DTS CORE vs. DTS HD MA ( Should i Buy a new AVR ? )

[rana_kirti]

Guys,

My intention is to compare DTS found on a DVD Disc vs DTS Core and DTS HD MA found on a Bluray Disc.

1. So far my testing seems to say that the 1.5 mbps DTS Core of the Bluray Disc is "Superior by a Big Margin" to the 740 kpbs DTS of the Regular DVD.

But i can't test a DTS HD MA vs. DTS CORE since i dont have a modern HD Audio decoding AVR.

2. Can anyone who has heard both from a same Bluray Disc comment on how much Superior is the DTS HD MA vs DTS Core ( Both found on a Bluray Disc )

Answers to No. 2 is important for me to figure out as i'm planning to get a Bluray player. I'm quite happy with the sound of my current AVR Yamaha RX V450.

I believe the RX V450 can transfer and decode the DTS CORE 1.5 Mbps from a Bluray Disc via optical cable.

So if DTS HD MA is better than DTS Core by a "Huge/Significant" margin then i'll buy a New Modern AVR capable of decoding the DTS HD MA.

However if the difference between DTS HD MA and DTS Core is not much than i'll continue with my existing AVR.

That's my dilemma.....

Thanks

[Yeha-Noha]

Originally Posted by rana_kirti

Guys,

My intention is to compare DTS found on a DVD Disc vs DTS Core and DTS HD MA found on a Bluray Disc.

1. So far my testing seems to say that the 1.5 mbps DTS Core of the Bluray Disc is "Superior by a Big Margin" to the 740 kpbs DTS of the Regular DVD.

But i can't test a DTS HD MA vs. DTS CORE since i dont have a modern HD Audio decoding AVR.

2. Can anyone who has heard both from a same Bluray Disc comment on how much Superior is the DTS HD MA vs DTS Core ( Both found on a Bluray Disc )

Answers to No. 2 is important for me to figure out as i'm planning to get a Bluray player. I'm quite happy with the sound of my current AVR Yamaha RX V450.

I believe the RX V450 can transfer and decode the DTS CORE 1.5 Mbps from a Bluray Disc via optical cable.

So if DTS HD MA is better than DTS Core by a "Huge/Significant" margin then i'll buy a New Modern AVR capable of decoding the DTS HD MA.

However if the difference between DTS HD MA and DTS Core is not much than i'll continue with my existing AVR.

That's my dilemma.....

Thanks

Your answer to the #2 question was answered by #1. Yes, just as you did notice an audible improvement in sound quality, from a doubling of the bit rate from 0.75 Mbps to 1.5 Mbps, you can expect a similar improvement from doubling the 1.5 Mbps DTS core rate to 3.0 Mbps and higher from DTS HD MA. I was able to compare it since my BD player only decodes the DTS HD MA core but can send lossless DTS HD MA via HDMI to my AVR which does decode it. There is a difference. It's not night and day, but definitely a significant audible improvement in the sound quality.

Do be aware that what differences you hear between the DTS core and lossless DTS HD MA will depend on many variables like the quality of your audio components, room response, your acuity of hearing sound, and even the DTS HD MA tracks themselves because some have reference sound quality while others sound crappy. Don't forget, DTS HD MA is just a package that delivers lossless audio in a compressed (packaged) form. Thus, garbage in will still be garbage out.

Do yourself a favor. Get a BD player or AVR that decodes DTS HD MA. You are really missing out if you don't.

[BIslander]

As noted at AVS:

Originally Posted by BIslander

You'll get all sorts of answers to that question, ranging from night and day to no difference. I think the consensus among the more knowledgeable members is that the lossy core sounds about as good as lossless. Differences are subtle at best.

[Kryptonic]

Tests have been done that found that listeners couldn't tell the difference between a 1.5 mbps DTS or DD+ audio and lossless DTS-HD, TrueHD, or PCM. So basically, once you go beyond 1.5 mbps, IMO, there's little difference across the codecs.

[frogmort]

I have done some A/B testing, and I swear that I can hear a difference; Dialog seems more intelligble, LFE seems to have more definition, and treble seems to have more "air" around it. The sound overall seems more lifelike and three-dimentional.

I wouldn't say it's a night and day difference, but I would rather hear all the sound information that the director and sound engineer heard, instead of the lossy codec.

I would say that if sound quality is very important to you, you should have high definition sound. You've got HD video, why not have HD audio too!

Better sound quality sounds better.

[Ray O. Blu]

I voted for "Only Marginal/Barely Audible Difference" because I truly don't hear a significant difference between the two. That being said, I believe the "marginal" increase is still enough to warrant an upgrade to a lossless setup if you want the ultimate sound for your movies, music, etc.

[frogmort]

Originally Posted by Ray O. Blu

I voted for "Only Marginal/Barely Audible Difference" because I truly don't hear a significant difference between the two. That being said, I believe the "marginal" increase is still enough to warrant an upgrade to a lossless setup if you want the ultimate sound for your movies, music, etc.

Nicely said!

[Petra_Kalbrain]

If you have the equipment to properly pump out a hi-fidelity signal, then there is a significant difference. However, HTIB speakers and a mediocre AVR aren't gonna cut it.

[solarrdadd]

sooner or later your gonna either have to buy a new player because the older on dies or because they slowly start to not release things on DVD anymore (slim chance of that, right!) so if you've got an HDTV and you've got some nice speakers, give them the best you can.

if worring about keeping your current AVR is the real driver behind all of this (and i suspect it is) i checked your receiver and even though it doesn't have HDMI inputs, it does have multichannel analog inputs so, if you buy a blu-ray player get one that has analog outputs and you can still get lossless audio that way. simply allow the player to decode everything onboard and stream it via analog. with blu-ray you will have your choice to listen to either the lossless audio or the lossy core. you will get both. and of course, still keep your AVR.

also, sometimes people just want the best that they can get of what is offered. lossless is the best of audio that's offered. yes, some lossy recordings are very good and there is nothing wrong with them. also there is some lossless audio that's not recorded so good. however, given the choice i would choose the lossless to feed my system the wides dynamic range of audio that's available for me to listen to--no it doesn't mean that it's better sounding than lossy but i've never been dissapointed by a lossless audio track either.

i'm sure i'm gonna take a beating for this but i'm sure there are some folks who refuse to give up their CRT's despite that all of this HDTV is all over the place and that camp will swear that the sets they have are just as good and you can't see enough of a difference to make them spend the money to buy HDTV. i will leave them to their CRT's and I'll stick with my HDTV!

i hope you find out whatever it is your are trying to find out.

[Canada]

The DTS at 1.5 mbps is great the best you can do out of the non advanced codecs, but DTS MA blows DTS 1.5 mbps out of the water because it is bit for bit with the original. DTS MA has more surround activity, lower bass better high end. I would upgrade.

[ManUtd]

My answer is to the poll question is...it depends. Yeha-Noha listed some factors that determine the magnitude of the difference. Since a DTS-MA-capable BD player is most likely cheaper than a new AVR, I recommend you to get one instead.

[PaulGo]

I found the difference subtle but significant enough to want to use it if I have a choice.

[TheGigaShadow]

Originally Posted by Petra_Kalbrain

If you have the equipment to properly pump out a hi-fidelity signal, then there is a significant difference.

Not true.

[TheGigaShadow]

Originally Posted by Canada

but DTS MA blows DTS 1.5 mbps out of the water because it is bit for bit with the original.

Not true.

DTS MA has more surround activity, lower bass better high end.

Also not true.

[TheGigaShadow]

Originally Posted by rana_kirti

Guys,

My intention is to compare DTS found on a DVD Disc vs DTS Core and DTS HD MA found on a Bluray Disc.

1. So far my testing seems to say that the 1.5 mbps DTS Core of the Bluray Disc is "Superior by a Big Margin" to the 740 kpbs DTS of the Regular DVD.

But i can't test a DTS HD MA vs. DTS CORE since i dont have a modern HD Audio decoding AVR.

2. Can anyone who has heard both from a same Bluray Disc comment on how much Superior is the DTS HD MA vs DTS Core ( Both found on a Bluray Disc )

Answers to No. 2 is important for me to figure out as i'm planning to get a Bluray player. I'm quite happy with the sound of my current AVR Yamaha RX V450.

I believe the RX V450 can transfer and decode the DTS CORE 1.5 Mbps from a Bluray Disc via optical cable.

So if DTS HD MA is better than DTS Core by a "Huge/Significant" margin then i'll buy a New Modern AVR capable of decoding the DTS HD MA.

However if the difference between DTS HD MA and DTS Core is not much than i'll continue with my existing AVR.

That's my dilemma.....

Thanks

Read this. All of it.

http://www.hemagazine.com/node/Dolby...PCM?page=0%2C0

[TheGigaShadow]

Originally Posted by solarrdadd

i'm sure i'm gonna take a beating for this but i'm sure there are some folks who refuse to give up their CRT's despite that all of this HDTV is all over the place and that camp will swear that the sets they have are just as good and you can't see enough of a difference to make them spend the money to buy HDTV. i will leave them to their CRT's and I'll stick with my HDTV!

There is a such thing as a CRT that is HD. It doesn't have to be one or the other.

[Yeha-Noha]

Originally Posted by BIslander

As noted at AVS: You'll get all sorts of answers to that question, ranging from night and day to no difference. I think the consensus among the more knowledgeable members is that the lossy core sounds about as good as lossless. Differences are subtle at best.

I agree with your AVS post as applied to the bass frequencies. However, it's in the upper midrange and high frequencies that I can hear a significant difference. It's not just marginal or barely audible nor is it profoundly different. Let's just say it's noticeably different. That makes it significant in my book. Usually you won't hear it during intense action sounds or the like. You hear the difference mainly during the quieter scenes in a movie or in the soundtrack involving more subtle sounds, like from violins and strings playing pianissimo or low. The difference I hear is that the violins and strings have a delicate, silkier, smoother quality than it does when I listen to just the dts-core. It is simply more detailed if you are able to pick it out.

[frogmort]

Originally Posted by TheGigaShadow

Not true.

Do you have a lossless receiver?

[Yeha-Noha]

Originally Posted by TheGigaShadow

Read this. All of it.

http://www.hemagazine.com/node/Dolby...PCM?page=0%2C0

Be sure to read the comments too!

[Yeha-Noha]

Originally Posted by frogmort

Do you have a lossless receiver?

What's a lossless receiver?

I think you meant a receiver that decodes the lossless compression formats, right?