Format neutral supporters wanted - from HD DVD to Blu-ray!

[SpikesBluBlooded]

Originally Posted by mdm1699

No one likes a zealot. I started a thread about Microsoft denying rumors that HD-DVD will be integrated into the X-BOX. That was closed. I own a PS3 and was educated on the subject here. I do not see myself buying a HD-DVD player. However, people should feel free to discuss the benefits of Blu-Ray. Don't the positives speak for themselves? I am starting to dislike this site. I find myself reading AVS for more constructive debates. If this site is for people who chose blu-ray blindly without understand what they purchased, then that should be clearly stated. I wish that some of the anal members would take a break from the site and go watch a blu-ray disc, so we all can enjoy and support the format "FREELY".

And MDM pretty much proves the point. QUIT PUSHING PEOPLE AWAY FROM THIS SITE WITH YOUR NARROW-MINDEDNESS!!! YOU ARE NOT HELPING!!!

[SpikesBluBlooded]

Originally Posted by SpikesBluBlooded

Hey Tron, anyway to change the title of your thread? Maybe something along the lines of "A Welcome to all Neutral Supporters" or something along those lines? We need to get a lot more support for your statement, and I think the title might be a bit misleading about what you're looking for... just a thought.

And Tron, I'm bringing this up again. There is a valid point that your thread title is a bit misleading...

[tron3]

"People, people....This is not the way to get healthy!!" - Dr. Marvin Monroe / The Simpsons

This thread started out nice with everyone understanding, but I came to realize why the controversy is starting. It means our message is getting out. Therefore viewed as a threat by some. Maybe campers of AVS and other forums are pointed to this thread and jumping in to stop defectors. Good luck. The more you tell people to stay away the closer they want to become.

Again, IN THE END WHEN ONLY ONE FORMAT WINS, we will have neutral supporters here from the fall out of the war. In the same token, when you come here, try to hang up your red cap. Do Christians go into the Jewish temples and try to convert them on their ground? NO! So don't do it here.

For the record, I have been a bit tempted by camp red if only for Transformers. But I haven't converted. How could I? I'm the frikken founder of this blu-blood club.

Don't even THINK about attacking us again. No current member of the blu-bloods start trouble. Our "tag" is mostly a fun status symbol.

Originally Posted by SpikesBluBlooded

And Tron, I'm bringing this up again. There is a valid point that your thread title is a bit misleading...

Already changed it, though it may not be reflected in the forum yet.

[SpikesBluBlooded]

Cool. Hopefully that will help stem the tide of angry posts...

[br85]

Originally Posted by BlackMR2

Ok... so would you be willing to submit yourself to an a/b test of the same movie on Blu ray vs HD DVD? say a movie like 300? Do you believe you could pick the picture quality difference? audio quality?

No. I couldn't, since they exactly the same encode, but that is not Blu-ray's fault, it is Warner's fault. I do believe I could pick the pcm vs. TruHD encode almost immediately, as long as there is some dynamic range and distinct background noise in the scene i am watching.

And I would submit myself to an a/b test of the PQ if the Video master was recompressed using a high VBR avc h.264 as opposed to the VC-1 that ther gave to the "too-little-capacity" HD DuD.

[cueman98]

Originally Posted by dialog_gvf

They are the SAME encoding. All Warner titles are. How could there be a difference?

You're clearly here to be an HD DVD advocate. Sit out a while and then see if you can take part.

Gary

The BIG difference is some warner blu-ray titles like the shining and 2001 have uncompressed PCM soundtracks. The hd-dvd versions don't have PCM audio.

[B-Man13]

Originally Posted by br85

I do believe I could pick the pcm vs. TruHD encode almost immediately, as long as there is some dynamic range and distinct background noise in the scene i am watching.

It would be helpful if you knew what you were talking about. TrueHD is a lossless audio codec and is therefore mathematically identical to the uncompressed source. This would be like saying you could hear a difference between FLAC and WAV. If the TrueHD track was resampled prior to conversion, then you may have a case. Also, if you have it hooked up via toslink (optical) the signal will be down-converted to a 1.5mbps stream, so you will hear a difference there. But if you have it connected with HDMI and the source for the PCM and TrueHD tracks are identical, then you won't hear any difference.

[Sonny]

Originally Posted by B-Man13

It would be helpful if you knew what you were talking about. TrueHD is a lossless audio codec and is therefore mathematically identical to the uncompressed source. This would be like saying you could hear a difference between FLAC and WAV. If the TrueHD track was resampled prior to conversion, then you may have a case. Also, if you have it hooked up via toslink (optical) the signal will be down-converted to a 1.5mbps stream, so you will hear a difference there. But if you have it connected with HDMI and the source for the PCM and TrueHD tracks are identical, then you won't hear any difference.

I can pick PCM audio out every time love it & hd-dud just does not have it

[br85]

Originally Posted by B-Man13

It would be helpful if you knew what you were talking about.

Then I am glad that I am indeed very helpful. I know a stinking lot about the subject.

TrueHD is a lossless audio codec and is therefore mathematically identical to the uncompressed source. This would be like saying you could hear a difference between FLAC and WAV. If the TrueHD track was resampled prior to conversion, then you may have a case. Also, if you have it hooked up via toslink (optical) the signal will be down-converted to a 1.5mbps stream, so you will hear a difference there. But if you have it connected with HDMI and the source for the PCM and TrueHD tracks are identical, then you won't hear any difference.

Yeah, well, first of all TrueHD is almost always resampled prior to conversion. Not because it has to be, but because for some reason they like to have less dynamic range. Personally I don't care, and that's not what I'm talking about.

I understand that they are (or should be if they're not resampled) mathematically identical on the disc, but it's about what comes out of your speakers, and that is always a very different case. It doesn't matter how great your system is, you can never suggest that the extra process required to unpack the TruHD signal can be achieved perfectly and without adding any latency to the process.

Think about a wav file that's been put in an ultra efficient zip file. Now imagine, without any prior unpacking, trying to get 5 channels of raw wav data at 24b/48khz in real time. Because that's essentialy what TruHD has to do, and it simply cannot reproduce the signal as it was meant to be unpacked.

Despite what you may have been told, those are the facts, and you really can hear the difference.

[SNAP]

I didnt know you were a rabbit........lol

QUOTE=Sonny;328646]I can pick PCM audio out every time love it & hd-dud just does not have it [/QUOTE]

[mdm1699]

Originally Posted by SNAP

I didnt know you were a rabbit........lol

QUOTE=Sonny;328646]I can pick PCM audio out every time love it & hd-dud just does not have it

[/QUOTE]

PCM does have more impact. Then again, maybe it's just louder. Just don't ask me to do a blind test.

[Draagonman]

I am a newbie here. I have what I have because sometimes I do live paycheck to paycheck and buy things in pieces, like speakers one month, subwoofer, next month, etc. I chose the xbox 360 for halo. added the hd dvd player a couple od months later. if the PS3 was comparable in price at the time i would have went with that. I am now saving enough money to buy the PS3, so I can have the movies I want in hidef. Will there ever be a time where there will not be competion? like D*tv & E*star, Xbox & PS, Broncos & Chiefs? I think both formats will be around for awhile until something cheaper comes around like maybe Flash memory. I think there are a lot of people like me that are not rich just trying to find the best deal possible. just my 2 cents

[SNAP]

You're right it does sound louder than True.....but I dont have a movie on both formats to do a blind test with.

Plus..I love bustin' on Sonny.

PCM does have more impact. Then again, maybe it's just louder. Just don't ask me to do a blind test. [/QUOTE]

[br85]

Originally Posted by mdm1699

PCM does have more impact. Then again, maybe it's just louder. Just don't ask me to do a blind test.

It is indeed "Just louder" as well as the other reasons I previously outlined. However, being "louder" is also an advantage, as stronger analog signals (which is what you are hearing) fed to amplifiers will result in lower Total Harmonic Distortion and they also lose less voltage when travelling through wiring, which means greater reproduction of the intended signal. Another 2c worth, but I'm afraid some of my terminology is just getting lost on so many of you. Let me know if you need further clarification on something I've said.

[Farscape1]

Originally Posted by SNAP

You're right it does sound louder than True.....but I dont have a movie on both formats to do a blind test with.

Plus..I love bustin' on Sonny.



PCM does have more impact. Then again, maybe it's just louder. Just don't ask me to do a blind test.

[/QUOTE]

Have you our anyone else compared it to DTS-MA or Dolby True HD... This will be interesting to hear, I currently have 2 receivers that will decode these but don't have any Blu-Rays yet with them.

[mdm1699]

Originally Posted by br85

PCM does have more impact. Then again, maybe it's just louder. Just don't ask me to do a blind test.

It is indeed "Just louder" as well as the other reasons I previously outlined. However, being "louder" is also an advantage, as stronger analog signals (which is what you are hearing) fed to amplifiers will result in lower Total Harmonic Distortion and they also lose less voltage when travelling through wiring, which means greater reproduction of the intended signal. Another 2c worth, but I'm afraid some of my terminology is just getting lost on so many of you. Let me know if you need further clarification on something I've said. [/QUOTE]

well geez . Do I have to take up Opera and Classical music to understand that? I am sure every Ferrari, Rolex, Pioneer, etc owner know how their purchases work. There is nothing I love more than a Gucci owner telling me how their bag was stitched.

[br85]

Originally Posted by Farscape1

Have you our anyone else compared it to DTS-MA or Dolby True HD... This will be interesting to hear, I currently have 2 receivers that will decode these but don't have any Blu-Rays yet with them.

Yet to test a DTS-MA signal out. All of my findings are from TruHD, which, while better than regular DD or DTS, still pails in comparison to the mighty PCM. My posts above explain why, but if you want I can explain what differences I can actually hear, let me know.

[SNAP]

I dont think my 300 does DTS-MA & True HD......But I believe my A20 does both.........I'll try a blind check. But I'm 50 now and the ears may not be as good as they used to be.

Have you our anyone else compared it to DTS-MA or Dolby True HD... This will be interesting to hear, I currently have 2 receivers that will decode these but don't have any Blu-Rays yet with them.[/QUOTE]

[br85]

well geez . Do I have to take up Opera and Classical music to understand that? I am sure every Ferrari, Rolex, Pioneer, etc owner know how their purchases work. There is nothing I love more than a Gucci owner telling me how their bag was stitched.

Yeah but I know lots of people with big flashy TVs with rca cables going out to 4 speakers (splitting red into back and front right, and white into front and back left) who think they have surround sound Not everyone knows the mechanics of it all. I have a flashy mobile phone, but I have no idea how it works. There are lots of people with home theatres that are the same.

[br85]

Originally Posted by SNAP

I dont think my 300 does DTS-MA & True HD......But I believe my A20 does both.........I'll try a blind check. But I'm 50 now and the ears may not be as good as they used to be.

Make sure you adjust the volume on the PCM so it doesn't trick you into thinking it sounds better. But don't worry, I think you'll still be able to tell the difference, even when the volume is the same. PCM just feels more "real". Less processing means more quality.