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Old 08-04-2011, 09:17 PM   #1
Lnds500 Lnds500 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by radagast View Post
From what I've read, the 100gb BD discs are designed for data archival, and there are no plans to use it for movies. Makes sense. Since you can get most movies on a BD-50, what would the point be of making every BD player out there obsolete? The industry wants it to succeed, not piss off customers.
In January 2007, Hitachi showcased a 100 GB Blu-ray Disc, consisting of four layers containing 25 GB each.[147] Unlike TDK and Panasonic's 100 GB discs, they claim this disc is readable on standard Blu-ray Disc drives that are currently in circulation, and it is believed that a firmware update is the only requirement to make it readable to current players and drives.[148]

In December 2008, Pioneer Corporation unveiled a 400 GB Blu-ray Disc (containing 16 data layers, 25 GB each) that will be compatible with current players after a firmware update. Its planned launch is in the 2009–10 time frame for ROM and 2010–13 for rewritable discs. Ongoing development is under way to create a 1 TB Blu-ray Disc as soon as 2013.[149]
- source: Wikipedia

There are ways to put movies like LOTR in fewer discs. And I really don't get why they haven't started already. Especially on TV series, having huge Blu-ray discs would help reduce the size of those ugly box-sets and it would be more practical.
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Old 08-04-2011, 10:52 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by Lnds500 View Post
In January 2007, Hitachi showcased a 100 GB Blu-ray Disc, consisting of four layers containing 25 GB each.[147] Unlike TDK and Panasonic's 100 GB discs, they claim this disc is readable on standard Blu-ray Disc drives that are currently in circulation, and it is believed that a firmware update is the only requirement to make it readable to current players and drives.[148]

In December 2008, Pioneer Corporation unveiled a 400 GB Blu-ray Disc (containing 16 data layers, 25 GB each) that will be compatible with current players after a firmware update. Its planned launch is in the 2009–10 time frame for ROM and 2010–13 for rewritable discs. Ongoing development is under way to create a 1 TB Blu-ray Disc as soon as 2013.[149]
- source: Wikipedia

There are ways to put movies like LOTR in fewer discs. And I really don't get why they haven't started already. Especially on TV series, having huge Blu-ray discs would help reduce the size of those ugly box-sets and it would be more practical.
I'd love complete seasons on 1-2 discs
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Old 08-05-2011, 02:21 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lnds500 View Post
In January 2007, Hitachi showcased a 100 GB Blu-ray Disc, consisting of four layers containing 25 GB each.[147] Unlike TDK and Panasonic's 100 GB discs, they claim this disc is readable on standard Blu-ray Disc drives that are currently in circulation, and it is believed that a firmware update is the only requirement to make it readable to current players and drives.[148]

In December 2008, Pioneer Corporation unveiled a 400 GB Blu-ray Disc (containing 16 data layers, 25 GB each) that will be compatible with current players after a firmware update. Its planned launch is in the 2009–10 time frame for ROM and 2010–13 for rewritable discs. Ongoing development is under way to create a 1 TB Blu-ray Disc as soon as 2013.[149]
- source: Wikipedia

There are ways to put movies like LOTR in fewer discs. And I really don't get why they haven't started already. Especially on TV series, having huge Blu-ray discs would help reduce the size of those ugly box-sets and it would be more practical.
How much would it cost for BD pressing facilities to convert to these new formats? How much would it cost studios to put movies on these formats? Those are the questions you have to ask yourself. Remember when BDs cost a lot more than they do now? I remember. The market, especially with the recession, simply isn't going to accept the higher cost for discs. And mainstream BD users who are finally buying the cheaper priced players and discs are not going to want to mess with getting a firmware update either.

Most of us who have been supporting Blu-ray for years have been waiting for the day when it went mainstream. We don't need a new format, or a new version of a format, to take us back to the dark ages again. Most movies don't need that much space so there is no economic reason to adopt those formats. Saving money is the "in thing" these days.
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Last edited by radagast; 08-05-2011 at 02:31 PM.
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Old 08-05-2011, 08:49 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by radagast View Post
How much would it cost for BD pressing facilities to convert to these new formats? How much would it cost studios to put movies on these formats? Those are the questions you have to ask yourself.
I'm not saying that every movie should be put on 400GB-discs, but movies like LOTR and TV series(!) would really benefit from the extra space.
From what I gather, the new BDs will be perfectly manufactured on current pressing facilities. There is no new laser technology or something like that, only more layers. Even if that's not the case though, no, I don't think it would cost that much to convert to a new format. Imagine having 100 machines producing 25 and 50GB discs. Studios like WB wouldn't have a problem dedicating another 5-10 to TV series-production and huge movies only. Especially in the long term, and considering there will be let packaging etc, price won't be a problem.

Quote:
Remember when BDs cost a lot more than they do now? I remember. The market, especially with the recession, simply isn't going to accept the higher cost for discs. And mainstream BD users who are finally buying the cheaper priced players and discs are not going to want to mess with getting a firmware update either.
Do you remember 3D?? I remember. Apparently, people are buying 3D movies (mod edit). Blu-ray's capacity will go up, it's only natural. CD capacities went up, DVD capacities went up. So the question I'm going to ask myself is, why studios aren't pushing the format for some of their releases.

Quote:
Most of us who have been supporting Blu-ray for years have been waiting for the day when it went mainstream. We don't need a new format, or a new version of a format, to take us back to the dark ages again. Most movies don't need that much space so there is no economic reason to adopt those formats. Saving money is the "in thing" these days.
UPDATE

Spare us your catastrophizing, please. 3D is a new version of the same format we are talking about. Formats change, they evolve. And, as I said, we wouldn't need 400GB for every movie obviously

Last edited by Lnds500; 08-19-2011 at 05:16 PM. Reason: Edited for language
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Old 08-05-2011, 09:31 PM   #5
radagast radagast is offline
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Originally Posted by Lnds500 View Post
I'm not saying that every movie should be put on 400GB-discs, but movies like LOTR and TV series(!) would really benefit from the extra space.
From what I gather, the new BDs will be perfectly manufactured on current pressing facilities. There is no new laser technology or something like that, only more layers. Even if that's not the case though, no, I don't think it would cost that much to convert to a new format. Imagine having 100 machines producing 25 and 50GB discs. Studios like WB wouldn't have a problem dedicating another 5-10 to TV series-production and huge movies only. Especially in the long term, and considering there will be let packaging etc, price won't be a problem.



Do you remember 3D?? I remember. Apparently, people are buying 3D movies [/B]Blu-ray's capacity will go up, it's only natural. CD capacities went up, DVD capacities went up. So the question I'm going to ask myself is, why studios aren't pushing the format for some of their releases.



Spare as your catastophizing, please. 3D is a new version of the same format we are talking about. Formats change, they evolve. And, as I said, we wouldn't need 400GB for every movie obviously

You might want to reword that sentence. It makes no sense.

And I would be careful about throwing around insults. People get suspended and banned for that.

And calling people lazy just because they aren't techies is silly. Videophiles may have no problem doing firmware updates, but the fact is, many people just want to plug in and play and not have to do anything else. There's no reason to look down on people who feel like that.
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Last edited by Blu Titan; 08-06-2011 at 03:19 AM. Reason: Edited quote
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Old 08-05-2011, 11:00 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by radagast View Post
You might want to reword that sentence. It makes no sense.

And I would be careful about throwing around insults. People get suspended and banned for that.

And calling people lazy just because they aren't techies is silly. Videophiles may have no problem doing firmware updates, but the fact is, many people just want to plug in and play and not have to do anything else. There's no reason to look down on people who feel like that.
It does make sense, if you know what the words mean. I don't "insult" people randomly but when someone argues with me and he bases his arguments on silly excuses, I really like to express my thoughts.

Blu-ray, to some extend, is for "techies". It is an advanced technology aimed at technology-literate people who want the best quality while watching movies. Nearly every blu-ray player comes with internet connection (most of which are Wi-Fi) and automatic updates of their software. Actually, I think the majority in here owns a PS3 system, which updates itself automatically. Blu-ray players in short, are meant to be updated. It is common sense to expect that people do update devices like that every once in a while and even if they don't, firmware updates is hardly a reason as to why a movie to a larger-capacity-blu-ray wouldn't succeed.
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Old 08-06-2011, 12:50 AM   #7
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Blu-ray's capacity will go up, it's only natural. CD capacities went up, DVD capacities went up. So the question I'm going to ask myself is, why studios aren't pushing the format for some of their releases.
I am not aware of triple-layer+ DVDs. Unless the blu-ray spec was designed with support for additional layers in mind and player manufacturers followed through on that, I doubt it'll happen.
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Old 08-06-2011, 08:19 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by 42041 View Post
I am not aware of triple-layer+ DVDs. Unless the blu-ray spec was designed with support for additional layers in mind and player manufacturers followed through on that, I doubt it'll happen.
He probably meant that DVD capacity went up when they started using double-layer discs.
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Old 08-06-2011, 09:51 AM   #9
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IMO if the studios pushed hard enough for BDs beyond 50GB then we would almost certainly see them appear, at least in trial run and assuming they are compatible with current players. Afterall Universal managed to release those "impossible-to-make" flippers, however that was never a hardware issue.

Clearly the studios still love their multi-disc boxsets and the ROI with higher capacity discs is not worth pursuing. File this one under "scientia fingendi".
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Old 08-06-2011, 10:36 AM   #10
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Exactly, they'd rather tell us we are getting 20 BD's than 5. Ridiculous but true.
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Clearly the studios still love their multi-disc boxsets
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Old 08-06-2011, 10:37 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by 42041 View Post
I am not aware of triple-layer+ DVDs. Unless the blu-ray spec was designed with support for additional layers in mind and player manufacturers followed through on that, I doubt it'll happen.
It is happening. And yes, blu-rays were meant to have additional layers in the future. I remember from the very start of blu-ray when I read articles about it, they were planning to have 1TB discs in the future.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gregmasciola View Post
He probably meant that DVD capacity went up when they started using double-layer discs.
Partly yes. My point was that DVDs and CDs did not start out as 4,7GB and 700MB respectively, their capacities went up progressively.
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Old 08-06-2011, 04:07 PM   #12
radagast radagast is offline
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Originally Posted by Lnds500 View Post
It does make sense, if you know what the words mean. I don't "insult" people randomly but when someone argues with me and he bases his arguments on silly excuses, I really like to express my thoughts.

Blu-ray, to some extend, is for "techies". It is an advanced technology aimed at technology-literate people who want the best quality while watching movies. Nearly every blu-ray player comes with internet connection (most of which are Wi-Fi) and automatic updates of their software. Actually, I think the majority in here owns a PS3 system, which updates itself automatically. Blu-ray players in short, are meant to be updated. It is common sense to expect that people do update devices like that every once in a while and even if they don't, firmware updates is hardly a reason as to why a movie to a larger-capacity-blu-ray wouldn't succeed.
No, the sentence I highlighted does NOT make sense.

Quote:
Spare as your catastophizing, please.
How does the word "as" make sense there? Pay attention.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lnds500 View Post
Partly yes. My point was that DVDs and CDs did not start out as 4,7GB and 700MB respectively, their capacities went up progressively.
No, CDs have not changed in their capacity. The Red Book for pre-recorded CDs has not changed.

There have been instances when specific CDs have been created with slightly longer times, but it costs more to make them.

You are the one with silly arguments here. Just because YOU think something should happen doesn't mean the rest of the world will, or should agree.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lnds500 View Post
It is happening. And yes, blu-rays were meant to have additional layers in the future. I remember from the very start of blu-ray when I read articles about it, they were planning to have 1TB discs in the future.

And I remember reading that those bigger discs were going to be for business applications to store data. You are the silly one if you think any studio has any reason to want to go to higher capacity Blu-rays. You might as well sit on your chair at home and pout until holographic discs replace BDs.
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si post fata venit gloria non propero

Last edited by radagast; 08-06-2011 at 04:22 PM.
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Old 08-06-2011, 11:21 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by radagast View Post
No, CDs have not changed in their capacity. The Red Book for pre-recorded CDs has not changed.
They have changed, slightly.

Quote:
[...]or 650 MB of data on a CD-ROM. A disc with data packed slightly more densely is tolerated by most players (though some old ones fail). Using a linear velocity of 1.2 m/s and a track pitch of 1.5 µm yields a playing time of 80 minutes, or a data capacity of 700 MB.
Quote:
Just because YOU think something should happen doesn't mean the rest of the world will, or should agree.
Yes, but it has happened, bigger BDs are a fact. I don't want you to agree, in fact, I couldn't care less what's your opinion on the subject.

Quote:
And I remember reading that those bigger discs were going to be for business applications to store data.
yeah, I can see how much more sufficient it would be for businesses to store their files on BDs. much less time consuming than, say, HDDs. yeah, that makes a lot of sense *sarcasm*

Quote:
You are the silly one if you think any studio has any reason to want to go to higher capacity Blu-rays.
I explained this a few posts back. Pay attention

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You might as well sit on your chair at home and pout until holographic discs replace BDs.
What's your problem exactly? Is it updating your player? Or progress in general?
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Old 08-06-2011, 11:32 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by 42041 View Post
I am not aware of triple-layer+ DVDs. Unless the blu-ray spec was designed with support for additional layers in mind and player manufacturers followed through on that, I doubt it'll happen.
No ‘plans’ at this time but, there have been discussions, as I already noted here -
http://forum.blu-ray.com/insider-dis...ml#post4859584

I would say that the chances of larger capacity discs (for movies, TV series, etc.) coming to fruition is about a little less than 50/50.
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Old 08-06-2011, 11:46 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Lnds500 View Post
It is happening. And yes, blu-rays were meant to have additional layers in the future. I remember from the very start of blu-ray when I read articles about it, they were planning to have 1TB discs in the future.
Yet, this was never planned for the home video market, it was for companies that require high data capacity.
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Old 08-07-2011, 01:53 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Lnds500 View Post
Actually, I think the majority in here owns a PS3 system, which updates itself automatically. Blu-ray players in short, are meant to be updated. It is common sense to expect that people do update devices like that every once in a while and even if they don't, firmware updates is hardly a reason as to why a movie to a larger-capacity-blu-ray wouldn't succeed.
Only about 35% own a PS3 and have used if for playing Blu-ray titles according to this poll (though some people own more than one player so that % might not be totally accurate):

http://forum.blu-ray.com/blu-ray-pla...o-you-own.html

edit: Although according to the poll below, the majority of those who filled in the poll say they do own a PS3
http://forum.blu-ray.com/general-cha...u-own-ps3.html
(though the numbers don't quite add up).

Also, I don't think a good consumer playback system should need consumers to keep updating the firmware. Even if consumers could easily do it it makes it more likely they could 'brick' a player/make it unusable.

Last edited by 4K2K; 08-07-2011 at 04:45 AM.
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Old 08-07-2011, 01:56 AM   #17
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Won't the PS4 require larger capacity discs?
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Old 08-07-2011, 09:36 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by 4K2K View Post
Only about 35% own a PS3 and have used if for playing Blu-ray titles according to this poll (though some people own more than one player so that % might not be totally accurate):

http://forum.blu-ray.com/blu-ray-pla...o-you-own.html

edit: Although according to the poll below, the majority of those who filled in the poll say they do own a PS3
http://forum.blu-ray.com/general-cha...u-own-ps3.html
(though the numbers don't quite add up).

Also, I don't think a good consumer playback system should need consumers to keep updating the firmware. Even if consumers could easily do it it makes it more likely they could 'brick' a player/make it unusable.
Still, 32.29% + 3.13% = 35,42% is the largest single share of one single BD player. So, the majority, is using a PS3 as a blu-ray player.

Products in general these days are a lot more buggy than they used to be before broadband connections became mainstream. This has led to companies launching more buggy software and hardware, because they have the opportunity to fix it after it has reached consumers' hands. Usually firmware updates are used to fix these bugs or add extra features (PS3 + 3D being the greatest example). Even if it's boring to some, it is very helpful and satisfying to see the company from which you bought the player from still supports and improves your product. NOBODY complained when Sony added 3D compatibility to the PS3.
That's my point mainly. It's (kind of) a necessity to update your hardware every once in a while. Would it be better to buy a TV/BD player/video game and not have anything to do with updates because everything would work great? Surely. Do I prefer that i get some extra features after I've bought a product? Hell yeah!.
And, come on(!), what's the amount of devices getting "bricked" after a problematic update (which is not so common)? 1%? maybe less. I don't brag or anything, but I never had a problem updating any device I own, be it a PC, my TV, an iPod etc.

anyway, guys, I really wanna stop arguing about everything. this is stupid, I just posted some info regarding BDs in the LOTR thread and a mod thought it would be nice to have a separate thread about it..
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Old 08-07-2011, 12:17 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Lnds500 View Post
Still, 32.29% + 3.13% = 35,42% is the largest single share of one single BD player. So, the majority, is using a PS3 as a blu-ray player.
I thought majority meant more than 50%.

The other poll (that has a lot fewer votes) gives a majority of people who voted owning a PS3, but the one that says 35.42% can't be a majority if majority means >50%?
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Old 08-07-2011, 05:28 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steedeel View Post
Won't the PS4 require larger capacity discs?
Why?
Nothing is true, everything is permitted.
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