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Old 04-11-2014, 07:43 AM   #1
levcore levcore is offline
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Default My weird 3D problem (Samsung Active TV)

So i wanted to start a thread about this for a while. With certain 3D titles, my TV displays them in a way that makes everything on screen incredibly hard to focus on and causes fairly severe eye strain. I have noticed this problem with a lot of Fox titles and a select few others. It's really difficult to describe but it's definitely not due to any motion blurring setting or anything like that, as i have all of that stuff turned off all the time anyway. I have gone in to the picture menus once discs have started to make sure these settings have not turned themselves on, and they haven't.

The below are all UK releases apart from where stated:

Bait 3D (US release) (Anchor Bay?)
The Chronicles of Narnia: Voyage of the Dawn Treader (Fox)
The Darkest Hour (Fox)
Drive Angry (Lionsgate)
Gulliver's Travels (Fox)
The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey (Warners)
The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug (Warners)
Life of Pi (Fox)
Oz: The Great and Powerful (Disney)
Prometheus (Fox)
A Turtle's Tale: Sammy's Adventures (Optimum in the UK? Not sure)
Spiders (that cheesy movie, not a doco) (Lionsgate i think)

So what do the above titles have in common? I would like to know as the problem i am having occurs with all of the above. I have over 100 3D blu rays and this problem is unique to the above titles. I watch a lot of 3D content and there is a noticeable difference with the above discs. The 3D is very difficult to focus on, on my display and almost impossiple to follow fast moving action etc. Part of me thinks the problem might be due to the fact that all of the above are encoded a certain way and Samsung active TV is interpreting this differently to the rest of my 3D discs. I saw both Hobbit movies at Imax and had literally no problems with the 3D whatsoever, it was very clear and easy to follow. On blu ray on my TV though, it's a complete headache.

Does anyone have any idea what this problem could possibly be? I am no tech expert at all so i really struggling to describe the issue and struggle even more to work out what is causing it/ why my tv is displaying the 3D content this way.

The above titles that dont have much fast movement in them, i can get by watching in 3D, but ones with lots of fast action/ constant movement, such as the tiger/ ocean in Life of Pi or any of the action in The Hobbit movies are a complete nightmare for the eyes on my TV.

Has anyone heard anything about active TV's displaying certain 3D encodes a different way to some others? I'm clutching at straws here but i'm guessing it could be due to the way the 3D content is recorded on the disc and the way my specific TV is translating that to screen.

I will sincerely be grateful for any help at all or just any ideas what could be the route of this problem. I must reiterate though, i am not new to 3D content and this isn't simply a case of my eyes not adjusting to the 3D. The above discs look very different to the rest of my collection.

Thank you in advance for any helpful suggestions!
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Old 04-11-2014, 11:36 AM   #2
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Have you tried switching between left/right and right/left on your TV. It may be reversing the eyes. It looks like inverted 3D when this happens.
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Old 04-11-2014, 12:14 PM   #3
levcore levcore is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keb33509 View Post
Have you tried switching between left/right and right/left on your TV. It may be reversing the eyes. It looks like inverted 3D when this happens.
Very good suggestion but this is definitely not the problem, I've tried reversing the eyes. The 3D still displays the correct depth etc. It's just anything moving in the frame has almost a strobing effect to it, so difficult for the eyes to focus on. Thanks for the suggestion though.
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Old 04-11-2014, 12:34 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tigermoth View Post
Sounds like it might be your Blu-Ray player. It must read however those discs are coded and display one frame in one eye later than the other eye.
I don't think it's the player as I've gone through 2 different blu ray players and the problem was evident on both. One was a Toshiba, the other one a Samsung.

The problem you describe might be what i'm encountering, ie one frame being displayed later than an other. Without knowing what that would look like specifically, it could be that.
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Old 04-11-2014, 03:21 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by levcore View Post
I don't think it's the player as I've gone through 2 different blu ray players and the problem was evident on both. One was a Toshiba, the other one a Samsung.

The problem you describe might be what i'm encountering, ie one frame being displayed later than an other. Without knowing what that would look like specifically, it could be that.
In your TV's picture settings, go to 'Picture Mode' and try changing it from Standard/Vivid to 'Game'. This helped with strobing on my LG.
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Old 04-11-2014, 04:59 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by levcore View Post
I don't think it's the player as I've gone through 2 different blu ray players and the problem was evident on both. One was a Toshiba, the other one a Samsung.

The problem you describe might be what i'm encountering, ie one frame being displayed later than an other. Without knowing what that would look like specifically, it could be that.
I had the exact same problem on the same titles when played on my LG player. But on my Samsung and Sony players, these titles play fine...
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Old 04-11-2014, 07:02 PM   #7
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Don't yell blasphemy for suggesting this, but have you tried turning the motion smoothing ON to see if it helps? When I was researching before I purchased my UN46F6400, I read on LCDTVBUYINGGUIDE (particularly the 3D performance section) that turning Auto Motion to Standard was a good idea for 3D (off for everything else but Sports if you wish though of course). Just something to try.
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Old 04-11-2014, 09:25 PM   #8
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It's probably crosstalk. If you don't believe how bad it is on LCD's just try some random crosstalk/ghosting tests. On both my $2500 55" ES8000 and the $600 FH6300 crosstalk was equally terrible after testing for it. There are some tests on youtube such as this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MqpXQ...ature=youtu.be
and check out the DDD ghosting test attachment - just put it on a flashdrive
The ugly truth is that almost all LCD's suffer from terrible crosstalk and most people don't ever know it bc they don't test for it. No wonder there is eye fatigue and headaches so often
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Old 04-12-2014, 02:55 AM   #9
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I had a similar experience with Drive Angry, only when movement was happening. It turned out my BR player needed an update. Fairly simple, run a network cable to your blu ray player and access the menu on it, then dig around and you should eventually find a "search for updates" option or something like that. Do the search, let it update, shut it down and restart it then try one of the movies that have been causing you issues.

Edit:

Bet the common denominator is MVC (Multiview Video Coding) -> the extension was released in 09 and most BR players firmware required an update afterwards to keep the frames from playing out of sync. Reading your problem movie list, I feel 99% confident this is your problem as a good chunk of those have caused others similar problems.
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Old 04-12-2014, 12:18 PM   #10
levcore levcore is offline
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Thanks for the tips guys. Sadly it seems my player is up to date with all firmware updates.
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Old 04-12-2014, 01:56 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gamermwm View Post
It's probably crosstalk. If you don't believe how bad it is on LCD's just try some random crosstalk/ghosting tests. On both my $2500 55" ES8000 and the $600 FH6300 crosstalk was equally terrible after testing for it. There are some tests on youtube such as this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MqpXQ...ature=youtu.be
and check out the DDD ghosting test attachment - just put it on a flashdrive
The ugly truth is that almost all LCD's suffer from terrible crosstalk and most people don't ever know it bc they don't test for it. No wonder there is eye fatigue and headaches so often
+1

Sadly, my experience with Samsung was that while the 65ES8000 had spectacular 3D, the 60ES8000 suffered from the same excessive crosstalk/bluriness as described but pretty much with every 3D bluray. It was not overly noticeable on many titles, unless you had both the 60 and 65 set up right next to each other, then you realized how different the 3D performance was between the two sets even though they were the same models, just different sizes. Exchanged out three 60ES8000's and they all did the same thing. Found out the reason the 60 (and 55) models suffered from such excessive crosstalk compared to the 65ES8000 was because the 65 and 60/55 used different panels. The 65 had the best 3D performance I've ever seen from an LED panel, yet had the worst vertical banding and flashlighting I've ever seen. The 60ES8000 had no noticeable vertical banding but excessive crosstalk and flashlighting issues.

Wound up returning both sets for a 65HX950 and have been very happy since. Zero flashlighting, minimal vertical banding and minimal 3D crosstalk. Crosstalk is still evident but not nearly as distracting as with the 60 and smaller Samsung models. Would still love picking up a 3D projector, but unfortunately the black levels and contrast are just not up to par compared to flagship LEDs on the affordable BenQ and similar brands models.

All in all, no TV is perfect and you need to make compromises. From many I've spoken with when I had my Sammys is that since 3D was not their priority, they did not mind the excessive crosstalk/bluriness. I however could not live with it and could not deal with the excessive banding on the 65 model either, so just ponied up the extra amount to upgrade to the 65HX950. This was about a year and a half ago when I went through the Samsung panel lottery only to realize Sammys just weren't the right TV for me.
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Old 04-12-2014, 05:54 PM   #12
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Try going into Advanced Picture Settings and change the Auto Motion Plus from "Off" to "Custom" and set Judder Reduction to "0" and Blur Reduction to "0".

Also try lowering your sharpness down (while a 3D video is playing) to "10-15" and dim the backlight for 3D to around "8-10" in a fully dark room to "12-14" in a bright room and see if that helps.

One last thing to try is to set the 3D Effects in the 3D menu to "Manual" and set 3D Perspective to "0" and 3D Optimisation to "0" and make sure your players 3D settings are defaults.

Last edited by ADstv; 04-12-2014 at 06:01 PM.
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Old 04-12-2014, 08:52 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmay91472 View Post
+1

Sadly, my experience with Samsung was that while the 65ES8000 had spectacular 3D, the 60ES8000 suffered from the same excessive crosstalk/bluriness as described but pretty much with every 3D bluray. It was not overly noticeable on many titles, unless you had both the 60 and 65 set up right next to each other, then you realized how different the 3D performance was between the two sets even though they were the same models, just different sizes. Exchanged out three 60ES8000's and they all did the same thing. Found out the reason the 60 (and 55) models suffered from such excessive crosstalk compared to the 65ES8000 was because the 65 and 60/55 used different panels. The 65 had the best 3D performance I've ever seen from an LED panel, yet had the worst vertical banding and flashlighting I've ever seen. The 60ES8000 had no noticeable vertical banding but excessive crosstalk and flashlighting issues.

Wound up returning both sets for a 65HX950 and have been very happy since. Zero flashlighting, minimal vertical banding and minimal 3D crosstalk. Crosstalk is still evident but not nearly as distracting as with the 60 and smaller Samsung models. Would still love picking up a 3D projector, but unfortunately the black levels and contrast are just not up to par compared to flagship LEDs on the affordable BenQ and similar brands models.
Hey yeah I remember you from the ES Forum. See, I'm the opposite as far as projectors go. I have the BenQ 1080ST and thank God that it's DLP crosstalk free 3D the only way for me to watch 3D from here on out, especially since it's 100" and 3D becomes WAY more immersive than on any large tv

As far as critical viewing...I would only consider bluray critical viewing and I believe movies should be watched on the big screen. I'm not obsessed with blacks but in a darkened room with optimum settings I'm definitely not looking at grey blacks from my projector - Not at all. It is DLP, not LCD, but is also equal to many LCD projectors (up to 1.5 to 2x as much in price) as far as blacks and contrast go for a great price

I don't do any critical viewing on my tv...even though the much higher contrasts and deeper blacks of tv's are one factor...there's the clouding in the corners/ LCD inherent 3D crosstalk/ and the smaller size factor that lessens any of the benefits of watching on a tv. But that's just my opinion, a lot of people do all their movie watching on tv's, I used to also, and then I saw the light
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Old 07-04-2014, 07:55 AM   #14
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Hi guys, just an update to this. My player (my 5th player!!!!) packed up a couple of days ago, but as i have had such rotten luck with players, i took out an extended warranty when i bought this one. They told me the replacement model was actually the next model up, which was fine. The good news is that the replacement model does not exhibit the 3D problem i had with the above mentioned discs anymore! Fantastic. It means i can watch them all as they are meant to be seen. So it was indeed the player being annoying.

So I'm now on Blu Ray no. 6. Thats 6 blu ray players since 2010! I remember the days when stuff used to last
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Old 07-06-2014, 05:39 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by levcore View Post
Hi guys, just an update to this. My player (my 5th player!!!!) packed up a couple of days ago, but as i have had such rotten luck with players, i took out an extended warranty when i bought this one. They told me the replacement model was actually the next model up, which was fine. The good news is that the replacement model does not exhibit the 3D problem i had with the above mentioned discs anymore! Fantastic. It means i can watch them all as they are meant to be seen. So it was indeed the player being annoying.

So I'm now on Blu Ray no. 6. Thats 6 blu ray players since 2010! I remember the days when stuff used to last
Nope, you are not alone!

I've wanted to mention this before or even start a thread, but I figured most replies would be the standard "it's just you" thing, so I never bothered. Glad to see someone else mention this.

I'm sure we just have incredibly bad luck and many folks have had the same Blu-ray player working for 5 years, but that certainly hasn't been my experience. I've been through at least 4...I actually have lost count, may be 5, since I started in 2009.

Pretty much the same damn thing happens every time - the Blu-ray gives out, but it will still play DVDs. While they weren't "Oppo", the first two players (a Panasonic and a Sony) were nice mid-end $200+ players. Then I gave up and have been getting cheaper ones, my last two have been Samsung. Only one so far has lasted more than a year, and the one that lasted longer happened to be when I went weeks or even a few months at a time without watching Blu's.

I've tried everything - kept them dust-free, cleaned the lens, etc. - it's very frustrating. I hate to sound old but yeah it's true - they don't make 'em like they used to, LOL. My first VCR lasted from 1987 to 2007, LOL. And with all those moving parts, it's shocking.
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Old 07-06-2014, 07:44 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillieCassin View Post
Nope, you are not alone!

I've wanted to mention this before or even start a thread, but I figured most replies would be the standard "it's just you" thing, so I never bothered. Glad to see someone else mention this.

I'm sure we just have incredibly bad luck and many folks have had the same Blu-ray player working for 5 years, but that certainly hasn't been my experience. I've been through at least 4...I actually have lost count, may be 5, since I started in 2009.

Pretty much the same damn thing happens every time - the Blu-ray gives out, but it will still play DVDs. While they weren't "Oppo", the first two players (a Panasonic and a Sony) were nice mid-end $200+ players. Then I gave up and have been getting cheaper ones, my last two have been Samsung. Only one so far has lasted more than a year, and the one that lasted longer happened to be when I went weeks or even a few months at a time without watching Blu's.

I've tried everything - kept them dust-free, cleaned the lens, etc. - it's very frustrating. I hate to sound old but yeah it's true - they don't make 'em like they used to, LOL. My first VCR lasted from 1987 to 2007, LOL. And with all those moving parts, it's shocking.
It's relieving in a sense to hear of your similar struggles, but I also feel for you as it's a very frustrating situation. People tell me I must use them too much. it's like what? I only use it in the evenings and at weekends to watch blus, it's not like they're going 24 hours a day. At least now I am paying for an extended warranty I can get a replacement the day it packs up (again lol).
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Old 07-09-2014, 12:15 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by levcore View Post
Hi guys, just an update to this. My player (my 5th player!!!!) packed up a couple of days ago, but as i have had such rotten luck with players, i took out an extended warranty when i bought this one. They told me the replacement model was actually the next model up, which was fine. The good news is that the replacement model does not exhibit the 3D problem i had with the above mentioned discs anymore! Fantastic. It means i can watch them all as they are meant to be seen. So it was indeed the player being annoying.

So I'm now on Blu Ray no. 6. Thats 6 blu ray players since 2010! I remember the days when stuff used to last
Glad it's working out. PS3's blu ray 3D player, without any auto updates other than from the discs themselves, has been working without any flaws since 2010. Sorry to hear you had to go through so many players.
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Old 07-09-2014, 07:15 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Zivouhr View Post
Glad it's working out. PS3's blu ray 3D player, without any auto updates other than from the discs themselves, has been working without any flaws since 2010. Sorry to hear you had to go through so many players.
You know what's funny Zivouhr. When i had recent problems i got my brother in law to bring his PS3 round and my TV wouldn't even recognise that anything was plugged in! It wouldn't even acknowledge the PS3. I am seriously cursed with technology. Everything technical goes wrong on me.
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Old 07-09-2014, 04:10 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by levcore View Post
You know what's funny Zivouhr. When i had recent problems i got my brother in law to bring his PS3 round and my TV wouldn't even recognise that anything was plugged in! It wouldn't even acknowledge the PS3. I am seriously cursed with technology. Everything technical goes wrong on me.
Did he reset his video settings on his PS3 after connecting it. I bet that may be the problem. He has to hold down the power button till it beeps, then it would recognized it.
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Old 07-09-2014, 08:46 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keb33509 View Post
Did he reset his video settings on his PS3 after connecting it. I bet that may be the problem. He has to hold down the power button till it beeps, then it would recognized it.
Probably not Keb, thanks for the advice. I'll see if he can bring it round again at some point just to try.
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