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Old 07-27-2011, 03:50 PM   #1
mredman mredman is offline
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Unhappy Ghosting / Crosstalk / Double images

for example Piranha had ghosting in the theater. So does the 3D blu ray. But it is not severe at all it is only some places.
Almost every title i own have minimal ghosting does the 3D movies also have that in the theater

I also seen the reviews and it seems like the reviewers also experience ghosting on almost all titles.

One title in particular really has severe ghosting it is almost unwatchable in 3D because of it. It is My Bloody Valentine. It is so bad. Did this movie also have that much in theater like there is on the 3D blu ray

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Old 07-28-2011, 02:48 PM   #2
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I haven't seen Piranha, but I've seen almost every other 3D theatrical release and there has been very little crosstalk, the only time I've noticed it was in Kung Fu Panda 2 near the beginning of the movie. If I recall it was a scene with flaming torches at night and the torch light had some crosstalk going on. But it was very minor, and that's the only time I've ever noticed it at the theater.
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Old 07-28-2011, 05:24 PM   #3
Paul H Paul H is offline
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Default "Ghosting" Or Double image. Is this also an issue at the theater as much?

Ghosting i.e. crosstalk/double image is a filtering display limitation. In the theater and on Blu-ray 3D, the 3D video source usually is flawless in that both the left and right image data will have no crosstalk contamination. Both left and right images usually contain separate pristine 2D images.

Ghosting in the theater and on many (not all) home displays where polarized glasses or active shutter glasses are used, the "ghosting" will come from the limitations of the filter source that blocks the light of the intended image not to be seen. Usually only extreme areas in the picture where brightly lit sections on very dark or black backgrounds will defeat the intended result.

Systems that use a designated display for independent separated viewing for the left and right eye definitely verify that ghosting is usually not in the source. There are exceptions from filming techniques and equipment that can contaminate the image source or experimental conversion processes.

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Old 07-29-2011, 03:32 PM   #4
mredman mredman is offline
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Its weird there is more ghosting on 3D blu ray. How come they can't fix it so there would be no ghosting at all.
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Old 07-29-2011, 04:25 PM   #5
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Yeah, I've noticed at least a little ghosting on a lot of the 3d blus I have. Even games like Uncharted 3 and the demo for Motorstorm Apocalypse. I definitely recommend Stardust HD on the ps3. The 3d in that game is flawless and absolutely adds to the experience. I can't even play that game in 2d anymore.
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Old 07-29-2011, 05:15 PM   #6
Paul H Paul H is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mredman View Post
Its weird there is more ghosting on 3D blu ray. How come they can't fix it so there would be no ghosting at all.
3D blu-ray's are not the problem when ghosting is concerned.

Ghosting is caused by the limitations of the current 3D display's, the current capability of the filter devices and 3D Film/video sources with ghosting present.
Improvements and upgrades to displays and filters are being made all the time.

In the future you will be able to see a pristine 3D movie if authored from a pristine 3D film/video source, at home, using todays 3D blu-rays, and the 3D won't create any ghosting that isn't inherently already on the discs.
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Old 03-10-2012, 02:30 PM   #7
mobaby1979 mobaby1979 is offline
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Default Ghosting / crosstalk - here's a thought....

If you deal with ghosting/crosstalk somewhat frequently on 3d blurays:

1) It's amazing how you can still enjoy/appreciate 3d at all. I sure as hell wouldn't. It should be unacceptable. I have 38ish 3d blus and most everything worth owning in the 3d category, spent only $900 on my tv (and use a ps3), and I don't deal with it, ever.

(2) Being unacceptable as it is, you might want to seriously consider selling your gear while it can still fetch a decent price.




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[Vizio 47" Theater 3D] MY 3DBRs(47): Tangled, Despicable.., Coraline, HowToTrain.., IceAge:Dawn, Gnomeo, Saw7, Bolt, Cloudy.., OpenSeason, Megamind, Shrek 1-4, Alice in.., Rio, A Christmas.., Monsters Vs.., Thor, MarsNeeds.., LionKing, Beauty&.., NightmareBefore.., Pirates4, Cars2, CaptainAm.., Toy Story 1-3, PolarEx.., KungFuPanda1&2, Grand Canyon, MonsterHouse, IMAX Hubble, Transformers3, PussIn.., Tron:Legacy, Hugo, MTRobinsons, HappyFeet2, Titanic, BornToBe.., Avengers, Madagascar3, Avatar
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Old 03-10-2012, 03:48 PM   #8
EMAGDNIM EMAGDNIM is offline
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This is pretty subjective...

Does it happen? Yes...A lot? Not so much. Is it worth my time getting upset?

Nope...

I enjoy 3D content for what it is. It's still early tech so it still needs time to iron out the kinks...

Congrats in spending that much on a set? I don't really see what you're getting at...
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Old 03-10-2012, 04:52 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mobaby1979 View Post
If you deal with ghosting/crosstalk somewhat frequently on 3d blurays:

1) It's amazing how you can still enjoy/appreciate 3d at all. I sure as hell wouldn't. It should be unacceptable. I have 38ish 3d blus and most everything worth owning in the 3d category, spent only $900 on my tv (and use a ps3), and I don't deal with it, ever.

(2) Being unacceptable as it is, you might want to seriously consider selling your gear while it can still fetch a decent price.




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I don't see what you are getting at!? :/
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Old 03-10-2012, 09:07 PM   #10
Zivouhr Zivouhr is offline
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Ghosting is slightly distracting, but in no way a deal breaker for me.

I have a passive 3D TV, so on most 3D movies, there's no ghosting (triple image of 3D object, 2 ghosts along the sides, visible only because the 3D glasses don't COMPLETELY block out ALL light from the blackout eye).

The stronger the 3D, the more chances you will get for ghosting when there are strong contrasts in color/tone, such as a bright white star in black outer space. If the Star is 3D enough, you'll see hints of it, one on each side. If the 3D is subtle, you'll barely see it.

It all comes down to the glasses ability to block out the light and as suggested, IS a limitation of technology, not the 3D itself.
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Old 03-11-2012, 09:23 AM   #11
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You might want to direct these concerns to Martin Liebman

Seriously though, as others have said it is down to the set up. I have not really experienced it so not a big deal
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Old 03-11-2012, 04:35 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mobaby1979 View Post
If you deal with ghosting/crosstalk somewhat frequently on 3d blurays:

1) It's amazing how you can still enjoy/appreciate 3d at all. I sure as hell wouldn't. It should be unacceptable. I have 38ish 3d blus and most everything worth owning in the 3d category, spent only $900 on my tv (and use a ps3), and I don't deal with it, ever.

(2) Being unacceptable as it is, you might want to seriously consider selling your gear while it can still fetch a decent price.


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You might be right about selling your 3D tv now to fetch a decent price, since you only paid $900 bucks for it. I've always lived by they saying, "You always get what you pay for" mentality. I've gone the cheap route myself and ended up screwing myself. Believe me, I've learned a lesson about that. About your PS3, you've got a good player there and it supports games as well as 3D formats. I'd keep that one, but probably might be a good idea to sell the $900 clunker and buy a decent 3D TV.

Maybe think about getting the Sony XBR engine for 3D supported playbacks. I own one and it is fantastic. It is a bit pricy, I will grant you that, but I am not sorry that I paid a pretty penny for it. It is well worth the buckolas. Don't get me wrong, I don't work for Sony nor will I try to push a brand name off on someone, but I have owned other brands and ended up going back to Sony.

My brother bought a Sony XBR eng 3D tv, not as large as mine, but he is hysteretic over his tv.


Good luck on getting a decent price for your stuff.
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Old 03-12-2012, 04:18 PM   #13
mobaby1979 mobaby1979 is offline
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I don't think you read my original post correctly - I'm happy with my set - VERY happy! In fact, you'll be hard pressed to find a passive tv with better ratings online period. This is how you define a steal of a deal. You can't make assumptions about quality when comparing price in either end of the spectrum, high or low.

I would not go with active shutter no matter the brand or recommendations - because I have two friends wth active shutter 3D TVs - one of which is a 55" Sony - and the complaints from them ended up being the same as the things I have read from some on here - that the sweet spot is small, the glasses are annoying, and that ghosting/crosstalk is prevalent in some 3D movies. They were excited about 3D when they got their sets, and now, they think I'm crazy for buying so many 3D movies because they lost interest in it almost entirely.

For those that have active shutter and have no crosstalk/ghosting as well as don't typically 'spread out' much around the tv (my family of 4 sure does!), I bet you're perfectly happy with your set - you should be!! But for those who have lost a good deal of interest in 3D since getting your active shutter sets - seriously consider re-evaluating your purchase and consider passive tech. I was CRAZY about 3D when I first got my set, and the feeling has only grown since then! I feel for anyone who has to endure any level of frustration in order to enjoy 3D at home - we're spending decent money on this stuff and deserve a more flawless execution on the part of the tech.
[Vizio 47" Theater 3D] MY 3DBRs(47): Tangled, Despicable.., Coraline, HowToTrain.., IceAge:Dawn, Gnomeo, Saw7, Bolt, Cloudy.., OpenSeason, Megamind, Shrek 1-4, Alice in.., Rio, A Christmas.., Monsters Vs.., Thor, MarsNeeds.., LionKing, Beauty&.., NightmareBefore.., Pirates4, Cars2, CaptainAm.., Toy Story 1-3, PolarEx.., KungFuPanda1&2, Grand Canyon, MonsterHouse, IMAX Hubble, Transformers3, PussIn.., Tron:Legacy, Hugo, MTRobinsons, HappyFeet2, Titanic, BornToBe.., Avengers, Madagascar3, Avatar
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Old 03-12-2012, 04:37 PM   #14
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Is no one else getting tired of this passive vs. active tech crap? Just be happy with a set and don't say why "mine is better than yours."
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Old 03-12-2012, 04:41 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keb33509 View Post
Is no one else getting tired of this passive vs. active tech crap? Just be happy with a set and don't say why "mine is better than yours."
You wrong... mine is better than yours!

Just kidding... everyone should be happy with the buying the TV of their choice. I am happy with mine and I don't care what others say... it is me that watches it...
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Old 03-12-2012, 04:51 PM   #16
mobaby1979 mobaby1979 is offline
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I'm not coming from a place of 'mine is better than yours' - I get no pleasure from that even when it is the case, and I'm not saying that's the case here.

Where I'm coming from is, yes, only an opinion - that to have to deal with those distractions while watching 3D content is simply unacceptable. How is it not? The fact that you may have felt 'stuck' with your purchase doesn't change how unacceptable that is when you know darn good and well that SOME of you bought that specific set because of 3D!?!?

We all HAD certain expectations of 3D before we got our sets. Some of us have had those expectations fulfilled, and some of us have not. And I do feel for those who have not....thus the suggestion/reminder that this stuff drops in value quickly and that you may want to consider selling. I realize that with some of the bickering that goes on here, it's hard to read 'tone' in these posts, but I'm not trying to start a bickering match- I just know what I'd do if I couldn't enjoy 3D without the distractions - I'd chalk it up to a less than ideal purchase and lose a few hundred bucks on the set so that I could proceed to enjoy 3D the way I had hoped I would.

I bought my tv only a year after buying a non-3D 42" that I LOVED- but the thing is, I knew I wanted 3D and would only want it more as time went on...so I sold my 42" and since I hadn't waited eons and eons to do so, I was actually happy with what I got for it! That's ALL I'm sayin...consider a re-purchase if 3D is far from what you expected with your set.
[Vizio 47" Theater 3D] MY 3DBRs(47): Tangled, Despicable.., Coraline, HowToTrain.., IceAge:Dawn, Gnomeo, Saw7, Bolt, Cloudy.., OpenSeason, Megamind, Shrek 1-4, Alice in.., Rio, A Christmas.., Monsters Vs.., Thor, MarsNeeds.., LionKing, Beauty&.., NightmareBefore.., Pirates4, Cars2, CaptainAm.., Toy Story 1-3, PolarEx.., KungFuPanda1&2, Grand Canyon, MonsterHouse, IMAX Hubble, Transformers3, PussIn.., Tron:Legacy, Hugo, MTRobinsons, HappyFeet2, Titanic, BornToBe.., Avengers, Madagascar3, Avatar
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Old 03-12-2012, 04:56 PM   #17
Cevolution Cevolution is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mobaby1979 View Post
I don't think you read my original post correctly - I'm happy with my set - VERY happy! In fact, you'll be hard pressed to find a passive tv with better ratings online period. This is how you define a steal of a deal. You can't make assumptions about quality when comparing price in either end of the spectrum, high or low.

I would not go with active shutter no matter the brand or recommendations - because I have two friends wth active shutter 3D TVs - one of which is a 55" Sony - and the complaints from them ended up being the same as the things I have read from some on here - that the sweet spot is small, the glasses are annoying, and that ghosting/crosstalk is prevalent in some 3D movies. They were excited about 3D when they got their sets, and now, they think I'm crazy for buying so many 3D movies because they lost interest in it almost entirely.

For those that have active shutter and have no crosstalk/ghosting as well as don't typically 'spread out' much around the tv (my family of 4 sure does!), I bet you're perfectly happy with your set - you should be!! But for those who have lost a good deal of interest in 3D since getting your active shutter sets - seriously consider re-evaluating your purchase and consider passive tech. I was CRAZY about 3D when I first got my set, and the feeling has only grown since then! I feel for anyone who has to endure any level of frustration in order to enjoy 3D at home - we're spending decent money on this stuff and deserve a more flawless execution on the part of the tech.
Unless it's a plasma, I personally wouldn't buy an active shutter 3dtv either. I used to own a Samsung c8000 active led 3dtv, and it was crap. The crosstalk it would produced was horrible. I decided to do some research, and found that plasma's work far better with active shutter 3d technology, for multiple reasons. So I sold my active 3d lcd/led model, then demoed some 2011 active 3d plasma's in proper showrooms (which mimiced the conditions of how we watch movies at home), and was amazed with how much better I felt the 3d experience is on a plasma. From there it come down to a decision between Panasonic's VT30 or Samsung's PND8000 plasma's (which were reviewed as 2 of the very best 2d/3d tv's of last year). I ended up choosing the D8000 plasma, and I couldn't be happier, it's far better than any lcd/led 3d model IMO. I don't see any crosstalk with it whatsoever, and neither does anyone else.

If you don't like plasma's then I believe you should go with passive, as I think it is the better option for lcd/led tv's, passive just seems to work better with the limitations of LCD technology.

Though like others have said, as long as you are happy with your decision, then that's all that really matters.
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Last edited by Cevolution; 03-12-2012 at 05:05 PM.
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Old 03-12-2012, 06:11 PM   #18
clckworang clckworang is offline
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I use active shutter 3D with my projector and couldn't be happier. I've never seen any evidence of ghosting. The picture has always been great, even when I've been moving around.
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Old 03-12-2012, 06:44 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cevolution View Post
Unless it's a plasma, I personally wouldn't buy an active shutter 3dtv either. I used to own a Samsung c8000 active led 3dtv, and it was crap. The crosstalk it would produced was horrible. I decided to do some research, and found that plasma's work far better with active shutter 3d technology, for multiple reasons. So I sold my active 3d lcd/led model, then demoed some 2011 active 3d plasma's in proper showrooms (which mimiced the conditions of how we watch movies at home), and was amazed with how much better I felt the 3d experience is on a plasma. From there it come down to a decision between Panasonic's VT30 or Samsung's PND8000 plasma's (which were reviewed as 2 of the very best 2d/3d tv's of last year). I ended up choosing the D8000 plasma, and I couldn't be happier, it's far better than any lcd/led 3d model IMO. I don't see any crosstalk with it whatsoever, and neither does anyone else. If you don't like plasma's then you should go with passive IMO, as I think it is a better option for lcd/led tv's, passive just works better with the limitations of LCD technology.
I
Though like others have said, as long as you are happy with your decision, then that's all that really matters.
Good lord... Cevolution it has finally happened. ... We fanally have the same exact opinion about something.....plasmas or passive is the way to go when it comes to 3D
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Old 03-12-2012, 06:47 PM   #20
Cevolution Cevolution is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by banibale View Post
Good lord... Cevolution it has finally happened. ... We fanaly have the same exact opinion about something.....plasmas or passive is the way to go when it comes to 3D
We've agreed on other things before

The difference is though, I don't think passive is the better technology, I just think it's the better technology to use with LCD panels, as the response times of lcd tv's are far too slow to able to keep up with the requirements of active technology (amongst other things), which is a big reason why crosstalk is a huge problem for many active 3d led tv users.

Plasma's, Projectors and DLP's all work really well with active 3d technology, it's only generally lcd/led tv's that don't.
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