West Side Story 50th Anniversary Blu-ray 11/15/11 Review up

[in2video2]

Originally Posted by whitesheik

The 35mm would have been four-track mag and yes, the whistles would come from the rears. But WSS's brilliant original mix was six-track, so not only did the whistles come from the rear, they were hard-panned left and right. It was fantastic. None of that is reflected on the Blu-ray, but then again you'd have to have people working on the disc who actually know about the film. And therein lies the problem.

Precisely the point. Little or next to no knowledge of the project being worked on limits the ability to provide any reasonable quality control when you become clueless of the original material being worked upon.

[Deciazulado]

Wasn't the 60's 6-track 70mm, 5 front and 1 surround

[Paulo Elias]

Originally Posted by Deciazulado

Wasn't the 60's 6-track 70mm, 5 front and 1 surround

Yes. It follows the pattern established by the Todd-AO format.

It was not usual for older mixings to have little or no surround. But in this case the surround is quite alive and well and the Blu-Ray edition is missing it for the most part, with the exception of some ambient noises.

This is a problem that could easily be corrected and I find it difficult to understand why they didn't before the disc was released.

[whitesheik]

Originally Posted by Paulo Elias

Yes. It follows the pattern established by the Todd-AO format.

It was not usual for older mixings to have little or no surround. But in this case the surround is quite alive and well and the Blu-Ray edition is missing it for the most part, with the exception of some ambient noises.

This is a problem that could easily be corrected and I find it difficult to understand why they didn't before the disc was released.

All I can tell you is that I saw the film over twenty times in 70mm during its original run and the whistles came first from the extreme left, then the extreme right - how they achieved it I believe someone says on the HTF but achieve it they did.

[dougotte]

Originally Posted by whitesheik

All I can tell you is that I saw the film over twenty times in 70mm during its original run and the whistles came first from the extreme left, then the extreme right - how they achieved it I believe someone says on the HTF but achieve it they did.

I've never seen WSS in the theatres in any form, but could they have put a bit of echo of the whistles in the front right or left channel, a split second after the main whistle in the rear, thus making our brains think it was in the rear left or right?

Doug

[whitesheik]

Originally Posted by dougotte

I've never seen WSS in the theatres in any form, but could they have put a bit of echo of the whistles in the front right or left channel, a split second after the main whistle in the rear, thus making our brains think it was in the rear left or right?

Doug

No, they were extreme left and right whistles. At every performance people would look left and right - it sounded so real.

[DaViD Boulet]

I'm so disappointed hearing all of this... a restored 70mm print was viewed by folks just a short time ago and the studio didn't use it as the audio source, but instead fell back on a 35mm source/mix? And the image issues also sound disappointing... I just don't get it...

[Dubstar]

Originally Posted by DaViD Boulet

I'm so disappointed hearing all of this... a restored 70mm print was viewed by folks just a short time ago and the studio didn't use it as the audio source, but instead fell back on a 35mm source/mix? And the image issues also sound disappointing... I just don't get it...

did you happen to see the 70mm print at the AFI Silver in February of this year?

how MGM weren't even aware of this

Original 6-track Mix Recovered and Restored for West Side Story

is beyond me - really? how clueless can they be? ugh - how maddening!

[Paulo Elias]

I got in touch with projectionist Paul Rayton yesterday and he said to me that he is (understandably) yet to see the Blu-Ray. He is, on the other hand, aware of the Internet postings and cited Robert Harris as a hope to see the recall through. I do hope so too!

[ETphonehome501]

Isn't WSS's film studio actually MGM? The film's Blu-ray.com database is currently listing the studio as 20th Century Fox.

[KubrickFan]

Originally Posted by ETphonehome501

Isn't WSS's film studio actually MGM? The film's Blu-ray.com database is currently listing the studio as 20th Century Fox.

United Artists, actually (at least the distributor), whose movies went to MGM, and 20th Century Fox is now handling the distribution for those.

[ETphonehome501]

Originally Posted by KubrickFan

United Artists, actually (at least the distributor), whose movies went to MGM, and 20th Century Fox is now handling the distribution for those.

Considering this, MGM Home Entertainment owns the rights to this film. I believe 20th Century Fox is its deal distributor.

[Paulo Elias]

WSS is from the Mirisch Brothers (Mirisch Corporation or Mirisch Pictures), the very same who produced Some Like It Hot.

In the 1960's Mirisch Pictures was owned and distributed by United Artists, whose catalogue was later acquired and distributed by M-G-M, including home video. That's why we still see M-G-M home media (laserdisc and DVD) releases of WSS.

As of lately, M-G-M and its affiliates are being distributed by Fox Home Video world-wide. This includes de UA library as well. This distribution deal was renewed up to 2016, according to HomeMedia Magazine.

[Deciazulado]

West Side Story Blu-ray Review

[mr young]

On the subject of overtures, the uk version of scrooge also has the overture
missing.

[ZoetMB]

Originally Posted by whitesheik

All I can tell you is that I saw the film over twenty times in 70mm during its original run and the whistles came first from the extreme left, then the extreme right - how they achieved it I believe someone says on the HTF but achieve it they did.

Originally Posted by whitesheik

But WSS's brilliant original mix was six-track, so not only did the whistles come from the rear, they were hard-panned left and right. It was fantastic. None of that is reflected on the Blu-ray, but then again you'd have to have people working on the disc who actually know about the film. And therein lies the problem.

Originally Posted by whitesheik

No, they were extreme left and right whistles. At every performance people would look left and right - it sounded so real.

No way. The 70mm format was Left, Left-Center, Center, Right-Center, Right and mono surround. There was no stereo surround. What probably happened is that one whistle was sent to surround and left and the other whistle was sent to surround and right to give you the impression that it was "hard panned" to the rears. It's also remotely possible that they mixed to the surround first then added the fronts so you'd be fooled into thinking it was just in the surround. As I've written elsewhere, I saw the original 70mm of WSS at the Rivoli in NYC and it was one the best theatrical experiences of my life, especially the sound, and it was one of the reasons I became a recording engineer. But I don't specifically remember where the whistles came from in the sound field.

As for those who are disappointed that the 70mm 6-track restored mix wasn't used, I agree, but we couldn't have gotten that mix anyway because the Super Panavision (& ToddAO) format channel distribution is inconsistent with today's 5.1 or 7.1, so it would have had to be remixed anyway. But what I don't understand is who paid for the 6-track restoration and why if it wasn't going to be used for the Blu-ray. It's not like there's a new 70mm print circulating to theatres.

[Hatter]

Originally Posted by Dubstar

did you happen to see the 70mm print at the AFI Silver in February of this year?

how MGM weren't even aware of this

Original 6-track Mix Recovered and Restored for West Side Story

is beyond me - really? how clueless can they be? ugh - how maddening!

I'm pretty sure they were well aware of it. Cost considerations excuse however goes out the window when you consider the effort put into Sound Of Music and Complete Metropolis which sell for a similar price.

[bookcase]

I want to know how to spot the corrected discs when they hit store shelves. I won't buy this flawed edition.

[whitesheik]

Originally Posted by ZoetMB

No way. The 70mm format was Left, Left-Center, Center, Right-Center, Right and mono surround. There was no stereo surround. What probably happened is that one whistle was sent to surround and left and the other whistle was sent to surround and right to give you the impression that it was "hard panned" to the rears. It's also remotely possible that they mixed to the surround first then added the fronts so you'd be fooled into thinking it was just in the surround. As I've written elsewhere, I saw the original 70mm of WSS at the Rivoli in NYC and it was one the best theatrical experiences of my life, especially the sound, and it was one of the reasons I became a recording engineer. But I don't specifically remember where the whistles came from in the sound field.

As for those who are disappointed that the 70mm 6-track restored mix wasn't used, I agree, but we couldn't have gotten that mix anyway because the Super Panavision (& ToddAO) format channel distribution is inconsistent with today's 5.1 or 7.1, so it would have had to be remixed anyway. But what I don't understand is who paid for the 6-track restoration and why if it wasn't going to be used for the Blu-ray. It's not like there's a new 70mm print circulating to theatres.

However it was done it was done. Left, then right. Every performance. I understand that the surround was mono, but however they achieved it it worked brilliantly.

[Deciazulado]

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