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Old 05-15-2011, 10:22 PM   #1
UniSol GR77 UniSol GR77 is offline
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Default Star Trek Motion Picture and Khan: the best BDs?

Hello guys,

I'm planning to buy the 1979 classic and Khan on BD, since I've heard they feature excellent and pristine BD transfers, while the rest is 100% rubbish.
(Khan has even undergone a major restoration).

Do you confirm? If not, why?

Wondering if Paramount will ever re-release all 6 movies with brand new transfers...
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Old 05-15-2011, 10:25 PM   #2
Ray_Rogers Ray_Rogers is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UniSol GR77 View Post
Hello guys,

I'm planning to buy the 1979 classic and Khan on BD, since I've heard they feature excellent and pristine BD transfers, while the rest is 100% rubbish.
(Khan has even undergone a major restoration).

Do you confirm? If not, why?

Wondering if Paramount will ever re-release all 6 movies with brand new transfers...
You could import the first two and wait for the eventual STAR TREK 12: Insert Possible Subtitle Here to see if Paramount will completely remaster the rest including II and VI for the longer versions. I've been condisering this also.
I do prefer The Director's Cut over Theatrical for both The Motion Picture and The Wrath of Khan.
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Old 05-15-2011, 10:32 PM   #3
UniSol GR77 UniSol GR77 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray_Rogers View Post
You could import the first two and wait for the eventual STAR TREK 12: Insert Possible Subtitle Here to see if Paramount will completely remaster the rest including II and VI for the longer versions. I've been condisering this also.
I do prefer The Director's Cut over Theatrical for both The Motion Picture and The Wrath of Khan.
I cannot ever believe Paramount will not remaster 3, 4, 5, 6 and if possible even #1 (as they are doing for Superman: The Movie). Star Trek means great business for them!

William Shatner is my Elvis Presley!

Anyway do you confirm #1 and #2 are great?
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Old 05-15-2011, 10:39 PM   #4
Ray_Rogers Ray_Rogers is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UniSol GR77 View Post
I cannot ever believe Paramount will not remaster 3, 4, 5, 6 and if possible even #1 (as they are doing for Superman: The Movie). Star Trek means great business for them!

William Shatner is my Elvis Presley!

Anyway do you confirm #1 and #2 are great?
Warner Brothers is SUPERMAN. 1 & 2 I've only seen screenshots at Caps-a-Holic, I think, and at other comparison sites. Great film-like quality and the rest are DNRd which is unfortunate.
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Old 05-15-2011, 10:40 PM   #5
Aristide Massaccesi Aristide Massaccesi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UniSol GR77 View Post
Anyway do you confirm #1 and #2 are great?
I can confirm that right here, right now. #3 and #4 especially have issues with DNR.
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Old 05-15-2011, 10:43 PM   #6
BouCoupDinkyDau BouCoupDinkyDau is offline
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After watching AW's Director's Cut of TMP, I will not buy any bluray that does not feature it. It's simply superior to the theatrical release.

I haven't sampled The Wrath of Khan yet, but I can tell you that The Search for Spock, The Voyage Home, and First Contact are all half-assed transfers at best.

You want a good BD of Trek, pick up the '09 reboot and wait for remasters on the others.
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Old 05-15-2011, 10:55 PM   #7
Ray_Rogers Ray_Rogers is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BouCoupDinkyDau View Post
After watching AW's Director's Cut of TMP, I will not buy any bluray that does not feature it. It's simply superior to the theatrical release.

I haven't sampled The Wrath of Khan yet, but I can tell you that The Search for Spock, The Voyage Home, and First Contact are all half-assed transfers at best.

You want a good BD of Trek, pick up the '09 reboot and wait for remasters on the others.
Don't forget The Original Series releases either! Here's to hoping the rest of Trek will be released on Blu-ray.
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Old 05-15-2011, 11:04 PM   #8
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the original ST-TMP is surely far superior to the DC imo.
I am so glad Paramount released the original movie with its groundbreaking effects that I saw in the theater in 1979.
to not have done so would have been a travesty.
so count me very happy with the bd, as it presents the original film and not Wise's revisionist version.
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Old 05-15-2011, 11:08 PM   #9
Ray_Rogers Ray_Rogers is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arkadin View Post
the original ST-TMP is surely far superior to the DC imo.
I am so glad Paramount released the original movie with its groundbreaking effects that I saw in the theater in 1979.
to not have done so would have been a travesty.
so count me very happy with the bd, as it presents the original film and not Wise's revisionist version.
Wise explained in the special features had he more post-production time instead of being in a crunch, The Director's Cut would've been the Theatrical and not the other way around. He pulled a Ridley Scott/Steven Spielberg thankfully and not a George Lucas.
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Old 05-15-2011, 11:17 PM   #10
BouCoupDinkyDau BouCoupDinkyDau is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray_Rogers View Post
Wise explained in the special features had he more post-production time instead of being in a crunch, The Director's Cut would've been the Theatrical and not the other way around. He pulled a Ridley Scott/Steven Spielberg thankfully and not a George Lucas.
Yep, the only frivolous thing added to the DC of TMP was the OS shuttlecraft at starfleet headquarters, but you can hardly see it. The director's cut is how the directer wanted the film to be, but never had the time or money to finish it.



Besides, 99.99% of the f/x in the film are still intact, so I don't really see your issue, Arkadin.
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Last edited by BouCoupDinkyDau; 05-15-2011 at 11:24 PM.
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Old 05-15-2011, 11:28 PM   #11
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I don't think FC is half-assed. It's leaps and bounds over the DVD.
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Old 05-15-2011, 11:36 PM   #12
BouCoupDinkyDau BouCoupDinkyDau is offline
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Which isn't saying all that much.
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Old 05-15-2011, 11:49 PM   #13
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look, I understand that some people like the DC better and that's fine.
I'm just not one of them because I appreciate the film that I saw in the theater, and am not interested in what Wise "could have done.....so forth and so on... with in the future technology, etc. etc."
I mean that's what they always say isn't it?
"If we had just had this much more money or if we had just had....."
I mean that's all well and good, and
I'm happy he got to "complete" the film the way he wanted I guess, but I'll never be convinced it is a better film.
simple as that.
If paramount wants to release a double disc version with BOTH versions then I'm all for that.
but if they are only going to have one version on bd, thank god it's the original film, and I firmly believe that anyone who saw this IN THE THEATER IN 1979 would agree with this view.
I have a very strong suspicion that most of the people that prefer the DC did not see this in a theater in 1979.
right?

Last edited by Arkadin; 05-15-2011 at 11:54 PM.
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Old 05-16-2011, 12:03 AM   #14
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In answer to the OP, 1 and 2 look great - no question. The rest have a little too much DNR and aren't reference quality BDs by any means, but they still look pretty good and much better than the DVDs.
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Old 05-16-2011, 12:04 AM   #15
BouCoupDinkyDau BouCoupDinkyDau is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arkadin View Post
I'm happy he got to "complete" the film the way he wanted I guess, but I'll never be convinced it is a better film.

I have a very strong suspicion that most of the people that prefer the DC did not see this in a theater in 1979. right?
I saw it in the Theater in '79, and I've also watched it on Video Disk, VHS, and DVD.

And you didn't get the film he wanted with the theatrical cut. He has stated over the years and on the commentary of the DC that he ran out of time and money. Do you really think he intended for you to see the set when Kirk leaves the airlock? Do you honestly believe he left out the final reveal shot of V'ger because he thought the movie was better without it?

It's not revisionism in this case, it's finishing up what he started. The changes are all minor compared to the butcher job Lucas did on his films, and all the additional shots were given a retrograde look to make them match with the still flawed and still present f/x of the '79 version.

And there's no reason to have both films in the next release. The theatrical version is already out on BD. You got yours, now I'm just waiting on mine.
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Old 05-16-2011, 12:05 AM   #16
Ray_Rogers Ray_Rogers is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arkadin View Post
look, I understand that some people like the DC better and that's fine.
I'm just not one of them because I appreciate the film that I saw in the theater, and am not interested in what Wise "could have done.....so forth and so on... with in the future technology, etc. etc."
I mean that's what they always say isn't it?
"If we had just had this much more money or if we had just had....."
I mean that's all well and good, and
I'm happy he got to "complete" the film the way he wanted I guess, but I'll never be convinced it is a better film.
simple as that.
If paramount wants to release a double disc version with BOTH versions then I'm all for that.
but if they are only going to have one version on bd, thank god it's the original film, and I firmly believe that anyone who saw this IN THE THEATER IN 1979 would agree with this view.
I have a very strong suspicion that most of the people that prefer the DC did not see this in a theater in 1979.
right?
I was born in 1979 so your debate just went right out the window including thanking god. Guess what, I also waw His Girl Friday in theater too amng several other films. Originally seeing this when it was released doesn't give you entitlement to a strong biased opinion when the film company could've released all possible versions per Scott and Spielberg.
No thanks.

EDIT: I too am waiting for Mr. Wise's intended release also and agree in regards wholeheartedly with the previous poster. I still stand by my Ridley Scott/Steven Spielberg comment since both have allowed multiple versions/cuts of their films where applicable, BLADE RUNNER & CE3K especially, on home media formats.
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Last edited by Ray_Rogers; 05-16-2011 at 12:08 AM.
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Old 05-16-2011, 12:11 AM   #17
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The reason the director's cuts weren't included for TMP and WOK was due to the fact they were put together in standard definition only.

To properly put together the director's cut for TMP on Blu-ray would cost Paramount millions with no guarantee of a return on investment.
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Old 05-16-2011, 12:17 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dickdarlington View Post
The reason the director's cuts weren't included for TMP and WOK was due to the fact they were put together in standard definition only.

To properly put together the director's cut for TMP on Blu-ray would cost Paramount millions with no guarantee of a return on investment.
I'm actually eager to import both TMP and TWOK from the UK. Does Paramount ever look at their other divisions worldwide for sales or is it narrow-minded and only looking domestically?
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Old 05-16-2011, 01:44 AM   #19
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I actually had the Italian disc of TMP, which was the UK disc except for the actual
artwork,(BBFC logo on the disc), and thought it was a very good presentation.

I sold it a couple of says ago, because honestly, I'm only really a fan of Wrath of Khan
and First Contact, but I gave it a spin before getting rid of it and after waking from my coma,(),
I still thought it was a solid release.

Wrath of Khan is definitely worth a pick up as well.

Last edited by Sky_Captain; 05-16-2011 at 01:47 AM.
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Old 05-16-2011, 06:14 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arkadin View Post
"If we had just had this much more money or if we had just had....."
I mean that's all well and good, and
I'm happy he got to "complete" the film the way he wanted I guess, but I'll never be convinced it is a better film.
simple as that.
Agreed. I would never try to convince you otherwise. I have great respect for this and all theatrical releases. I did want to just mention the specifics that made this a very unique case, unlike Blade Runner; certainly unlike Star Wars - not to convince you to like something better - but just to be complete on knowledge since you mentioned things like "having the money" etc.

The issues Wise had with TMP weren't budget limitations or technological limitations or even artistic arguments with Paramount. When principal photography was finished, Wise was about to enter the post-production phase when Paramount changed schedules and told him that instead of a matter of months to edit the film, he had a matter of days. The speed at which he had to edit the hundreds of hours of film together meant just throwing a scene together without taking the time to figure out which frame to cut on or which camera shot to choose. That's why sometimes the same line of dialogue happens twice in a row, or there's a camera shot that holds four seconds too long. Since some of the VFX shots arrived hours before the film was due, he just spliced them in with no edits whatsoever.

When Paramount approached him, the extra footage (all 40 seconds or so of it) were things they pushed for. But the vast majority of the changes were just actually editing the film at all. Making camera shots end in sync with the dialog etc. Wise actually insisted on using the same editing equipment he used in '79.

I am very grateful to have the theatrical cut on Blu-ray, but I understand that this isn't really a case of a "director's cut" as just actually editing the film rather than putting raw footage on the screen.

Respectfully
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