katzenberg cut by 12 minutes.

Mr. Peraza writes:

"When Katzenberg first screened the film (Cauldron) he told us to cut it by 10 minutes. Roy Disney and I got together and found some scenes we could get rid of that didn't affect the story that much." When they ran it agin for Jeffrey and the film finished he asked Roy, "Is that 10 minutes?" When Roy replied that no it was only around 6 minutes. Jeffrey stated, "I said 10 minutes!" Joe [Hale] continued, "Eventually he (Jeffrey) cut out about 12 minutes which really hurt the picture. "

[snip]

"I talked with Roy E. Disney about restoring the cuts when I learned that it would be put on VCR tape. As I am sure that you know, the original version would be on the master negative, as the master negative is never cut. It's the "inner negative" that is cut. So all that is needed, would be to to make another "inner negative" from the master and all the cuts would be restored. Roy did not want to go to that expense for the release of the tape."

So, it is possible that one day, the uncut, darker, and more graphic version of the film may be seen. It exists. Here's hoping Disney restores this film for the future, inevitable Blu-Ray release.
I read that article a while back, it sheds a lot of light on the issues surrounding Cauldron's production. I was hoping the previous DVD last year would include the deleted scenes (an early trailer for it said "Deleted Scenes" but instead we got just one scene) I would love to see the uncut version of "The Black Cauldron", even if the cuts don't really improve the muddled story. Not sure if Disney would ever release the uncut version when the film hits Blu-ray. I hope they do, though.

Last edited by Safari-1969; 03-08-2011 at 01:15 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2011, 01:34 AM   #10
EricJ EricJ is offline
Suspended
 
Jul 2007
The Paradise of New England
6
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernest Rister View Post
I read the series after seeing the film. Author Lloyd Alexander said he was pleased with the film version of Cauldron, and added that he hoped it would sell more of his books.
Actually, I'd written to him, and he'd said it was....okay, good enough for an afternoon with his grandkids, but he'd rather have seen it in live-action.
(Sort of "Too tactful to comment, and better to write off to experience than bite the hand. ")
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2011, 02:53 AM   #11
Ernest Rister Ernest Rister is offline
Blu-ray Knight
 
Ernest Rister's Avatar
 
Jan 2008
1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by EricJ View Post
Actually, I'd written to him, and he'd said it was....okay, good enough for an afternoon with his grandkids, but he'd rather have seen it in live-action.
(Sort of "Too tactful to comment, and better to write off to experience than bite the hand. ")
from the CHICAGO TRIBUNE...

The Black Cauldron does have its advocates, not the least of which, surprisingly, is Lloyd Alexander, who wrote The Prydain Chronicles, the award-winning series of books upon which The Black Cauldron is based. Nothing cheers him more than the debate the film seems to inspire.

"It's much better to be passionate and controversial than apathetic," he said in a phone interview from his home in Pennsylvania. "Devoted readers (of the books) called the film a disaster, while others said that while it bears little resemblance to the books, as a movie on the screen it's great. I loved it. I absolutely adored it. I thought it was sensational."

Concluded Alexander, now 74, "I don't get a nickel out of (the video release) so I can look at this impartially. There are beautiful, magical moments...Disney did a first-rate production. I hope it becomes popular. It deserves to be. For my sneaky self-interest, maybe it will inspire people to want to read the books."

Last edited by Ernest Rister; 07-11-2014 at 01:22 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2011, 04:16 AM   #12
Ernest Rister Ernest Rister is offline
Blu-ray Knight
 
Ernest Rister's Avatar
 
Jan 2008
1
Default

That being said - I'd love to see the uncut CAULDRON - finally.

Last edited by Ernest Rister; 03-08-2011 at 04:19 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2014, 11:17 AM   #13
19MICK94 19MICK94 is offline
Junior Member
 
19MICK94's Avatar
 
Dec 2011
Christchurch, Canterbury, New Zealand
230
12
1
Default

I'd pay BIG to see this get a Blu-ray release. I wish they'd give it "Sleeping Beauty" treatment, the film was shot in 70mm, the chances of it looking anything less than great are slim - none (Unless they apply unnecessary DNR, a la "Spartacus"). And if they included both the original and uncut versions, I'd definitely have to buy it, even if I had to import it from Greenland.
"I have come her to chew bubblegum, and kick ass… and I'm all outta bubblegum!."
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2014, 12:27 PM   #14
animefan77 animefan77 is online now
Special Member
 
Aug 2009
1649
83
3
52
Default

I would LOVE to see this happen. But seeing how Disney have handled their titles (especially non-diamond releases), I seriously doubt they would go to master negative to remaster it. If they didn't think it was worth it to remaster back then, they are probably not going to do it now. They will probably just use DNR to current DVD master.

And with Disney releasing more popular and groundbreaking title like Fantasia with cut version, I doubt they care about artistic vision. They just want family friendly film that could sell it to parents. I don't see them doing more dark and violent version that could alienate those parents that even complained that Hercules was too violent.

Unless they start releasing uncensored and banned titles like Melody Times and Song of the South, I have my doubts.
I don't want to be negative since I really want this to happen, but they have really been lazy with their releases. At least in the DVD days, they have released 2 disc special editions with tons of extras. But they are now just satisfied with almost barebone releases or just transferring old DVD extras. I just don't see them doing this expensive remaster for title they consider a failure.
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2014, 12:37 PM   #15
The Fallen Deity The Fallen Deity is offline
Blu-ray Guru
 
The Fallen Deity's Avatar
 
Jul 2011
West Midlands, England
185
33
3
Default

Awesome news!

Disney definitely needs to release this.
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion.
I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tanhauser gate.
All those moments will be lost in time like tears in rain.
Time to die.
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2014, 01:19 PM   #16
Ernest Rister Ernest Rister is offline
Blu-ray Knight
 
Ernest Rister's Avatar
 
Jan 2008
1
Default

There was a brief issue of the "complete" score for The Black Cauldron by Intrada or La-La-Land...something like 3000 units released. Bernstein had completed the score BEFORE the cuts happened, so when running the score against the film, you can "hear" the cuts, most prominently during the Cauldron Born sequence.

http://store.intrada.com/s.nl/it.A/id.7514/.f?sc=7


Last edited by Ernest Rister; 07-11-2014 at 01:21 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2014, 01:35 PM   #17
klauswhereareyou klauswhereareyou is offline
Blu-ray Samurai
 
klauswhereareyou's Avatar
 
Mar 2012
215
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernest Rister View Post
http://michaelperaza.blogspot.com/20...os-part-3.html

THE BLACK CAULDRON was stripped of 12 minutes of finished animation -- animation that had already been scored and completed. In an effort to "relieve the darkness" from the film, newly hired executive Jeffrey Katzenberg cut moments from the film already scored by Elmer Bernstein. Chief among these edits were the removal of moments of violence and horror as the Balck Cauldron raised an army of the dead, who in turn killed all in their path.

Former Disney animator Michael Peraza states on his blog that not only has a black-and-white work in progress version of The Black Cauldron, he states the actual original negative is indeed the uncut version of the film, which then-newly-hired Jeffrey Katzenberg cut by 12 minutes.

Mr. Peraza writes:

"When Katzenberg first screened the film (Cauldron) he told us to cut it by 10 minutes. Roy Disney and I got together and found some scenes we could get rid of that didn't affect the story that much." When they ran it agin for Jeffrey and the film finished he asked Roy, "Is that 10 minutes?" When Roy replied that no it was only around 6 minutes. Jeffrey stated, "I said 10 minutes!" Joe [Hale] continued, "Eventually he (Jeffrey) cut out about 12 minutes which really hurt the picture. "

[snip]

"I talked with Roy E. Disney about restoring the cuts when I learned that it would be put on VCR tape. As I am sure that you know, the original version would be on the master negative, as the master negative is never cut. It's the "inner negative" that is cut. So all that is needed, would be to to make another "inner negative" from the master and all the cuts would be restored. Roy did not want to go to that expense for the release of the tape."

So, it is possible that one day, the uncut, darker, and more graphic version of the film may be seen. It exists. Here's hoping Disney restores this film for the future, inevitable Blu-Ray release.
I really hope so because even with it's flaws, this is my favorite of the post Walt pre-Little Mermaid Disney animated films.
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2014, 01:37 PM   #18
klauswhereareyou klauswhereareyou is offline
Blu-ray Samurai
 
klauswhereareyou's Avatar
 
Mar 2012
215
Default

Somewhat unrelated, but man can Square/Enix put a Black Cauldron level in Kingdom Hearts 3? That world would work prefectly in that game, but not being as popular as other stuff (I think Marvel and Star Wars is rumored for it, which I don't like because to me it should only be true Disney branded stuff in there) that'll probably get in.
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2014, 01:41 PM   #19
Ernest Rister Ernest Rister is offline
Blu-ray Knight
 
Ernest Rister's Avatar
 
Jan 2008
1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by klauswhereareyou View Post
Somewhat unrelated, but man can Square/Enix put a Black Cauldron level in Kingdom Hearts 3? That world would work prefectly in that game, but not being as popular as other stuff (I think Marvel and Star Wars is rumored for it, which I don't like because to me it should only be true Disney branded stuff in there) that'll probably get in.
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2014, 01:43 PM   #20
Viiincent Viiincent is offline
Active Member
 
Viiincent's Avatar
 
Sep 2007
794
4
1
Default

This is probably just wishful thinking, but maybe this is why they're taking so long to release it...
  Reply With Quote
Reply
Go Back   Blu-ray Forum > Movies > Movies


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 06:38 AM.