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Old 12-17-2012, 07:46 PM   #201
miniroll32 miniroll32 is offline
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The Blu-ray has been uploaded in HD on YouTube.

Wait, wait... Here comes Lee Marvin! Thank god; he's always drunk and violent! - Homer Simpson
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Old 12-17-2012, 08:25 PM   #202
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^^^^Remember this is heavily compressed and 720p.
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Old 12-17-2012, 08:37 PM   #203
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonpie View Post
^^^^Remember this is heavily compressed and 720p.
It still looks fantastic though.

One thing I did notice is that Peter Auty's credit has been removed at the end of the film. Very strange indeed.
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Old 12-17-2012, 10:22 PM   #204
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wes_Bluray_Collector View Post
someone like you making statements like that proves that you do not care for how this was originally shown.
How it was originally shown? If you believe for one second that this animation looked better in 1982 just because that was the initial release, then you're absolutely wrong. This Blu-ray is lightyears ahead of how it looked on TV in the past.

TV's and broadcasting quality back then were just that; of their time. The Snowman looked as good as '82 tech could offer.
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Old 12-17-2012, 11:36 PM   #205
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Here are some screenshots. The BD is on the top. The NTSC DVD is on the bottom. The frames are an exact match.







I confess that I didn't believe the story that the BD has more picture on the sides and was trying to show that the 4:3 image had simply had the top and bottom cropped, but that isn't the case. While my preference is for the 4:3 version for composition and nostalgia, it is personal preference. Those that believe that the film had a theatrical release in 1.85:1 appear to have a point, because the BD definitely has more picture information at the sides: it seems to vary from shot to shot, which suggests that a certain amount of care was put into reframing The Snowman.
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Old 12-18-2012, 07:19 AM   #206
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff B View Post
Here are some screenshots. The BD is on the top. The NTSC DVD is on the bottom. The frames are an exact match.







I confess that I didn't believe the story that the BD has more picture on the sides and was trying to show that the 4:3 image had simply had the top and bottom cropped, but that isn't the case. While my preference is for the 4:3 version for composition and nostalgia, it is personal preference. Those that believe that the film had a theatrical release in 1.85:1 appear to have a point, because the BD definitely has more picture information at the sides: it seems to vary from shot to shot, which suggests that a certain amount of care was put into reframing The Snowman.
Thanks for the Screen grabs they are excellent.
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Old 12-18-2012, 09:31 AM   #207
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Yes I agree, they are excellent. I'm still undecided on whether to get this...

Why do some people insist on quoting large posts without editing them though.
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Old 12-18-2012, 04:54 PM   #208
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evilzedar View Post
Yes I agree, they are excellent. I'm still undecided on whether to get this...

Why do some people insist on quoting large posts without editing them though.
Don't think it makes much difference but i will remember in future.
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Old 12-18-2012, 06:16 PM   #209
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What is certainly shortsighted is that the studio didn't put both 4:3 and 16:9 versions on the disc, which takes up only 13.9 GB, because then everybody would be happy. There is almost certainly a high quality source with potential for 4:3 extraction available because all three introductions (which play through the opening credits until the boy wakes up) are in high quality 1.37:1, pillar-boxed in a 16:9 frame, even the Father Christmas one, which until now I had thought was composed in 16:9 for the Special Edition.

And it's not as if the studio has just reused an old source for the introductions because the Raymond Briggs one (top) is far cleaner than on the DVD (bottom) and it doesn't wobble about. In fact, the whole Blu-ray is far cleaner than the NTSC DVD and the color is much better.


Last edited by Jeff B; 12-21-2012 at 12:49 PM. Reason: I realized that the introductions were actually in 1.37:1.
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Old 12-18-2012, 07:53 PM   #210
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That as i have said before would have been a great idea, to have both releases. That then would have stopped some of the rather childish posts and made more people appreciate what a great film this is on Blu Ray regardless of the aspect ratio.
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Old 12-18-2012, 08:30 PM   #211
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miniroll32 View Post

One thing I did notice is that Peter Auty's credit has been removed at the end of the film. Very strange indeed.
Obviously then some effort/work went into this release to do something like that, but not to include the OAR version which I'm guessing is 1:85 (not 4:3) judging by the extra side bits on the Blu is shameful, and amateurish.
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Old 12-18-2012, 08:49 PM   #212
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff B View Post
Where did you get the top image from? It looks fantastic!
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Old 12-18-2012, 08:56 PM   #213
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miniroll32 View Post
Where did you get the top image from? It looks fantastic!
Hi. The image on the top is from the Raymond Briggs introduction from the Blu-ray. It is found in the extras. The image on the bottom is from the NTSC DVD.

Yes. It looks good. The picture quality on the Blu-ray is considerably higher.

EDIT: Oh, and about Peter Auty's credit, Wikipedia says (and I seem to remember) that he wasn't originally credited but that a credit was added for the 20th anniversary version. Perhaps the source for the Blu-ray was not the same as the source for the 20th anniversary version.

EDIT:

I am now sure that the sources of the BD and the 20th anniversary (PAL) DVD are different. That is why Peter Auty's credit is missing. The credits at the end are different.



The framing is strikingly different too, so The Snowman was reframed for 16:9 twice. Believe it or not this is the same frame. The BD is on top and the PAL DVD is underneath.


Last edited by Jeff B; 12-19-2012 at 01:55 PM. Reason: fixed picture
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Old 12-18-2012, 10:47 PM   #214
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EDIT: false impressions from distorted screen grab.
The opinions above are my own and not those of my clients.
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Last edited by David M; 12-19-2012 at 02:13 PM.
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Old 12-19-2012, 07:53 AM   #215
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyris View Post
Interesting: distorting the picture to avoid cropping details off the top and bottom. That's pretty strong evidence to support the theory that it was framed for 4:3 primarily (exclusively?) and that the widescreen presentations are incorrect, anyone with even a basic eye for composition can attest to that (the shot of the two by the fire is another). Who is demanding that it be distorted in this way?

How many shots have been squashed?

Pretty sad. I have fond memories of watching this on UK TV when I was little (WITH the top and bottom present I might add)
Looks like the info i had was wrong and 4:3 it is. The Blu still looks stunning but should have been presented in the correct ration. As you say someone must be demanding it is presented this way.
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Old 12-19-2012, 09:35 AM   #216
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyris View Post
Interesting: distorting the picture to avoid cropping details off the top and bottom. That's pretty strong evidence to support the theory that it was framed for 4:3 primarily (exclusively?) and that the widescreen presentations are incorrect, anyone with even a basic eye for composition can attest to that (the shot of the two by the fire is another). Who is demanding that it be distorted in this way?

How many shots have been squashed?

Pretty sad. I have fond memories of watching this on UK TV when I was little (WITH the top and bottom present I might add)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonpie View Post
Looks like the info i had was wrong and 4:3 it is. The Blu still looks stunning but should have been presented in the correct ration. As you say someone must be demanding it is presented this way.
wait a moment, are these stretched pictures from the Blu-ray?
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Old 12-19-2012, 10:01 AM   #217
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I had to flick back between the embedded video and the actual screencaps, but the botton and top ones Jeff B posted do not match the one on the video. Note the grandfather clock. On the 'Blu-Ray' screencap, it's streched. Yet on the video fron the Blu-Ray itself, it isn't, with a bit of extra space to the left of it.

However, it doesn't match the framing at the bottom. The frame seems to be a bit lower so the father character's slippers are visible. But there's no visible distortion in the actual scene. So either the 'BD' screenshot was doctored to try and defend the '4:3 is and always will be OAR' defense (If it was shown theatrically also, the widescreen ratio may be correct), or the screenshots were confused.
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Old 12-19-2012, 11:19 AM   #218
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According to Barbossa, the VHS had the complete 4:3 frame, ie includes the bits at the side missing on the R1 DVD which is on the blu;

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barbossa View Post
Wrong once again.

I've just dug out my original VHS tape and the side cropping (as per the previous screenshots) is not evident,
[Show spoiler]therefore even the original DVD release isn't perfect in terms of framing. However, the side cropping on that release is far LESS intrusive than the obnoxious and unnecessary top and bottom cropping on the 30th Anniversary release.
So that says to me that it was animated for the 4:3 frame. The debate is whether it was animated with the plan of cropping to 1.85:1 for the cinema run (which never happened), then all subsequent home video releases to fill the full TV screen, ie 4:3. Apparently Disney's "The Aristocats" was produced this way.

But to answer those questions, you'd have to ask someone who worked on the film.

.
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Old 12-19-2012, 01:34 PM   #219
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Quote:
Note the grandfather clock. On the 'Blu-Ray' screencap, it's streched. Yet on the video fron the Blu-Ray itself, it isn't, with a bit of extra space to the left of it.
The screen captures aren't even accurate? Why post them then? Can someone clarify?

Well, if there are no proper screen grabs, I'll need to wait until I have the disc here.
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Old 12-19-2012, 01:50 PM   #220
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BD3Dfan View Post
IYet on the video fron the Blu-Ray itself, it isn't, with a bit of extra space to the left of it.
My apologies, guys. I forgot to remove one line in the script. I fixed that picture in my post.

Sorry again!

EDIT: Okay, here some four-way comparisons that I have been working on.

PAL SE=20th anniversary DVD
All three introductions on the BD were in 1.37:1.







Once again, the frames are exact.

Last edited by Jeff B; 12-21-2012 at 12:41 PM. Reason: added four-way comparisons
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