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Old 02-10-2016, 09:08 PM   #1
CYMBOL CYMBOL is offline
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Default Those with Atmos - any great benefit from matrixed sources?

Hi guys,

Just wondering, for those with Atmos speakers/receiver, I've read that 5.1 will matrix into Atmos (kind of like 5.1 going into 7.1).

Do you have just front, or front and rear Atmos speakers?

Does it work well? I'm sure it's not the same as true Atmos, but does it still sound good... better?

I'm considering getting Atmos speakers. Obviously, there aren't tons of discs, but I'd still consider getting them if audio matrixed into them well.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.
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Old 02-10-2016, 09:44 PM   #2
samlop10 samlop10 is offline
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I've had mine for about 6 months now and from what I have noticed it really just depends on the movie. If it's one with a lot of atmospheric sounds (wind, lighting, rain, rumbles, birds chirping in the distance, etc.) then the upmixer usually does do a good job of bringing those sounds to the height layer. It also does this for music if it is playing in the side surrounds (which is the case for most movies). This is not the case for discreet sounds, however, since these are included for one specific location only. For example, if you hear the 5.1 track of Gravity with an upmixer in an Atmos setup, it will sound nowhere near as good or precise as the actual Atmos track, since most of it consists of voices panning around (emanating from one specific location), and other discreet sounds from the soundtrack and objects in the film. But, for example, if you play The Hunger Games: Catching Fire, it does expand a decent amount of the sound to the height layer since it has a lot of atmospheric sounds like (the after mentioned) birds chirping, being underwater, voices from a PA system, etc.

My current receiver is a Yamaha, I tried the DSP and Dolby Surround modes and I found I preferred the DSP-standard rather than Dolby Surround (both are upmixers that use the height layer if it is available).
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Old 02-11-2016, 01:16 PM   #3
CYMBOL CYMBOL is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samlop10 View Post
I've had mine for about 6 months now and from what I have noticed it really just depends on the movie. If it's one with a lot of atmospheric sounds (wind, lighting, rain, rumbles, birds chirping in the distance, etc.) then the upmixer usually does do a good job of bringing those sounds to the height layer. It also does this for music if it is playing in the side surrounds (which is the case for most movies). This is not the case for discreet sounds, however, since these are included for one specific location only. For example, if you hear the 5.1 track of Gravity with an upmixer in an Atmos setup, it will sound nowhere near as good or precise as the actual Atmos track, since most of it consists of voices panning around (emanating from one specific location), and other discreet sounds from the soundtrack and objects in the film. But, for example, if you play The Hunger Games: Catching Fire, it does expand a decent amount of the sound to the height layer since it has a lot of atmospheric sounds like (the after mentioned) birds chirping, being underwater, voices from a PA system, etc.

My current receiver is a Yamaha, I tried the DSP and Dolby Surround modes and I found I preferred the DSP-standard rather than Dolby Surround (both are upmixers that use the height layer if it is available).
Very interesting. Thanks!

Btw, how about music? Does it get upmixed, and if so, is it a good or bad thing?

Thanks again.
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Old 02-11-2016, 02:03 PM   #4
Brett C Brett C is offline
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Check out the Atmos thread, Others and myself have discussed this topic quite a bit.
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Old 02-12-2016, 02:34 AM   #5
CYMBOL CYMBOL is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brett C View Post
Check out the Atmos thread, Others and myself have discussed this topic quite a bit.
Yeah, i looked through it. On page 43 someone asked mu question... 5 pages later no one had answered him. I was hoping to not have to skim 100 pages of history. Just wanted a couple of quick impressions. I'll keep looking. Thanks.
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Old 02-12-2016, 04:45 AM   #6
slimdude slimdude is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CYMBOL View Post
Very interesting. Thanks!

Btw, how about music? Does it get upmixed, and if so, is it a good or bad thing?

Thanks again.
Dolby Atmos was specifically created for sound effects in movies, rather than music. Usually when people are listening to music at home, or in a vehicle, they are doing other things in the meantime, not sitting in a sweet spot on a sofa listening to music for a couple of hours or more, as if they're watching a movie.

Last edited by slimdude; 02-12-2016 at 02:00 PM.
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Old 02-12-2016, 02:54 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slimdude View Post
Dolby Atmos was specifically created for sound effects in movies, rather than music. Usually when people are listening to music at home, or in a vehicle, they are doing other things in the meantime, not sitting in a sweet spot on a sofa listening to music for a couple of hours or more, as if they're watching a movie.
Speak for yourself That's exactly how I listen to music.
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Old 02-12-2016, 03:07 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CYMBOL View Post
Very interesting. Thanks!

Btw, how about music? Does it get upmixed, and if so, is it a good or bad thing?

Thanks again.
You've actually brought up a good question...not upmixing - but the possible development of Atmos music? In sound-staging one of the most difficult aspects is depth. There was a presentation using Wilson Audio XLF's for the front and Sabrinas in the rear. Here's a link to the article
http://www.theabsolutesound.com/arti...t-at-js-audio/

As the article states - this was not about sonic trickery, or sound effects, but to immerse the listener in the atmosphere of the event. I wonder could Atmos be used in subtle ways to re-create the musical event? Just putting it out there
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Old 02-12-2016, 03:36 PM   #9
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I've found that disc in Dolby True HD do have more matrixed into the Atmos layer. I watched THE ENTITY and there is a scene where green pulsing lights fly over the heads of the characters - those sounds are pronounced in the Atmos channel. The film is in 5.1 and was never mixed for Atmos but it makes for a great demo.
Another by chance upmix is in the SPACE: 1999 Yr 2 Network release. The mono TV series was re-mixed for 5.1. In certain episodes the Eagle spaceships fly into the surrounds and even the Atmos channel. Never planned by it up-mixes very well.
In STAR TREK THE MOTION PICURE towards the end there are "lightening bolts" that crack in the Atmos channel.
In the new remaster of Spartacus rain is heard.

I've noted all this due to a speaker review I've been working on.
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Old 02-12-2016, 06:07 PM   #10
CYMBOL CYMBOL is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slimdude View Post
Dolby Atmos was specifically created for sound effects in movies, rather than music. Usually when people are listening to music at home, or in a vehicle, they are doing other things in the meantime, not sitting in a sweet spot on a sofa listening to music for a couple of hours or more, as if they're watching a movie.
I listen to music in simulated surround all the time. I love hearing a background singers or choir, etc spread into the rear speakers and fill the room. Or musical instruments or effects lose their focal location. So cool when chimes are coming from no where and everywhere. I love hearing a crowd fill the room on live performances.

I remember long ago that music started being mixed in 5.1. It sounded amazing. Unfortunately, it never really took off. Most you could hope for was a live show in 5.1 most times.

But i still love to sit and listen and read the news on my phone while music plays. Or have friends over for drinks and have the music turned down, yet fill the room.

If Atmos could extend that, I'd be interested to hear.

I'm interested in hearing how 5.1 upmixing, music (which is typically stereo at the source) and even video games.

Sorry you don't use your sound system the way I do. It was just a question.

Quote:
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Speak for yourself That's exactly how I listen to music.
I love it!
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Old 02-12-2016, 06:17 PM   #11
CYMBOL CYMBOL is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prerich View Post
You've actually brought up a good question...not upmixing - but the possible development of Atmos music? In sound-staging one of the most difficult aspects is depth. There was a presentation using Wilson Audio XLF's for the front and Sabrinas in the rear. Here's a link to the article
http://www.theabsolutesound.com/arti...t-at-js-audio/

As the article states - this was not about sonic trickery, or sound effects, but to immerse the listener in the atmosphere of the event. I wonder could Atmos be used in subtle ways to re-create the musical event? Just putting it out there
I would love to see this for more than just live events or classical music (although I'm a fan of both).

I'd like to see it added for lots of effects. A choral background, ambient sounds, chimes, vocal echo, or simply filling the room with extra sound.

I have little home for Atmos music after seeing 5.1 music never catch on. It's hard to remember sometimes that many people don't have home theaters or dabble with basic HTiB type sound systems and don't really care about all the bells and whistles.

For now, I'm guessing the most we can hope for is done cool upmixing effects when they randomly occur.

5.1 does a a pretty good job. I was hoping Atmos might extend that impression.
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Old 02-12-2016, 08:53 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CYMBOL View Post
Yeah, i looked through it. On page 43 someone asked mu question... 5 pages later no one had answered him. I was hoping to not have to skim 100 pages of history. Just wanted a couple of quick impressions. I'll keep looking. Thanks.
http://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.ph...postcount=1755
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Old 02-12-2016, 09:34 PM   #13
CYMBOL CYMBOL is offline
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Thank you very much. Appreciate it.
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Old 02-13-2016, 05:40 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slimdude View Post
Dolby Atmos was specifically created for sound effects in movies, rather than music. Usually when people are listening to music at home, or in a vehicle, they are doing other things in the meantime, not sitting in a sweet spot on a sofa listening to music for a couple of hours or more, as if they're watching a movie.
You hit a sore spot with me as well I love listening to my music in the sweet spot, how else is there to listen to music?i am listening to a mellow jazz group called Four Play, the DSU just separates all of the various sounds and instruments of this group in my room(let's not get into how you would hear this at a concert) I am just enjoying each sound as I hear it as well as the air between the instruments. In other words "to each his own" :whip What a great way to enjoy being off for the weekend
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Old 02-13-2016, 06:08 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by CYMBOL View Post
Hi guys,

Just wondering, for those with Atmos speakers/receiver, I've read that 5.1 will matrix into Atmos (kind of like 5.1 going into 7.1).

Do you have just front, or front and rear Atmos speakers?

Does it work well? I'm sure it's not the same as true Atmos, but does it still sound good... better?

I'm considering getting Atmos speakers. Obviously, there aren't tons of discs, but I'd still consider getting them if audio matrixed into them well.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.
I made a post, but I must have deleted it by mistake . My son would bring over his favorite CD'S, he loved to hear the back-up singers come out of my surrounds with my 5.1 setup. He says DSU just takes it to another level that he can't explain. He loves the way certain sounds are somewhat more distinct. It's like the music is in the room and not coming from any particular speaker sometimes. We have not sat down together to watch a movie yet. I have to gradually build him up to that experience with ATMOS!!! I will say go for it, and be your own judge of what you listen to and like. I am running 5.2.4 right now. that is FL,C,FR,RS,LS, Left Rear Height, Right Rear Height, L/R Front Height (aimed more to middle of room ) and 2 subwoofers.i am still experimenting with things, I am just having sssooo much fun with this thing!!!

Last edited by golden ears; 02-13-2016 at 06:22 PM.
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Old 02-13-2016, 08:04 PM   #16
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Atmos DSU is IIz on steroids.

Old news.
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Old 02-14-2016, 09:43 AM   #17
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I just bought a new receiver and atmos speakers. I would say yes and no. Yes, the sound is amazing. No, not many blu's release in atmos sound.

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Old 02-14-2016, 02:54 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schan1269 View Post
Atmos DSU is IIz on steroids.

Old news.
Old? Maybe.
Great? Absolutely!
6 + 3 = 9, but so does 5 + 4

The way you do things, is not always the only way to do them.
Respect other people's way of thinking.
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Old 02-15-2016, 02:13 AM   #19
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Not sure where to post this?? I was in my living room watching you-tube clips( just fooling around) when I noticed that my Roku 1 and 3 was showing on my phone. I went into my theater, and sure enough the Roku 3 was on, I cut on the AVR X4100 and LO and behold the You-Tube clip was playing in DSU glorious surround, HD picture as well. I don't know when i'll get back to my movies, I am just having the time of my life finding out what I can stream to my AVR
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Old 02-15-2016, 06:35 AM   #20
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DSU has only been on receivers for the last two generations, I would hardly call it old.
Pro-Logic IIz would let you do a 7.1 base plus two Front Height channels in the front of the room. DSU will expand a soundtrack up to 7.1.4, with the height layer in any of the Atmos approved locations. The DSU steering logic is not based on ProLogic, but was built from the ground-up. Completely different algorithms and animals altogether.
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