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Old 02-14-2013, 12:09 AM   #1
nic727 nic727 is offline
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Jan 2013
Default 4K TV = 4K Bluray player?

Hi,

I read here http://www.clubic.com/television-tv/...eleviseur.html (it's in french) that some movies were filmed in 4K, but played in 1080p. They create the "4K Bluray Disc" and I want to know if we will need another bluray player or not.

Do you know if The Hobbit will be available in 4K?

thx
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Old 02-14-2013, 12:15 AM   #2
fitprod fitprod is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nic727 View Post
Hi,

I read here http://www.clubic.com/television-tv/...eleviseur.html (it's in french) that some movies were filmed in 4K, but played in 1080p. They create the "4K Bluray Disc" and I want to know if we will need another bluray player or not.

Do you know if The Hobbit will be available in 4K?

thx
You will need a new 4K Blu-ray player, which is probably 12-24 month off.

I'm sure if the studios back the format, The Hobbit will show up in 4K eventually. (Who knows maybe Sony will pay Warner to eventually use it on their new 4K hard drive solution, but I doubt it. The Hobbit is not a killer app that can sell $20,000 TVs, I don't know if anything can.)

fitprod
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Old 02-14-2013, 02:00 AM   #3
Anthony P Anthony P is offline
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none of us know yet how 4k will be distributed at home. That being said, even if 4K is added to the BD specs and there is 4k BD you would still need a new player. The same way that (except for the PS3) you needed a new player if you wanted to play a 3D movie.
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Old 02-14-2013, 02:03 AM   #4
jasonjl jasonjl is offline
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I have a feeling they're going to skip 4k physical format and go straight to 8k, probably a decade from now...like how 720p wasn't the Blu-ray format...but I might be dead wrong
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Old 02-14-2013, 04:57 AM   #5
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I'm sure a movie like Tron Legacy could be in 8k and look magnificent.

I wonder if 4k will be released with PS4 similar to how blu-ray was with PS3.

One of the big reasons Sony helped with the war with HD-DVD was lots of people had PS3's so they essentially had a blu-ray player. 360 didn't read HD-DVD you had to buy the add-on. I could see them doing the same with 4K potentially.
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Old 02-14-2013, 05:00 AM   #6
b00st b00st is offline
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there is no way the current laser will read 4k....so a new player will be required. and a receiver with 4k bypass or 4k capable also if you are sending signal through an AVR of some sort.

i can't see this coming anytime soon...sure The Hobbit will be on the list with the 48fps as well. but we will also need a FW upgrade or new gear for that as well. so this constant change is a little daunting on the current market. there are still people without HDTVs....believe it or not.
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Old 02-14-2013, 11:47 AM   #7
Nisei Nisei is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MasturB View Post
I'm sure a movie like Tron Legacy could be in 8k and look magnificent.
4K is already overkill for most home users so 8K is completely ridiculous. Or do they expect everyone to buy wall-sized TV sets to enjoy it?
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Old 02-14-2013, 11:49 PM   #8
42041 42041 is offline
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Originally Posted by MasturB View Post
I'm sure a movie like Tron Legacy could be in 8k and look magnificent.
Tron Legacy was shot with 1080p cameras.

The Hobbit was mastered in 2K. Re-rendering the movie at 4 times the resolution would likely be more trouble than it's worth it to the studios.
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Old 02-16-2013, 04:29 PM   #9
peterraes peterraes is offline
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Smile it's not overkill....

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Originally Posted by Nisei View Post
4K is already overkill for most home users so 8K is completely ridiculous. Or do they expect everyone to buy wall-sized TV sets to enjoy it?
4K will be mainly for home cinema fanatics,as most of them go for the best there is to view their movies,either on a verry large TV or a projector...the last is prefarable as you can easily go + 100" screen with 4K.
in fact...i dare say annyhting less then a 100" screen is pointless to get the benefit of the full resolution!
it all depends on your viewing distance,i have a viewing angle right now of 33,2 right now with THX recommending optimal 36....
But this is for 1080P...for 4K they even mention a max of 50 for a scope ratio screen (2:35:00)...
oh yes,before i forget..we had this meeting with projektor lined up for a showdown,one of them was the sony 4K...they streamed a 40 sec jap videopiece in native 4K2K.....this was on a 125" 1.0 gain screen (16:9)...i could NOT believe it and my jaw fell open...its that of a upgrade over 1080P.
im happy with 1080P but if 4K comes out and the price of the projektor is "doable"(im not rich)then i will jump on it and upgrade my current 90" screen to a 110" or more,no doubt whatsoever!

Last edited by peterraes; 02-16-2013 at 04:34 PM. Reason: wasnt finished when i posted
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Old 02-16-2013, 04:48 PM   #10
Marten Marten is offline
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Originally Posted by peterraes View Post
4K will be mainly for home cinema fanatics,as most of them go for the best there is to view their movies,either on a verry large TV or a projector...the last is prefarable as you can easily go + 100" screen with 4K.
in fact...i dare say annyhting less then a 100" screen is pointless to get the benefit of the full resolution!
it all depends on your viewing distance,i have a viewing angle right now of 33,2 right now with THX recommending optimal 36....
But this is for 1080P...for 4K they even mention a max of 50 for a scope ratio screen (2:35:00)...
oh yes,before i forget..we had this meeting with projektor lined up for a showdown,one of them was the sony 4K...they streamed a 40 sec jap videopiece in native 4K2K.....this was on a 125" 1.0 gain screen (16:9)...i could NOT believe it and my jaw fell open...its that of a upgrade over 1080P.
im happy with 1080P but if 4K comes out and the price of the projektor is "doable"(im not rich)then i will jump on it and upgrade my current 90" screen to a 110" or more,no doubt whatsoever!
I'm not a videophile by any means but I saw the Sharp 80" & 90" LCD TVs and I thought both could greatly benefit from higher resolution.
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Old 02-16-2013, 05:47 PM   #11
COLD_COBRA_ COLD_COBRA_ is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marten View Post
I'm not a videophile by any means but I saw the Sharp 80" & 90" LCD TVs and I thought both could greatly benefit from higher resolution.
those sharp tvs aren't that good to begin with, imo of course. They aren't the plasma master race, that's for sure.

Besides. 24k and 96k are the coolest. That is when we upgrade.

Last edited by COLD_COBRA_; 02-16-2013 at 07:28 PM.
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Old 02-16-2013, 05:54 PM   #12
Ernest Rister Ernest Rister is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nic727 View Post
Hi,

I read here http://www.clubic.com/television-tv/...eleviseur.html (it's in french) that some movies were filmed in 4K, but played in 1080p.
The original camera negatives for the Disney animated features are being scanned at 4k, but then down-rezzed and mastered in 2k for the actual Blu-Ray releases. 4k is a long way off, but Disney protected themselves by scanning the negatives at that resolution, and really, beyond that I can't imagine how - say - 8k is going to be perceptible by the human eye.
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Old 02-16-2013, 09:17 PM   #13
slimdude slimdude is offline
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Originally Posted by COLD_COBRA_ View Post
those sharp tvs aren't that good to begin with, imo of course.
They sure isn't! My 12 year old 32" CRT, looks better than a Sharp HDTV.

Last edited by slimdude; 02-16-2013 at 09:49 PM.
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Old 02-17-2013, 10:02 PM   #14
Blu-ray Fanatic Blu-ray Fanatic is offline
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Today I went to Best Buy to pick up an order but I also had to look at some other stuff in the Magnolia section. As I walked in, I noticed something different to my right. Sure enough it was a 84" Sony 4K tv! Only one word can describe it: PERFECTION. It just can't get any better than that. 4K makes 1080p look like a dvd.
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Old 02-17-2013, 10:23 PM   #15
JohnAV JohnAV is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blu-ray Fanatic View Post
Today I went to Best Buy to pick up an order but I also had to look at some other stuff in the Magnolia section. As I walked in, I noticed something different to my right. Sure enough it was a 84" Sony 4K tv! Only one word can describe it: PERFECTION. It just can't get any better than that. 4K makes 1080p look like a dvd.
I think you also noticed the improved depth perception with 4k source content on the 84" Sony, from what I saw 4K makes 3D not so useful.

For the time being most will have to get by with better quality 1080P BD's upscaled to 4K.
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Old 02-20-2013, 07:36 PM   #16
dib2 dib2 is offline
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Originally Posted by Anthony P View Post
none of us know yet how 4k will be distributed at home. That being said, even if 4K is added to the BD specs and there is 4k BD you would still need a new player. The same way that (except for the PS3) you needed a new player if you wanted to play a 3D movie.
Not True, There are 2 ways. The first will be downloadable/streaming, and then physical media (after the figure out how to make it harder for people to copy the disc) but there is space to get 4K video on a blu-ray disc. Sony projectors and TVs which upscale 1080p to 4K use data on the blu-ray disc so that the up-scaled version looks really good. So downloading will be first. Sony already has TVs with a player with about 10 movies on it. Then we will get some sort of physical media, but as many people try to say, "The end of physical media is near" no one with a high end system wants hic-ups in a server or internet provider to ruin their movie viewing experience. Even waiting for 25GB to download will take a long time for many people. As downloading and streaming get more popular ISP will need to charge more for that type of service when the lines get bogged down.
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Old 02-20-2013, 08:57 PM   #17
JohnAV JohnAV is offline
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Originally Posted by dib2 View Post
Not True, There are 2 ways. The first will be downloadable/streaming, and then physical media (after the figure out how to make it harder for people to copy the disc) but there is space to get 4K video on a blu-ray disc. Sony projectors and TVs which upscale 1080p to 4K use data on the blu-ray disc so that the up-scaled version looks really good. So downloading will be first. Sony already has TVs with a player with about 10 movies on it. Then we will get some sort of physical media, but as many people try to say, "The end of physical media is near" no one with a high end system wants hic-ups in a server or internet provider to ruin their movie viewing experience. Even waiting for 25GB to download will take a long time for many people. As downloading and streaming get more popular ISP will need to charge more for that type of service when the lines get bogged down.
The recent H.265 standard should make 1080P HD video streaming easier and could make even UHD (formerly known as 4K) streaming feasible whenever they get around to it. But to say categorically downloadable/streaming will be first over physical media, probably is a mistake. As with previous HD rollout, first you had the early HD players, then media became available, then as internet became more viable, grossly compressed video billed as HD became available.

So whats happening now, you have demo's with proto-UHD players, television networks tinkering with 4k and 8k recording and broadcasts, selection of physical media standards for UHD playback. From my perspective as resolutions go higher, it gets a lot more difficult to think about 4K playback as downloads or streaming as realistic, until consumers see a lot faster connectivity to their residences. From a operational standpoint its a lot more complicated then simply the ISP's providing faster pipes, consider what the source provider would have to do to their infrastructure and server farm. IMHO its either propriety 4k broadcasts or DRM'ed 4k optical media that will be first, not downloads/streaming subscriber services.
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Old 02-21-2013, 12:06 AM   #18
42041 42041 is offline
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Not True, There are 2 ways. The first will be downloadable/streaming, and then physical media (after the figure out how to make it harder for people to copy the disc) but there is space to get 4K video on a blu-ray disc.
You still need to decode it and display it. The PS3 could concievably be able to decode it since it has a pretty powerful CPU, though even that isn't guaranteed since H265 will likely be very compute intensive, but any player that uses a hardware decoder won't be able to do anything with a 4K stream.
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Old 02-21-2013, 12:40 AM   #19
Chevypower Chevypower is offline
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Originally Posted by Ernest Rister View Post
beyond that I can't imagine how - say - 8k is going to be perceptible by the human eye.
It won't be. But that's cos the eye isn't responsible for visual perception, just visual sensory input. Only the brain is responsible for perception (after the signals pass through the optic nerve, optic chiasm, and occipital lobes). Everyone has their own level of visual discrimination.
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Old 02-22-2013, 01:48 PM   #20
dib2 dib2 is offline
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Originally Posted by JohnAV View Post
The recent H.265 standard should make 1080P HD video streaming easier and could make even UHD (formerly known as 4K) streaming feasible whenever they get around to it. But to say categorically downloadable/streaming will be first over physical media, probably is a mistake.
Ok well I will tell Sony that's a mistake then. Because that is what their rep said.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnAV View Post
From a operational standpoint its a lot more complicated then simply the ISP's providing faster pipes, consider what the source provider would have to do to their infrastructure and server farm. IMHO its either propriety 4k broadcasts or DRM'ed 4k optical media that will be first, not downloads/streaming subscriber services.
Yes every streaming service has this issue but I also don't see any pipe getting bigger and faster to make streaming happen for everyone. I am sure you understand that more people streaming large amounts of data will mean more congestion so ISP will probably want more money too. I just like having the physical media. Then I don't have to worry about a business going out and losing all my movies too.

Last edited by dib2; 02-22-2013 at 01:52 PM.
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