Apple Working on High Resolution Audio

[Riff Magnum]

Originally Posted by alexkx

how sad! I love being able to relate to people far and wide about recording artists. That's less likely if they've never heard of them. The impact is far less significant when the music is not a part of people's lives on a broad scale.

Otherwise i am thrilled that people have success in all manners. I would definitely say that there is a difference in ten thousand, one hundred thousand, a million, ten million, and a hundred million u.s. Dollars. It's actually not all about masturbating it away. As i said it allows for other people to have jobs which creates industries and prosperity. It is your choice if you want to embrace poverty, disease, early death, enslavement, and the worship of a cult of personality (ie. Obama). I prefer myself and others being prosperous so that other people can experience and have opportunities that they might not otherwise have.

Originally Posted by alexkx

um...it's capitalism and freedom that brought us out of the mud and stone age. Your assesment of it is wrong and not based in facts according to human history.

My assement of you is correct. Most do not believe in freedom and capitalism and wonder what's going on? Why's everything all messed up and confusing? Just as most people don't have a clue what to do with money which is why you would loose your house and family (no matter how much you made) long before anyone would come along and take them away from you. Though that could happen just as well as proven time and again since history repeats itself.

Are you preaching to me about honesty in one breath and in the other in the same post that you don't care about it? Who's on the crazy train again?

what in gods name are you f#cking talking about?

[rock, stone]

Originally Posted by AlexKx

How sad! I love being able to relate to people far and wide about recording artists. That's less likely if they've never heard of them. The impact is far less significant when the music is not a part of people's lives on a broad scale.

Otherwise I am thrilled that people have success in all manners. I would definitely say that there is a difference in ten thousand, one hundred thousand, a million, ten million, and a hundred million U.S. dollars. It's actually not all about masturbating it away. As I said it allows for other people to have jobs which creates industries and prosperity. It is your choice if you want to embrace poverty, disease, early death, enslavement, and the worship of a cult of personality (ie. Obama). I prefer myself and others being prosperous so that other people can experience and have opportunities that they might not otherwise have.

Man, way to not descend into self parody.

Oh wait-

[Hammie]

How did this go from a Special Edition Neil Young iPod to a fight about how the "music industry" failed???

Find some where else to play, will you?

[warrenoates61]

Internet killed the video star

[Riff Magnum]

Originally Posted by Hammie

How did this go from a Special Edition Neil Young iPod to a fight about how the "music industry" failed???

Find some where else to play, will you?

A better question would be, how did we go from discussing digital music and the fall of traditional music distribution (not so off topic when you think about it), to someone telling us how stupid we are for following Obama and not properly understanding the concepts of freedom and capitalism?

[singhcr]

Getting back on topic...

Do we have any more info on the new iPod itself, or if Apple is going to release 24-bit content on the iTunes store? One can't really exist without the other.

[AlexKx]

Point being that the music industry is doing terrible in comparison to the past and that these ideas are failures. As long as the copyrights are not protected then music will never flourish up to the potential that it can as a product and service. I therefore believe that the best way to disperse music as a sold product is in a form that cannot easily be stolen and until so will not have the backing of those who will invest properly to make it happen.

[Gremal]

Neil should be focused on the follow-up to this, not making outrageous claims about Apple.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...8497796&sr=8-1

[blu2]

Originally Posted by Gremal

Neil should be focused on the follow-up to this, not making outrageous claims about Apple.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...8497796&sr=8-1

I don't think anything Neil said was "outrageous".

It was already reported a year ago that Apple was involved in industry discussions on high res music:

http://www.cnn.com/2011/TECH/web/02/...sic/index.html

"We've gone back now at Universal, and we're changing our pipes to 24 bit. And Apple has been great," Iovine said. "We're working with them and other digital services -- download services -- to change to 24 bit. And some of their electronic devices are going to be changed as well. So we have a long road ahead of us."

Should not be too costly to start using a 24-bit DAC in their products.

[pentatonic]

Originally Posted by blu2

I don't think anything Neil said was "outrageous".

It was already reported a year ago that Apple was involved in industry discussions on high res music:

http://www.cnn.com/2011/TECH/web/02/...sic/index.html



Should not be too costly to start using a 24-bit DAC in their products.

Now that might be e device I would go for, a 96/24 digital player. Carry it to the car and voila hi-res there. Hope all this turns out to be real, then Downloading stuff would be more than ok.

[Gremal]

Originally Posted by blu2

I don't think anything Neil said was "outrageous".

It was already reported a year ago that Apple was involved in industry discussions on high res music:

http://www.cnn.com/2011/TECH/web/02/...sic/index.html

Apple was also part of the Blu-ray group and look where that got us. The company is only interested in industry discussions insofar as it helps them dominate their markets.

Should not be too costly to start using a 24-bit DAC in their products.

But will be pointless given that 99.9% of music is produced for 16/44.1. Apple targets a mass consumer market, not an audiophile market. All their incredible success is due to their excellent margins and marketing toward consumers who are totally unconcerned with high res. The audiophile market is small, unprofitable and pointless to a company like Apple, regardless what Neil Young says or Steve Jobs listened to in the privacy of his home.

[blu2]

Originally Posted by Gremal

But will be pointless given that 99.9% of music is produced for 16/44.1. Apple targets a mass consumer market, not an audiophile market. All their incredible success is due to their excellent margins and marketing toward consumers who are totally unconcerned with high res. The audiophile market is small, unprofitable and pointless to a company like Apple, regardless what Neil Young says or Steve Jobs listened to in the privacy of his home.

I'm not going to argue that the market is large.

But there was all sorts of signs last year that something might be in the works:

Statements from Warner:

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13645_3-20...olution-music/

The link I noted with comments from Universal:

http://www.cnn.com/2011/TECH/web/02/...sic/index.html

Earlier comments from Neil Young:

http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=172919

All this suggests that there may have been something in the works, and that Apple may well have been engaged. I can certainly see the possibility of using a 24-bit DAC on the next IPOD refresh.

Major industry support looks more dubious at this point of course, given recent comments from Neil.

In any case, I'm glad Neil is speaking up about the issue.

[Gremal]

Originally Posted by blu2

I'm not going to argue that the market is large.

But there was all sorts of signs last year that something might be in the works:

Statements from Warner:

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13645_3-20...olution-music/

The link I noted with comments from Universal:

http://www.cnn.com/2011/TECH/web/02/...sic/index.html

Earlier comments from Neil Young:

http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=172919

All this suggests that there may have been something in the works, and that Apple may well have been engaged. I can certainly see the possibility of using a 24-bit DAC on the next IPOD refresh.

Major industry support looks more dubious at this point of course, given recent comments from Neil.

In any case, I'm glad Neil is speaking up about the issue.

Neil has been speaking about high res audio all along, starting with an endorsement of SACD published in Sound and Vision more than 10 years ago. Nothing became of it. He says stuff. Journalists print it. But that will never change market realities.

Why would audiophiles get excited about a 24-bit DAC on an Ipod? We have better DACs on better gear. Pentatonic thinks cars, but I can't stand wind, road and other traffic noises in my car and I'm the target market. I mostly listen to the news when I'm driving even though my iPod is hooked up to my car stereo's aux input. No way Apple goes after such an iffy market. Apple thinks very big, not very small.

[Josh]

Originally Posted by Gremal

No way Apple goes after such an iffy market. Apple thinks very big, not very small.

I would modify that by saying, "No way Apple goes after such an iffy market, unless they think it can be made a big market."

Tablets were a tiny market, until the iPad. If Apple thinks they can do hi rez audio better than all previous attempts - to include SACD, DVD-A, and BD-Audio - they will put something out. Otherwise, you're right, they won't touch it.

[42041]

Making it a big market is not really an implementation problem IMO. The problem is that CD quality or even high-bitrate AAC/MP3 is good enough that most people wouldn't pay a premium for anything fancier. I don't suppose anything's stopping them from putting 24/96 downloads from iTunes but I wouldn't expect them to put much R&D into it.
At any rate, the audio quality of ipod/iphone's audio output is likely a distant concern after cost, power consumption, size/integration, etc. I'd take high quality CD audio over an iPod's "hi-res" audio.

[ZoetMB]

I see not the slightest interest in the mass market for high quality audio. If anything, quite the opposite is true: consumers have elected convenience over quality. Most people don't even bother to use variable bit rate or Apple Lossless when copying from CDs to their iPod libraries.

Futhermore, if you polled consumers, I suspect most would perceive that they're already listening to high quality audio "because it's digital."

Every attempt at high quality digital audio (DVD-A, SACD, Blu-ray audio) has been met with disinterest and failure. The only people really interested are at the really high-end: the kind of people who have $ multi-million home theatres and buy $40,000 speaker systems. And that is a very, very small market.

And I don't think 98% of people would be able to tell the difference between 44.1/16 and 96/24, especially if the 96/24 is sourced from a 44.1/16 CD, which it probably would be anyway. But even if it was sourced from a 96/24 master, listening on an iPod with a 1/2 watt amplifier and cheap earphones, most will never hear the difference and even if they could, most wouldn't care.

However, if Apple supplied the capability, I certainly wouldn't mind. Maybe Apple could get the album market moving again a bit by offering high-res versions, but only if you buy complete albums.

[Hammie]

Originally Posted by ZoetMB

[Show spoiler]I see not the slightest interest in the mass market for high quality audio. If anything, quite the opposite is true: consumers have elected convenience over quality. Most people don't even bother to use variable bit rate or Apple Lossless when copying from CDs to their iPod libraries.

Futhermore, if you polled consumers, I suspect most would perceive that they're already listening to high quality audio "because it's digital."

Every attempt at high quality digital audio (DVD-A, SACD, Blu-ray audio) has been met with disinterest and failure. The only people really interested are at the really high-end: the kind of people who have $ multi-million home theatres and buy $40,000 speaker systems. And that is a very, very small market.

[Show spoiler]And I don't think 98% of people would be able to tell the difference between 44.1/16 and 96/24, especially if the 96/24 is sourced from a 44.1/16 CD, which it probably would be anyway. But even if it was sourced from a 96/24 master, listening on an iPod with a 1/2 watt amplifier and cheap earphones, most will never hear the difference and even if they could, most wouldn't care.

However, if Apple supplied the capability, I certainly wouldn't mind. Maybe Apple could get the album market moving again a bit by offering high-res versions, but only if you buy complete albums.

I'm interested in hi-res digital audio and do NOT fit into this category.

My house was $125K and my speakers were around $10K...

[42041]

Originally Posted by Hammie

I'm interested in hi-res digital audio and do NOT fit into this category.

My house was $125K and my speakers were around $10K...

I hope that's supposed to be sarcasm...

[Gremal]

Originally Posted by Josh

I would modify that by saying, "No way Apple goes after such an iffy market, unless they think it can be made a big market."

Tablets were a tiny market, until the iPad. If Apple thinks they can do hi rez audio better than all previous attempts - to include SACD, DVD-A, and BD-Audio - they will put something out. Otherwise, you're right, they won't touch it.

The tablet market is destined to replace laptops the way laptops were destined to replace desktops and desktops were destined to replace typewriters. Apple puts a tremendous amount of market research into its decisions and doesn't go off on tangents. It will support niche markets but not to the point where it develops hardware for audiophiles. That's where companies like NuForce come in, with their 24 bit DACs and earbuds.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...8556710&sr=1-2

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...8556757&sr=1-1

Apple will never develop such products or new high-res standards that cause confusion among its existing customers whose hot buttons are convenience, ease of use and price. If Neil Young thinks Apple will ignore those three and go after something else, he's delusional--and I frankly enjoy his delusions in the form of songs like Sugar Mountain and I Am a Child. But it's not telling the whole story to quote his declarations about high res without putting it in the proper context...namely that he has been making many claims about high res digital audio for over a decade and only one--Archives on Blu-ray--has ever materialized.

And I just hope he sells enough copies of it to justify Vol II on Blu-ray!

[KrugerIndustrial]

I love iPod Classic. I wish they'd just give it a bigger HD and screen and I'd be happy. But I doubt even that'll happen as everything has to come with a touch screen, camera and microwave oven today.