Why is grain heavier in darker scenes? - Blu-ray Forum

italiano17771 · 06-06-2011, 03:11 PM

If this is in the wrong sub forum please move...

First, let me say I am not saying grain is good or bad...I am just curious why its not consistent. Did the director really want grain in some scenes and not in others??? Comments, opinions welcome.

This could be a stupid question, but I never really got a solid answer.

Also, why do some scenes have heavy grain and some do not...in the same movie!! For example, Public Enemies has extreme grain in some dark scenes and a clear crisp picture in other dark scenes.....also Green Zone is probably one of the most obvious movies that exhibits this. Some dark scenes are perfect...no grain whatsoever....20 seconds later there is a heavy layer of grain.

42041 · 06-06-2011, 03:17 PM

Short answer: it's harder to capture less light.
It may require the use of faster film stocks, which have larger, more light-sensitive grain, or push-processing the film to even faster speeds, which makes the image even grittier. Those scenes in The Green Zone are heavily pushed, and shot that way for aesthetic effect.

With movies shot with digital cameras, like Public Enemies, sensors have noise, and when you have very little light, the noise starts to overwhelm the image. For example, when you crank the sensitivity past ISO400 on your little digital camera, the image quality drops like a rock. Same with movies.
Public Enemies was also shot that way for aesthetic effect. They wanted to use minimal artificial lighting in those scenes.

Trebar · 06-07-2011, 02:59 AM

Battlestar Galactica was also shot that way. The extra noise makes everything look grittier. Some scenes look better than others when shot that way. Predator is an example where scenes were shot without enough light. Even seeing this film in the theater some dark scenes look like it was shot at 1600 ISO.

Ray_Rogers · 06-07-2011, 04:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by italiano17771

If this is in the wrong sub forum please move...

First, let me say I am not saying grain is good or bad...I am just curious why its not consistent. Did the director really want grain in some scenes and not in others??? Comments, opinions welcome.

This could be a stupid question, but I never really got a solid answer.

Also, why do some scenes have heavy grain and some do not...in the same movie!! For example, Public Enemies has extreme grain in some dark scenes and a clear crisp picture in other dark scenes.....also Green Zone is probably one of the most obvious movies that exhibits this. Some dark scenes are perfect...no grain whatsoever....20 seconds later there is a heavy layer of grain.

Public Enemies was shot as though it looked like very cheap looking video. Oh wait it was and they should've shot it on film. Yes it does look horrendeous to me.

Strevlac · 06-07-2011, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trebar

Battlestar Galactica was also shot that way. The extra noise makes everything look grittier. Some scenes look better than others when shot that way. Predator is an example where scenes were shot without enough light. Even seeing this film in the theater some dark scenes look like it was shot at 1600 ISO.

I think I read somewhere that a lot of the Predator footage was reframed via optical blow-ups, because they didn't get the exact shots they wanted during the shoot, or something or other. I could be wrong but that would explain the heavy grain.

KubrickFan · 06-07-2011, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ray_Rogers

Public Enemies was shot as though it looked like very cheap looking video. Oh wait it was and they should've shot it on film. Yes it does look horrendeous to me.

Director's intent and all that.

tigtat77 · 06-07-2011, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by italiano17771

Also, why do some scenes have heavy grain and some do not...in the same movie!! For example, Public Enemies has extreme grain in some dark scenes and a clear crisp picture in other dark scenes.....also Green Zone is probably one of the most obvious movies that exhibits this. Some dark scenes are perfect...no grain whatsoever....20 seconds later there is a heavy layer of grain.

Tansformers was like that. The scene in the bedroom at night when Sam's parents catch Micaela with him has insane amounts of grain.

Sonny Chiba · 06-07-2011, 11:53 PM

Are we sure everyone isn't confusing "dark scenes being granier" for "my tv can't handle dark scenes well so it degrades picture quality." I kind of think it's the former. Aren't LCD's really bad at dealing with dark scenes in general?

chip75 · 06-08-2011, 12:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by italiano17771

Also, why do some scenes have heavy grain and some do not...in the same movie!! For example, Public Enemies has extreme grain in some dark scenes and a clear crisp picture in other dark scenes.....also Green Zone is probably one of the most obvious movies that exhibits this. Some dark scenes are perfect...no grain whatsoever....20 seconds later there is a heavy layer of grain.

rushmore309 · 06-08-2011, 02:24 AM

I love grain! But, Public Enemies looks like absolute crap to me. That ain't grain...it's noise.

I've got many of Michael Mann's films on blu-ray and none of them look as awful as that. Took me completely out of the film.

Not trying to start a war of words. Just my opinion.

06-06-2011, 03:11 PM	#1
italiano17771 Active Member Member since:Jan 2009 Location:PA Home Theater Gallery:1 Blu-ray collection:177	Why is grain heavier in darker scenes? If this is in the wrong sub forum please move... First, let me say I am not saying grain is good or bad...I am just curious why its not consistent. Did the director really want grain in some scenes and not in others??? Comments, opinions welcome. This could be a stupid question, but I never really got a solid answer. Also, why do some scenes have heavy grain and some do not...in the same movie!! For example, Public Enemies has extreme grain in some dark scenes and a clear crisp picture in other dark scenes.....also Green Zone is probably one of the most obvious movies that exhibits this. Some dark scenes are perfect...no grain whatsoever....20 seconds later there is a heavy layer of grain.

06-06-2011, 03:17 PM	#2
42041 Blu-ray Samurai Member since:Oct 2008	Short answer: it's harder to capture less light. It may require the use of faster film stocks, which have larger, more light-sensitive grain, or push-processing the film to even faster speeds, which makes the image even grittier. Those scenes in The Green Zone are heavily pushed, and shot that way for aesthetic effect. With movies shot with digital cameras, like Public Enemies, sensors have noise, and when you have very little light, the noise starts to overwhelm the image. For example, when you crank the sensitivity past ISO400 on your little digital camera, the image quality drops like a rock. Same with movies. Public Enemies was also shot that way for aesthetic effect. They wanted to use minimal artificial lighting in those scenes. Last edited by 42041; 06-06-2011 at 03:21 PM.

06-07-2011, 02:59 AM	#3
Trebar Active Member Member since:May 2007 Location:Texas Blu-ray collection:124	Battlestar Galactica was also shot that way. The extra noise makes everything look grittier. Some scenes look better than others when shot that way. Predator is an example where scenes were shot without enough light. Even seeing this film in the theater some dark scenes look like it was shot at 1600 ISO. 80 gig PS3 - Pany 36" CRT Sony BDP-S350 - Sony 46" Bravia Han doesn't care for HD-DVD

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06-07-2011, 11:53 PM	#8
Sonny Chiba Banned Member since:Jun 2011	Are we sure everyone isn't confusing "dark scenes being granier" for "my tv can't handle dark scenes well so it degrades picture quality." I kind of think it's the former. Aren't LCD's really bad at dealing with dark scenes in general?

06-08-2011, 02:24 AM	#10
rushmore309 Active Member Member since:Sep 2010 Blu-ray collection:1169 Trading Score:1	I love grain! But, Public Enemies looks like absolute crap to me. That ain't grain...it's noise. I've got many of Michael Mann's films on blu-ray and none of them look as awful as that. Took me completely out of the film. Not trying to start a war of words. Just my opinion.