Sealed Subs

[erict]

Anyone running sealed subs who mainly use their system for movies? How do you like the results? Did you come from a ported sub? Also, what size driver?

[rpatt]

I have four sealed subs with 12" aluminum drivers and 1000-Watt amplifiers. Amazing results with movies and music. I also have two ported subs with 14" drivers and 400-Watt amplifiers but I'm using those as docked bass modules for the front two 4-way towers. They all work very well together.

[aces high]

Originally Posted by erict

Anyone running sealed subs who mainly use their system for movies? How do you like the results? Did you come from a ported sub? Also, what size driver?

I used to to run dual 12' ported subs and made the move to sealed, admittedly I went way up in quality. I like them but also haven't listened to any of the top ported subs like the SVS Ultra so I can't compare. What are you thinking of going with?

[erict]

Originally Posted by aces high

I used to to run dual 12' ported subs and made the move to sealed, admittedly I went way up in quality. I like them but also haven't listened to any of the top ported subs like the SVS Ultra so I can't compare. What are you thinking of going with?

Not sure which route I will be going but I'm pretty sure I will do the passive route this time around. Maybe a single 12" or dual 12" or 10".

[aces high]

Originally Posted by erict

Not sure which route I will be going but I'm pretty sure I will do the passive route this time around. Maybe a single 12" or dual 12" or 10".

Most companies will use some sort of eq, dsp or signal shaping in the plate amps to combat sealed subs natural roll off of roughly 30hz. Going passive you'll be on your own to do that. The eq in your avr most likely isn't going to be enough, an external eq may be needed.

I doubt a 10's sealed sub is really going to give you the output your looking for or used to coming from ported. I like the idea of a dual opposed 12' myself.

[Blu-Dog]

Originally Posted by erict

Anyone running sealed subs who mainly use their system for movies? How do you like the results? Did you come from a ported sub? Also, what size driver?

I'm running a sealed JL Audio Fathom F113 in my main theater, and two JL Audio W-3 13" drivers in custom cabinets, sealed, in my family room (it's a large open floor plan, the area is huge) with regular TV.

The Fathom has an amp rated at 2,000 watts, the W-3's have a QSC amp rated at 500 watts per channel, running both W-3's at 4 Ohms. Stunning performance, covering a huge area.

The trade-off is power required, and efficiency of the sub itself. I prefer sealed, with massive power behind it, for accuracy. Ported subs also do very well (I have Klipsch 12" in my office) and they work fine in a smaller area, but they bottom out if you crank them in a large area. If you go passive and have some real juice behind them, sealed is the way to go.

If you have the space for a big box, and keep the ported subs down to a level where they don't flap around, it's perfectly fine. It just takes more subs to get the same effect, and placement is a big issue. If it's a fairly small room, don't worry about it, ported can be very, very nice (especially for music).

[theJman]

Originally Posted by aces high

Most companies will use some sort of eq, dsp or signal shaping in the plate amps to combat sealed subs natural roll off of roughly 30hz.

By this are you suggesting that all acoustic suspension subwoofers start to roll off around 30Hz? If so, I would imagine that companies like SVS and Rythmik might want to challenge you on that position.

[aces high]

Originally Posted by theJman

By this are you suggesting that all acoustic suspension subwoofers start to roll off around 30Hz? If so, I would imagine that companies like SVS and Rythmik might want to challenge you on that position.

Here's an example of what some subwoofer companies are doing to get their sealed subwoofers to play low bass,
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1351494
Do you really think most companies are just putting drivers in a box, add an amp and the sub will produce some of the numbers claimed? That's not going to happen in most cases without some sort of eq, it can happen if your lucky with lots of room gain but I don't think that's the norm.

[theJman]

Originally Posted by aces high

Here's an example of what some subwoofer companies are doing to get their sealed subwoofers to play low bass

That's an extraordinary review he did, but frankly I have neither the time or desire to read the entire thing. From what you're implying though I'll just assume Epik EQed in a boost. They wouldn't be the first one to do that, of course; manufacturers of both acoustic suspension and bass reflex are not immune to such a thing, so in-and-of itself I'm not sure that can be considered a damning fact.

Epik's compensation (real or not) can't be used to indict an entire class of subwoofer though. It's more than safe to assume that a properly designed acoustic suspension sub -- with sufficient resources -- would not arbitrarily roll off at a set point simply because the enclosure is sealed.

[aces high]

Originally Posted by theJman

That's an extraordinary review he did, but frankly I have neither the time or desire to read the entire thing. From what you're implying though I'll just assume Epik EQed in a boost. They wouldn't be the first one to do that, of course; manufacturers of both acoustic suspension and bass reflex are not immune to such a thing, so in-and-of itself I'm not sure that can be considered a damning fact.

Epik's compensation (real or not) can't be used to indict an entire class of subwoofer though. It's more than safe to assume that a properly designed acoustic suspension sub -- with sufficient resources -- would not arbitrarily roll off at a set point simply because the enclosure is sealed.

Why would a ported sub need to be boosted with eq? The tuning point is determined by box size, length and diameter of the ports and of course driver capability.

I agree that that sealed sibs don't always start to roll off at a set frequency but the most common point is roughly 30hz. I don't feel like taking the time to find more examples but there's lots of them out there and many other sealed subs besides the Epik Empire are using the same tactics to achieve the performance numbers they claim. Take a read in the DIY section of AVS and see how many people need the low end boost when using a subwoofer build the same as Eric is proposing, it's the vast majority.

[aces high]

I know that Eric is thinking of going with an eD sub, here's a look at the frequency response of an 18' eD in a sealed cabinet with no eq vs the Empire.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...8&postcount=42

I'm not trying to say all sealed subs roll off at the same point, just that they need some sort of eq or boost on the low end. Otherwise your most likely to be disappointed with the results that you hear from the subwoofer.

[theJman]

Originally Posted by aces high

Why would a ported sub need to be boosted with eq?

I'm not intimating either style of sub actually needs any boost, only that it occurs. I have my reservations about whether it's a good thing, but I suspect it will continue to happen so long as people look at those numbers as the end all-be all of comparisons.

[Crabalocker]

Originally Posted by erict

Anyone running sealed subs who mainly use their system for movies? How do you like the results? Did you come from a ported sub? Also, what size driver?

I'm running a single Seaton SubMersive HP which has dual 15" and a 2400w amp. I upgraded from a SvS PC-13 Ultra.

The short version: the SubMersive DESTROYS the Ultra!

The SvS Ultra is a great sub IMO but the SubM is in another league. I was honestly worried about my upgrade, before the SubM arrived, because I loved the way my SvS sounded and thought that there is no way the Seaton could sound any better. Man was I wrong!

The SubMersive is so smooth sounding, tight and reaches to where I didn't think sound existed........this thing goes low.

It really is, that good. Oh yea, my room is BIG with one wall being 30' and 27' across but the main area is basically 20'x23' (odd shaped)

[victorvondoom88]

Running a dual 12" sealed sub. Mirage BPS-400 (no longer made). I've been happy with it for about 10 years so far.

[davidp71]

I came from a Velodyne ported sub to the new Paradigm SUB-10 sealed sub and this Paradigm the bass is more tight and not so boomy and responsive and doesnt seem to rattle everything in the room, although that could be the use of the Subdude HD I am using. So far, I love it.

[Duval]

For what it's worth, I just got dual CHT 18.1's with 18" drivers sealed. I'm a long time ported sub user coming from Dual Axiom EP500's.

I'm 40% music and 60% movies. Eq is only coming from Onkyo nr3008 multiXT32.

The difference is astounding and I was quite shocked at the difference. The CHT 18.1's crushed the EP500's. The slam and visceral impact is like nothing I've heard before.

I can say I will never never go back to ported, I'm pretty much done upgrading subs.

DD

[wormraper]

Originally Posted by Duval

For what it's worth, I just got dual CHT 18.1's with 18" drivers sealed. I'm a long time ported sub user coming from Dual Axiom EP500's.

I'm 40% music and 60% movies. Eq is only coming from Onkyo nr3008 multiXT32.

The difference is astounding and I was quite shocked at the difference. The CHT 18.1's crushed the EP500's. The slam and visceral impact is like nothing I've heard before.

I can say I will never never go back to ported, I'm pretty much done upgrading subs.

DD

famous last words

[Duval]

Originally Posted by wormraper

famous last words

Ok, OK, I have a disease...like the rest of you people!

[HAMP]

Originally Posted by Duval

For what it's worth, I just got dual CHT 18.1's with 18" drivers sealed. I'm a long time ported sub user coming from Dual Axiom EP500's.

I'm 40% music and 60% movies. Eq is only coming from Onkyo nr3008 multiXT32.

The difference is astounding and I was quite shocked at the difference. The CHT 18.1's crushed the EP500's. The slam and visceral impact is like nothing I've heard before.

I can say I will never never go back to ported, I'm pretty much done upgrading subs.

DD

Before I got to the end of your post I was thinking, I wonder what the heck is XT32 doing to the subs, because it does make a difference. I don't think I have read any complaints about the XT32. I believe I was the only one that was messing up, until I was told to put the Ausyessy mic a little higher.

Then I get to the part you feel it's the ported sub that's great. Some people love ported and some love sealed, I guess that's what this thread is all about.

[Woody]

I run 2 sealed 15" subs.

I greatly prefer sealed sub performance (in general) to ported.

As another poster said, I won't go to ported.

The drawback is the power required to get high output compared to the power required for a ported sub.

In my experience the bass from sealed subs is often tighter and more defined than the ported subs I have heard.

The best recommendation is to try to find a dealer that allows you to listen to the subs in your room.