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Go Back   Blu-ray Forum > Displays > LCD TVs

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Old 11-10-2011, 04:44 PM   #1
Finmaan Finmaan is offline
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Default Sharp Elite vs Pioneer Kuro Elite

Sharp Elite goes head to head with the Pioneer Kuro Elite for best flat panel ever! See link below for review!
http://www.hometheater.com/content/s...d-led-lcd-hdtv
Equipment : Pioneer Kuro Elite Pro 111FD
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Old 11-10-2011, 04:45 PM   #2
nolfoc nolfoc is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finmaan View Post
Sharp Elite goes head to head with the Pioneer Kuro Elite for best flat panel ever! See link below for review!
http://www.hometheater.com/content/s...d-led-lcd-hdtv
Does the Elite offer any 2D only tvs? just curious
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Old 11-10-2011, 04:51 PM   #3
Finmaan Finmaan is offline
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No they don't , would love to have that option. They'd have to bring down the price tag if they did. The 80" Elite must be spectacular
Equipment : Pioneer Kuro Elite Pro 111FD
(ISF Calibrated by Gregg Loewen Lion A/V)
Onkyo 705 , Ps-3 40gb ,Comcast Hd dvr ,APC 1500 Ups, Logitech 1100 Remote with Lutron Light Control

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Old 11-10-2011, 07:10 PM   #4
Tech-UK Tech-UK is offline
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Nice find and great review. I wonder how it compares to the Philips 9000 series. I don't think its available in the US, same as the Elite won't be available in Europe (well not yet ).
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Old 11-10-2011, 07:28 PM   #5
bobbydrugar bobbydrugar is offline
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I don't think a 2d only version would bring the price down anywhere except the imagination of consumers that havent been paying attention to the market over the last year or so. Its not the lack of 2d that reduces the cost of TV's anymore but lower quality pannels and fewer features. What drives the cost of this sharp so high is the higher quality parts used to acheive these amazing results, Same thing that drove the Kuro so high as well.

PS this sharp is actually able to display 2d content just fine for those with some strange aversion to anything that says 3D on it.

Thanks,
T
TV: Samsung UN55D8000
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Old 11-10-2011, 08:44 PM   #6
William H Pratt William H Pratt is offline
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I'll be KEEPING my Kuro, despite what those persons with some strange attraction to anything that says 3D on it say!
Cogito, Ergo Sum
My DVD Library / The BLOOD is the Life!
Pioneer Elite PRO PDP-111FD - 2/28/2009
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Old 11-10-2011, 09:17 PM   #7
dobyblue dobyblue is offline
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"Its off-axis performance is no better than average for an LCD"

Pass.
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Old 11-10-2011, 09:43 PM   #8
WiWavelength WiWavelength is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbydrugar View Post
What drives the cost of this sharp so high is the higher quality parts used to acheive these amazing results...
Not really. The unusually high dealer margins are bigger factors in driving the MSRPs of the Sharp Elites so high. The dealer costs have been posted in other forums. Mark up can exceed 90% on these sets.

AJ
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Old 11-10-2011, 09:51 PM   #9
palmerwallace palmerwallace is offline
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USA To Hell with Sharp/Elite/Whatever

After seeing one of these personally and owning a Samsung 8500 LED (which created lawsuit between Samsung and Sharp for "stolen local dimming backlit technology"), I will be glad I only spent $2500 on the best TV I've ever seen and not wasted 6K on a joke that misuses a great name for a mediocre brand. The picture on these sets are NOWHERE near 6K worth.

Also, 3D blows anyway. Total gimmick for kids and people to spend more money in theaters. Nolan knows it isn't 3D that puts audiences in seats..it's a good story and pushing the envelope with still developing Hi-Def technology in cameras...hence why he said NO to TDKR in 3D to WB.

Nuff said.
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Old 11-10-2011, 11:52 PM   #10
Blu-Dog Blu-Dog is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WiWavelength View Post
Not really. The unusually high dealer margins are bigger factors in driving the MSRPs of the Sharp Elites so high. The dealer costs have been posted in other forums. Mark up can exceed 90% on these sets.

AJ
The price needs to drop drastically, and it will.
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Old 11-11-2011, 12:16 AM   #11
WiWavelength WiWavelength is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blu-Dog View Post
The price needs to drop drastically, and it will.
Oh, I agree. Sharp and dealers will reduce the inflated Elite prices when they realize that they must do so in order to be even remotely competitive in the current marketplace. Or if they fail to realize that, then they will be more or less forced to reduce prices when the fire sale begins as Sharp pulls the plug on this Elite revival, just as Pioneer did a few years ago.

Not that I would welcome their failure, but I still give the new Elites only a 50 percent chance of making it to a second generation, only a 25 percent chance of making it to a third generation.

AJ
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Old 11-11-2011, 12:28 AM   #12
Robert Zohn Robert Zohn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dobyblue View Post
"Its off-axis performance is no better than average for an LCD"

Pass.
This is simply untrue, in fact, the opposite is true. By far the Elite has the very best off axes viewing picture quality of any LCD/LED.

And it does not suffer from the serious blooming that plagues all other local dimming LED panels.

-Robert

Quote:
Originally Posted by WiWavelength View Post
Not really. The unusually high dealer margins are bigger factors in driving the MSRPs of the Sharp Elites so high. The dealer costs have been posted in other forums. Mark up can exceed 90% on these sets.

AJ
Sorry AJ, but no TV has any m/u near 90% and the posts on HDJ stating the costs of the Elite TV are greatly exaggerated.

The m/u is only slightly better than other TVs since the street price has already dropped significantly; here's most of the reason this TV is so high priced. 2.5 yrs ago when Pioneer announced their exit from the display business they entered into an alliance with Sharp with one simple mission; to build the very best display possible with not cost barrier.

That's the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

-Robert

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blu-Dog View Post
The price needs to drop drastically, and it will.
I agree, with one exception, as long as sales are strong and supply is constrained the price will not drop as quickly as we would all like, but the average selling price has significantly degraded since it's launch last month.

Great TV, in fact, the very best display available, but very pricey.

-Robert
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Old 11-11-2011, 12:36 AM   #13
WiWavelength WiWavelength is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Zohn View Post
Sorry AJ, but no TV has any m/u near 90% and the posts on HDJ stating the costs of the Elite TV are greatly exaggerated.
With all due respect, Robert, post the dealer costs, since you are a dealer. If the previously attributed costs, which came from reputable sources, are somehow incorrect, then correct them with actual numbers.

Otherwise, I will take your explanations into consideration but with a grain of salt. There are just too many conflicts of interest involved. And, after all, you were asked to leave the other forum.

AJ
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Old 11-11-2011, 12:43 AM   #14
ManUtd ManUtd is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Zohn View Post
I agree, with one exception, as long as sales are strong and supply is constrained the price will not drop as quickly as we would all like, but the average selling price has significantly degraded since it's launch last month.
-Robert
What is the current average selling price of both models?
Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. - Dr. Seuss
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Old 11-11-2011, 12:58 AM   #15
Robert Zohn Robert Zohn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WiWavelength View Post
With all due respect, Robert, post the dealer costs, since you are a dealer. If the previously attributed costs, which came from reputable sources, are somehow incorrect, then correct them with actual numbers.

Otherwise, I will take your explanations into consideration but with a grain of salt. There are just too many conflicts of interest involved. And, after all, you were asked to leave the other forum.

AJ
Who are you referring to as reputable sources, not any of the two posters I read.

What conflicts are too many and I would hope you would not consider my issue with HDJ a blemish on my reputation. Do you honestly feel that way? Should I list my bio so you can make a more educated decision on my qualifications?

And no I will not post dealer net cost, but I will tell you I am a factory direct authorized dealer, something that is reserved for the very few best and largest authorized dealers.

-Robert

Quote:
Originally Posted by ManUtd View Post
What is the current average selling price of both models?
The prices have varied daily, kind of like commodities trading, but 60" Elites are as low as $4,400 and the 70" can get as low as $6,500. Remember the 60" Elite monitors had a MSRP of $7,500.

To make this a main stream product the MSRP and dealer cost needs to get down, but I do not expect this to happen for a long time as demand is greater than the supply and the reviews have been excellent.

-Robert
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Old 11-11-2011, 04:30 PM   #16
Blu-Dog Blu-Dog is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Zohn View Post
Who are you referring to as reputable sources, not any of the two posters I read.

What conflicts are too many and I would hope you would not consider my issue with HDJ a blemish on my reputation. Do you honestly feel that way? Should I list my bio so you can make a more educated decision on my qualifications?

And no I will not post dealer net cost, but I will tell you I am a factory direct authorized dealer, something that is reserved for the very few best and largest authorized dealers.

-Robert
Before this goes overboard, the problem is not the dealer network; it's the usual front-loading of R&D, new production, marketing, and distribution costs by the manufacturer. The name "Elite", a highly recognized and revered name by aficiandos, is being used to support the new line - something that non-aficiandos won't appreciate, or pay for. Once the group of aficiandos peruses the product and either buys it, or doesn't, the marketing and other costs will be shifted to the general public, and prices will fall considerably.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Zohn View Post
The prices have varied daily, kind of like commodities trading, but 60" Elites are as low as $4,400 and the 70" can get as low as $6,500. Remember the 60" Elite monitors had a MSRP of $7,500.

To make this a main stream product the MSRP and dealer cost needs to get down, but I do not expect this to happen for a long time as demand is greater than the supply and the reviews have been excellent.

-Robert
Well, supplies are short because manufacturers can't fill all the warehouses with a commodity product right now. Cash and credit are in tight supply for luxuries right now. As things loosen up - perhaps over the next year or so - prices will fall, production will ramp up, and things will go steady state.

It's not reasonable to go to a dealer and demand to know the dealer's cost, as in many ways, it's irrelevant. It would be better to know what the inventory supply count is, or the manufacturer's cost. Otherwise, you'd have to ask the dealer's cost for every dealer in the country, and find out what the real demand is...and it's not worth the consumer's time for that.

Cost from the manufacturer to the dealer is only one component of true dealer cost...markup includes payroll, real estate, you name it. It's not just the invoice from the manufacturer. If that were the case, you'd buy manufacturer direct, and that just isn't happening.
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Old 11-12-2011, 06:42 PM   #17
boulder_bum boulder_bum is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dobyblue View Post
"Its off-axis performance is no better than average for an LCD"

Pass.
I actually don't agree with the reviewer on this point. Off angle viewing is better than any other LCD I've seen. You don't really see the picture quality drop off at all until you're at an angle where you wouldn't want to watch the TV anyway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by palmerwallace View Post
After seeing one of these personally and owning a Samsung 8500 LED (which created lawsuit between Samsung and Sharp for "stolen local dimming backlit technology"), I will be glad I only spent $2500 on the best TV I've ever seen and not wasted 6K on a joke that misuses a great name for a mediocre brand. The picture on these sets are NOWHERE near 6K worth.

Also, 3D blows anyway. Total gimmick for kids and people to spend more money in theaters. Nolan knows it isn't 3D that puts audiences in seats..it's a good story and pushing the envelope with still developing Hi-Def technology in cameras...hence why he said NO to TDKR in 3D to WB.

Nuff said.
I have both the UN55B8500 and the 60" Elite, so I'd say I have a pretty good perspective on both TVs.

Short version of the story is that the Elite wins in most categories and the picture pops a bit more.

Blacks, while excellent on both TVs, are deeper on the Elite, as is shadow detail. In fact, with lights on, you can't tell the difference between the screen and the bezel with the Elite.

Moving resolution is better on the Elite, there's no noticeable blooming compared to the UNB8500, the off-angle viewing is better and the Elite displays the best looking 3D around (for those of us who actually like 3D).

The Elite also has built-in WiFi, apps that are fast enough to be usable, THX certfication, Skype capabilities, better speakers (though I doubt many owners use them) and finer control over calibration.

That, and I'm hoping I don't have to replace the faulty transistors in the Elite like I did my UNB8500.

The only thing I kind of liked better about the UNB8500 is that it shut local dimming zones down when they weren't in use (Elite just turns them down to almost zero), so things would be pitch black for completely black scenes, even with the lights off. That said, the approach the Elite takes makes it so you don't notice any blooming, which is good.
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Old 11-12-2011, 06:47 PM   #18
boulder_bum boulder_bum is offline
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Here's the conclusion from the original article, which I thought was worth posting. HomeTheater.com is now the second site to say the new Sharp Elite beats the Kuro:

Is the Elite PRO-60X5FD the new all-time flat-panel champ? Id have to say yes, by a nose...

Is the margin so clear cut as to produce a glut of used Kuros on eBay and Videogon? No, but potential new buyers can now remove the hair shirts they donned when they missed the Kuro train as it pulled out of the station and chugged off into the sunset.
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Old 11-13-2011, 04:58 PM   #19
CHASLS2 CHASLS2 is offline
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If the 60" Elite were at $3500 i would be all over it.
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Old 11-13-2011, 05:06 PM   #20
Woody Woody is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WiWavelength View Post
With all due respect, Robert, post the dealer costs, since you are a dealer. If the previously attributed costs, which came from reputable sources, are somehow incorrect, then correct them with actual numbers.

Otherwise, I will take your explanations into consideration but with a grain of salt. There are just too many conflicts of interest involved. And, after all, you were asked to leave the other forum.

AJ
He is 100% correct and of course he cannot post costs.
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