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Old 11-03-2007, 06:12 AM   #1
DJ Scotty DJ Scotty is offline
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Default Hello, Everyone! Having some serious issues...

Hello Everyone!

Wanted to introduce myself as a new member of the board, as well as a recently drafted soldier over the fence from standard definition optical media to high definition....it took some pondering between HD DVD and Blu ray, but due to, as you all know, a (what appears to be) potent collection of titles available now and to be in the future, my heart seems True Blu -- at least for now....

Unfortunately, my first experiences with this new technology have not been so exciting. I recently relocated with my significant other into a new apartment, and we jumped into Blu ray, as I mentioned, acquiring the Panasonic player and a new Onkyo TX-SR605 with onboard decoding of the new HD audio formats...along for the ride was also a new Sony 50" SXRD rear projection display. Being an absolute home theater hobbyist fanatic, I am thoroughly familiar with the ins and outs of standard DVD and its relating equipment (coaxial/optical connections, bitstream signals for Dolby Digital and DTS soundtracks, etc.)...however, I enlisted some help from a private recommended installer to assist me with the setup of the blu ray deck and receiver (and TV). Before I get into the issues I have been having with the software and what I find I don't care for so far, let me explain how everything is connected so perhaps someone could better understand the workings of the system and attempt to figure out if it happens to be anything in the "handshaking" behavior of the HDMI connections....

The Panasonic player is running HDMI OUT to the Onkyo's HDMI INPUT 1, and then there is an HDMI cable running from the receiver's HDMI OUT to the Sony display's HDMI input, so the audio and video can flow simultaneously. I SPECIFICALLY purchased this new receiver because I understand it has all the onboard decoding for the new formats, including Dolby TrueHD, Dolby Digital Plus, DTS HD and DTS HD Master Audio, and I prefer to have the amplifier/receiver decode and process the audio via a bitstream signal rather than have a player do it -- and, as I will explain later, and of course you all know, these second generation players just wont pass the HD soundtracks via bitstream, so I feel like that was a waste of money. At any rate, here are most of the issues I am having, along with their corresponding connection attributes:

I believe the display I purchased can accept 1080p signals, and the Panasonic's HDMI RESOLUTION control in the setup menu is set to 1080p -- so this should be giving me full 1080p resolution; however, I find that most of the discs that came in the box with the player, such as Pirates of the Caribbean and Fantastic 4 -- not to mention the two titles I have purchased on my own, Spider Man 3 and John Carpenter's Halloween -- just don't....well....look all that great. I was expecting jaw-dropping detail and resolution from 1080p material, and dont get me wrong -- the colors are rich and fantastic for the most part, and the black levels are spot-on and dark....it's just that the amount of grain and background noise these discs -- or player -- are exhibiting is quite dissapointing. Is there supposed to be this much fine grain running in the background of the films? The whispy, fog-ladened scenes in films like Pirates gets rather "blocky" looking on my Sony, not really exhibiting a jaw-dropping appearance....it seems only the really bright, colorful, outdoor sequences in HD films exhibit the clarity and detail which approaches what I expected of Blu ray; is this normal? Now, I KNOW for a fact that the player is set for 1080p video, so it should be sending the video 1080p to the TV....AND, the Panasonic's picture setting modes (which you owners would know) are set like this:

PICTURE is set to SOFT, which seems to eliminate SOME of the noise and grain from certain scenes....other modes like NORMAL, CINEMA or FINE look much worse in comparison...

The DNR setting is ON (I believe this is for digital video noise reduction), and I can actually see a difference in the background noise of a scene when I freeze it, leaving the setting ON....

I've tried the other settings, like USER, which lets you fine tune things like GAMMA, 3D NOISE REDUCTION and COLOR, but these settings, no matter how many times I play with them, just seem to make the picture worse....should I mess with these?

Now, on my Sony display, I have the picture settings on STANDARD, not VIVID, which is just too sharp and oversaturated, especially for my viewing distance (which I believe MAY be contributing to the grain problem from my sweet spot), and everything else is on factory defaults, like color, sharpness, hue, Picture Contrast (which is all the way up to MAX) and Automatic Iris (setting "2")....I read another thread on here where someone posted the "ideal" settings for a Sony rear projection set, and the numbers were different from this, so perhaps it's my set's levels; they haven't been calibrated. Could this be adding to the problem?

The installer who worked with me set all the Panasonic's audio outputs to BITSTREAM, unaware and uninformed that this player does not pass bitstream audio for the new codecs via HDMI -- more on that in a minute. Standard Dolby Digital and DTS tracks from DVD pass just fine via HDMI through the Onkyo, coming up on the display as "Dolby D" or "DTS" with the HDMI logo lit, as well. So I know that's correct. The problem comes into play with the new HD audio tracks -- I simply do not understand how this all works. It took me weeks of reading the manual and playing with the unit to figure out that the settings made in the DIGITAL AUDIO OUTPUT menu of the Panny's player actually affect the COAXIAL and OPTICAL jacks -- NOT the HDMI output. But this confused me even more, because under these DIGITAL AUDIO OUTPUT setting choices are, along with Dolby Digital and DTS, the new codecs -- Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby TrueHD, DTS HD (but not Master Audio; this unit does not support it at all)....so, my question becomes if these new formats can only be passed via HDMI, which I thought is how they worked, then why on Earth are they listed under the standard DIGITAL audio output that goes through coax and optical???

Alas, all settings were made to BITSTREAM here, and of course, I have DVD audio soundtracks being decoded by the receiver, but not the new HD tracks....when I switch the high definition soundtrack settings to PCM in the player, then it sends the PCM track of the soundtrack (Dolby TrueHD, etc.) through a multichannel signal to the receiver, whose front display then reads "HDMI/PCM/MULTICHANNEL"....the tracks actually sound louder and punchier this way, as I am assuming the player is decoding the track and sending it to the receiver over HDMI via PCM (hearing the actual "lossless" audio), HOWEVER, this is not how I wanted the system to run....I was looking forward to the "DTS MASTER" and "DOLBY TRUEHD" logos to illuminate on the Onkyo, like it does with DTS and Dolby Digital....thus, I keep everything on BITSTREAM now, and choose the UNCOMPRESSED PCM track on a Blu ray disc when given the option.

Case in point: When I watched Spider Man 3 last night, there was a choice for Dolby TrueHD as an English surround audio track -- I tried selecting it, watched my receiver do the flashing HDMI thing as it tried to handshake with the player, and then....just as I thought, the receiver dropped into regular Dolby Digital mode....not Dolby TrueHD. I switched to the Uncompressed PCM track instead. What is the deal with these "lossless" codecs? Are they really worth all this trouble? I know all about the firmware and software updates for these second generation machines, but it just seems so exhausting to go through; would a firmware update correct the issue with the player passing the signals via bitstream? Now, another question I have is regarding these "Uncompressed PCM" tracks...based on the way I have the system set up, with everything running through HDMI, am I hearing the "correct" audio stream when selecting these tracks off the discs? Like I said, I select the uncompressed track from the menu, press play, and my receiver reads "MULTICHANNEL" in the middle of the display, as a listening mode, and above it are the small lights which read "PCM", "HDMI" and "MULTICH"....I assumed this meant the receiver was actually receiving the PCM track and playing it back in a multichannel mode, but I want to make sure because usually "MULTICHANNEL" means you have the ANALOG inputs running to a decoding player, and mine is connected via HDMI. So am I actually hearing these uncompressed PCM tracks correctly like this?

Please see next post for the continuation of this thread...
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Old 11-03-2007, 06:13 AM   #2
DJ Scotty DJ Scotty is offline
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DTS Master Audio is another problem. I have been excited to experience this new format, being a diehard fan of DTS audio, but I sadly learned that this player does not even support the format, let alone decode it for playback. So, with Fox titles like Fantastic 4 where there is only a Master Audio track to select, I have to select it and watch as my receiver strips the core DTS track from the disc and play it back as some kind of "enhanced" DTS....the audio is okay, but I was expecting to experience this new audio format in all its resolution. When I switch the "DTS HD" audio selection in the Panasonic's menu to PCM instead of BITSTREAM, Fantastic 4's Master Audio track enters that MULTICHANNEL mode on my receiver (as the PCM tracks do) and the audio gets louder and more vibrant -- suggesting to me that the player is decoding the track and sending it PCM to the receiver. Again, though, this is not how I wanted to run the system...if I wanted to run multichannel signals to the receiver, I would not have invested in the TX-SR605, and instead would have kept my TX-SR600 and just ran the multichannel analog jacks between the player and receiver; I bought this unit for the onboard decoding. And thats another head scratcher: if the Panasonic unit does not even support DTS Master Audio, then why is Fantastic 4's Master Audio signal being processed by the player as "DTS-HD MULTICHANNEL"? Does the player automatically send a DTS HD signal instead of a DTS Master Audio signal, and is this the somewhat "enhanced" DTS mode I was told about that this player will pass instead of DTS Master Audio? And why is the Panasonic's audio display, when I press the onscreen prompt, reading "MULTI" after each HD track listing? With standard DVDs, the display reads "D. Digital 3/2/1 ch" but with Blu ray soundtracks, no matter what the track, it reads "TrueHD MULTICH" or "DTS HD MULTICH" or "LPCM MULTICH".....is this because no matter how I cut it, the player MUST decode the track internally? I assumed because the Onkyo receiver did HDMI 1.3a the Panasonic would be able to talk to it -- but is this Panasonic only 1.2?

Now, UPCONVERTING standard DVDs in another big problem I am having with this unit....as I mentioned, the player is set for 1080p output through HDMI, so that means that even standard DVD should be upconverted for that resolution, correct? Well, when I watch most standard def DVDs, the picture quality can be somewhat....well....atrocious, depending on the disc. Grain, dirt and all kinds of video artifacts wash over my regular DVDs when watching them through the HDMI 1080p selection -- dark, interior scenes look worse than they ever did on my old $100 Panasonic DVD player running 480P Progressive Scan; in dark sequences, there is an annoying video noise that runs in the background -- the only way I can reduce this noise is by selecting the SOFT setting on the player, which softens the picture but also gets rid of a lot of the grain. I have tried switching the resolution to 480P, 720P and even 1080i when watching regular DVDs, and 480p actually makes the films look a bit better than keeping it on 1080p. I simply cannot believe this. Is this because 1080p is magnifying and amplifying all the imperfections on the regular DVD discs? Could it be my seating position to the screen, which is pretty close? I have a 50" SXRD, and the seating position is six or so feet away. Could it be the HDMI cables connecting the system? Could it be the video processing inside the Onkyo which isnt really passing through 1080p and somehow adding some signal degredation somewhere? Some DVDs are really bad -- older films like The Exorcist or Twilight Zone: The Movie are almost unwatchable because of the grain that flickers in the background of the dark scenes when the setting is on 1080p for the HDMI output.

Are grainy standard def DVDs normal when upconverting them on one of these Blu ray decks? It's to the point that I am considering taking the $600 loss on the player and going out to replace it with a good standard upconverting DVD player, of which the familiar, easy and inviting codecs from Dolby Digital and DTS can still put a smile on my face...at least until all these HDMI/firmware bugs can be worked out of these things. If anyone could shed any light on any of these issues I am having, it would be greatly appreciated.

Thank You, and Looking Forward to Being a Blu ray Forum Member!!
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Old 11-03-2007, 06:25 AM   #3
Manco Manco is offline
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HOLY COW!

Did you copyright that thing??

Welcome aboard. Try to keep future posts to 1OO WORDS OR LESS!!



EDIT: DJ Scotty -- break your post up into concise, discrete questions and post them in the appropriate forum sections. You'll have better luck getting answers. This is just way too long to read through. Just post your salient points.
Only two kinds of people... Those that watch Blu-ray and those that don't know what they're missing. :D
Blu-ray: 35 | HD-DVD: DOA | I Do BLU!

Last edited by Manco; 11-03-2007 at 06:30 AM.
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Old 11-03-2007, 06:27 AM   #4
bdrex28 bdrex28 is offline
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Welcome to Blu-ray!

Blu-ray Titles: 42 and counting

PS3 ID: Kirium
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Old 11-03-2007, 06:27 AM   #5
Redrox Redrox is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manco View Post
HOLY COW!

Did you copyright that thing??

Welcome aboard. Try to keep future posts to 1OO WORDS OR LESS!!

LOL that's what I thought. I started reading this, but it is waaaay to long. No way I am going to read this whole thing, sorry.
If it's not Blu-ray, it's only High Definition.
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Old 11-03-2007, 06:28 AM   #6
Manco Manco is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redrox View Post
LOL that's what I thought. I started reading this, but it is waaaay to long. No way I am going to read this whole thing, sorry.
LOL!! I gave it shot just to make sure it wasn't a troll post!!!
Only two kinds of people... Those that watch Blu-ray and those that don't know what they're missing. :D
Blu-ray: 35 | HD-DVD: DOA | I Do BLU!
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Old 11-03-2007, 06:30 AM   #7
DJ Scotty DJ Scotty is offline
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Hey Guys,

Thanks so much for the welcome and the replies....

I understand this post is long, but it encompasses an entire battery of issues I am having with the technology, and if someone could take a few moments to read it over and address some things step by step, I would greatly appreciate it; future posts won't be nearly as long!

Thank You
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Old 11-03-2007, 06:34 AM   #8
Manco Manco is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ Scotty View Post
Hey Guys,

Thanks so much for the welcome and the replies....

I understand this post is long, but it encompasses an entire battery of issues I am having with the technology, and if someone could take a few moments to read it over and address some things step by step, I would greatly appreciate it; future posts won't be nearly as long!

Thank You
Lots of good people here who will be glad to assist. Just break this down into simple bullet points and post in the appropriate forum sections. Go to the "Forum" menu and look at the major forum topics. Then select a sub-topic to post under.

Honestly.... nobody will take the time to read through all this.
Only two kinds of people... Those that watch Blu-ray and those that don't know what they're missing. :D
Blu-ray: 35 | HD-DVD: DOA | I Do BLU!
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Old 11-03-2007, 06:38 AM   #9
kknight kknight is offline
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I would read it but it's late and I'm sleepy

Welcome to blu...
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Old 11-03-2007, 06:49 AM   #10
DJ Scotty DJ Scotty is offline
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Thanks again for all the welcomes, guys; much appreciated.

If there is anyone who could take a few moments when they have a chance -- I, too, are sleepy and it's late here -- to read my posts and the issues I am having, I would greatly, greatly appreciate it.

Thanks again!
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Old 11-03-2007, 06:54 AM   #11
Manco Manco is offline
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Scotty -- did you know a new Panasonic Blu-ray deck is due out in a few weeks that will be a Profile 1.1 player?? Did you just purchase your Panny unit??
Only two kinds of people... Those that watch Blu-ray and those that don't know what they're missing. :D
Blu-ray: 35 | HD-DVD: DOA | I Do BLU!
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Old 11-03-2007, 09:48 PM   #12
clyon clyon is offline
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Ok for your tv, you know the model #, the older sxrd (xbr1) was 1080i.
You need to do some calibration on your tv, it's all messed up:


for the hdmi port for the bluray set-up:

Custom mode

Iris: Auto2 also try Auto1, I like Auto2 it gives me better blacks & more natural skin colors

Picture: 60

Brightness: 56

Color: 52 this will be a little diffrent on your tv

HUE: R2 this will be a little difrent on your tv

color temp: Warm1 this could be warm2 on your tv, on my tv warm2 adds more shadow detail but it also adds a washed out look in the blacks & colors.

Sharpness: 4

Noise Reduction: OFF

DRC mode: default locked on High Density

DRC Paleltte: default auto locked

Adavanced Setting:

Black Corrector: OFF

Gamma: Low adds shadow detail

Clear White: OFF

Live Color: OFF

White Balance: I can not do that one, it will be diffrent from tv to tv, 'Gain' is for adjusting the white 'Bias' is for Adjusting the Blacks

Detail Enhancer: Med This will add depth & 3d pop to Blu rays It will not add anything to dvd's (the Low setting does Not do 'it')

Edge Enhancer: OFF


Upscaling DVD's, some dvd's will look great some just OK & after you have seen Blu Ray your dvd'd will never be the same. It all depends on the dvd, some discs are sooo much better then others. I just started to rewatch my dvd's of SG-1 season 1 looks like crap but I put in season 10, it is like night & days.

Audio, that all gives me a headache, KISS (KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID), I am happy just using Toslink, most of the time.
'A verbal agreement is as good as the paper it is writen on'

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Old 11-03-2007, 09:54 PM   #13
DJ Scotty DJ Scotty is offline
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Thanks so much for your time to explain a lot of this to me; I will continue searching for answers on the audio side of things, as that is more important to me, slightly, that video is....but sorry about giving you a headache over it!

I figured that's what it was all about in terms of upscaling the DVDs---that some discs just wont look all that great and next to Blu ray they will probably look like complete asscrack, but I needed to be sure...some DVDs, though, just look really, really bad with a ton of noise and grain in the background...is there ANY way on the Panasonic player to reduce this aside from switching on the SOFT picture mode?

I am going to go into the setup menus now of my system, and set them to what you outline above and get back to you with the results....thanks again!

BTW.....you weren't calling me stupid, were you?
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Old 11-03-2007, 09:59 PM   #14
theknub theknub is offline
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scotty, first this is a very long post. a lot of the questions you have are very standard and can often be found by doing a forum search.

quick question on the player. when did you purchase it? if you're still in your return period i would prob return it and try to get the new panny player that just came out.

now, what t.v. do you have? as you prob know if you searched, grain is an inherent part of film. so, it will always be there (unless shot digitaly which opens a new can of worms). what is your viewing distance? i have a 50" and i'm ~7 ft away and have no complaints in that regard. in regards to some of your settings, they don't sound correct. it sound like iris is set too high, along with contrast, and sharpness prob should be turned down just to start. i'd first attempt to run a color level test on your set. you can do this with any sony disc by typing in 7669 at the main menu. paidgeek has posted instructions on how to calibrate properly somewhere on these boards. if you do a search of his posts you should find instructions.

as for the audio, if you stick with the current panny player you have to set it to output as pcm (at least for blu-ray). sorry, that's how it is.

as for upconversion, it is prob related to the t.v. and calibration between the two units. i'd reccomend calibrating before worrying much about this.
:)

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-Girls hang out, apply make-up, and have long talks in the bathroom. Men do not.

-...blacking out is, as Hemingway pointed out, a way of experiencing the great mystery of death, without dying.

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Old 11-03-2007, 09:59 PM   #15
DJ Scotty DJ Scotty is offline
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"Ok for your tv, you know the model #, the older sxrd (xbr1) was 1080i.
You need to do some calibration on your tv, it's all messed up"

Clyon,

Wanted to address this question for you too, as I had forgotten to in the last post to you; I believe I have the 50" SXRD A2020 --- I was told this was a 1080p set, and it does display "1080p" when I hit the display button on the remote when watching Blu rays and DVDs on the Blu ray player....As for the calibrations being all messed up, I am going to do your suggested adjustments now....
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Old 11-03-2007, 10:02 PM   #16
theknub theknub is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ Scotty View Post
"Ok for your tv, you know the model #, the older sxrd (xbr1) was 1080i.
You need to do some calibration on your tv, it's all messed up"

Clyon,

Wanted to address this question for you too, as I had forgotten to in the last post to you; I believe I have the 50" SXRD A2020 --- I was told this was a 1080p set, and it does display "1080p" when I hit the display button on the remote when watching Blu rays and DVDs on the Blu ray player....As for the calibrations being all messed up, I am going to do your suggested adjustments now....
scotty, here is a link to the review of a previous version of the a2020. while i have no experience with the 2020, a number of our members do. but, as a starting off point and assuming that not much has changed, the settings in this link have been regarded as very good and are a good jumping off point. http://reviews.cnet.com/9601-4_7-0-4...sageID=2506536
:)

Sony KDF-50E2000, Yamaha RX-V1700, Samsung BD-P1000, PS3 60GB, B&W 602 S2 fronts, B&W CC6 center, B&W 601 S2 rears, M&K-125 sub

-Girls hang out, apply make-up, and have long talks in the bathroom. Men do not.

-...blacking out is, as Hemingway pointed out, a way of experiencing the great mystery of death, without dying.

-december BD's- 5/ warner 3... warner total ~15
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Old 11-03-2007, 10:09 PM   #17
DJ Scotty DJ Scotty is offline
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scotty, first this is a very long post. a lot of the questions you have are very standard and can often be found by doing a forum search.

Hi Knub, and thanks for taking the time to reply...I realize this is a very long post, and I appreciate anyone taking a few moments to read it and reply to it; I truly do. I needed many things addressed, and figured this would be the best way.

quick question on the player. when did you purchase it? if you're still in your return period i would prob return it and try to get the new panny player that just came out.

We purchased the player in the beginning of October, and according to the retail store we bought from, we are past the return period, so I am stuck with this second generation player...is there ANY way I can get some firmware updates for this machine now?

now, what t.v. do you have?

I have a Sony SXRD 50" rear projection, I believe it's an A2020, or in that family....

as you prob know if you searched, grain is an inherent part of film. so, it will always be there (unless shot digitaly which opens a new can of worms).

I understand grain is inherent in film; but what I have been talking about has been an excessive amount of grain that doesn't seem normal for 1080p signals, no less...


what is your viewing distance? i have a 50" and i'm ~7 ft away and have no complaints in that regard.

My viewing distance, which you could have found out from my post, is about six feet from the screen, perhaps a tad less -- so Im about an inch closer than you, and this screen is totally hurting our eyes.


in regards to some of your settings, they don't sound correct. it sound like iris is set too high, along with contrast, and sharpness prob should be turned down just to start. i'd first attempt to run a color level test on your set. you can do this with any sony disc by typing in 7669 at the main menu. paidgeek has posted instructions on how to calibrate properly somewhere on these boards. if you do a search of his posts you should find instructions.

Thank you; Im going to attempt this shortly. I figured the settings were off.

as for the audio, if you stick with the current panny player you have to set it to output as pcm (at least for blu-ray). sorry, that's how it is.

Now this breaks my heart and concerns me...I SPECIFICALLY puchased this Onkyo receiver because it can decode all the new HD formats, and now I cannot even pass them bitstream because of this player....I wish I would have known...you see, though, I am STILL getting audio passed to the receiver when the high definition formats (Dolby TrueHD, DTS HD, etc.) are set to BITSTREAM in the Panasonic's DIGITAL AUDIO OUTPUT menu....they're just not the native, true HD signals....more like some kind of "enhanced" Dolby Digital and DTS; if these DIGITAL AUDIO OUTPUT settings on the player only affect COAXIAL and OPTICAL connections, not HDMI, then why are the soundtracks changing and sounding different from the high definition discs when I change the settings in the Panny to PCM/Bitstream? Should this not affect HDMI connections?

as for upconversion, it is prob related to the t.v. and calibration between the two units. i'd reccomend calibrating before worrying much about this.

I will do so and report back what I find.
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Old 11-03-2007, 10:11 PM   #18
DJ Scotty DJ Scotty is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theknub View Post
scotty, here is a link to the review of a previous version of the a2020. while i have no experience with the 2020, a number of our members do. but, as a starting off point and assuming that not much has changed, the settings in this link have been regarded as very good and are a good jumping off point. http://reviews.cnet.com/9601-4_7-0-4...sageID=2506536
Thank you.
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Old 11-03-2007, 10:32 PM   #19
PSA1 PSA1 is offline
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First, go here, http://www.videouniversity.com/tvbars2.shtml
read it so you know how to do basic calibration, use any Sony Blu-ray movie, when the menu pop up, press 7669, this will go to the color bars so you can calibrate your TV.
Second, understand that grain is part of film, Blu-ray design to faitfully reproduced what you see at the theater so accept the grain, now if you could watch the same movie with another setup and see that there are less grain on the other setup then something could be wrong with your TV or BR player or cable.
No BR could decoded or stream DTS MA right now so you just have to wait for firmware upgrade or not.
Those movies that you saw have very little grain, I wonder if you are confuse grain and video noise, if it is video noise then something is wrong.
Don't use other settings and try it on your set, all TV are different even the same model, you must use the color bars like I mentioned above to calibrate.
I would turn off all NR on your set, there are no noise in BR, just grain on certain movies unless it is a bad transfer.
Don't feel bad about not getting bitstream from your player, even if it could, I doubt that you could hear the difference between your player decoding or your receiver decoding.

Last edited by PSA1; 11-03-2007 at 10:35 PM.
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Old 11-03-2007, 10:52 PM   #20
DJ Scotty DJ Scotty is offline
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First, go here, http://www.videouniversity.com/tvbars2.shtml
read it so you know how to do basic calibration, use any Sony Blu-ray movie, when the menu pop up, press 7669, this will go to the color bars so you can calibrate your TV.


Thanks, PSA....I will do this just as soon as I have a free moment...

Second, understand that grain is part of film, Blu-ray design to faitfully reproduced what you see at the theater so accept the grain, now if you could watch the same movie with another setup and see that there are less grain on the other setup then something could be wrong with your TV or BR player or cable.

I totally, as I stated to the member in an above post, understand that grain is part of film -- completely. But I had gone into the high definition jump with the expectations that the films would be smoother and more organic than DVD's PQ -- something that dissapointed me a little on titles like Pirates where a whispy, jittery video noise introduced itself during foggy sequences and such...

No BR could decoded or stream DTS MA right now so you just have to wait for firmware upgrade or not.

So I was told, but I also heard that the new Samsung Blu ray deck that just came out (the 1400) can send all signals -- INCLUDING DTS HD Master Audio -- via bitstream...do you know anything else about this?

Those movies that you saw have very little grain, I wonder if you are confuse grain and video noise, if it is video noise then something is wrong.

I could indeed be confusing it; what I take as grain I also take as video noise when it becomes excessive -- now dont get me wrong, Blu ray discs like Fantastic 4 and Spider Man 3 looked GOOD -- the deep colors actually looked fantastic -- but there were moments where you can see some pixelation and a fine grain running in the background -- this is probably normal, as you say, and has something to do with my seating position relative to the screen?

Don't use other settings

What do you mean -- other settings on the Blu ray player?

and try it on your set, all TV are different even the same model, you must use the color bars like I mentioned above to calibrate.

Okay.

I would turn off all NR on your set, there are no noise in BR, just grain on certain movies unless it is a bad transfer.

Do you mean turn off the "DNR" control in the PANASONIC's video menu? This seemed to reduce some of the background "flicker" in some films....

Don't feel bad about not getting bitstream from your player, even if it could, I doubt that you could hear the difference between your player decoding or your receiver decoding.

I understand....I just WANTED, when I bought into this, to hear the high definition audio tracks as they were decoded through the receiver and then output to the speakers in a linear, bitstream fashion -- as I did for all those years with standard DVD (via an optical or coax connection). Is there any firmware upgrade for this Panasonic player to output the streams in bitstream?

Thanks so much for your continued help!
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