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Go Back   Blu-ray Forum > Audio > Receivers

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Old 03-22-2008, 02:29 AM   #1
AnimeOnBlu AnimeOnBlu is offline
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Default Faulty DTS-HD MA Decoder in Certain Receivers

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1008620
Despite the title, no one has reported any damaged speakers as a result of the pop noise.

http://www.areadvd.de/news/2008/2008...e_DTS-HD.shtml

http://www.areadvd.de/news/2008/2008...a_Update.shtml

(The last 2 links are German, so you can use http://babelfish.altavista.com/ to translate)

The problem goes into effect when Bitsteaming DTS-HD MA from a player (ex BD30) to certain receivers including:
Yamaha RX-V 1800/3800
Onkyo 605/705/805/885
Pioneer 91THX
Integra 8.8/9.8

The following movies exhibit this "pop" noise:
1408 (Import)
Golden Compass
The Fly
Chronos
Fantastic Four
Close Encounters of the Third Kind
Flight of the Phoenix
Master and Commander (Euro Version)

Supposedly, Onkyo is looking into this problem. Yamaha Germany has apparently issued a firmware update that is suppose to fix this issue (unconfirmed, waiting on confirmation from an avs poster), but Yamaha US has remained silent.

The second link explains how the decoder chip in the Onkyo's and Yamaha's were faulty.
Quote:
"DTS Global Product manager Ronny Katz confirms that the problem is caused by a faulty DTS Decoder Chip (IC) in the Receivers of the companies of Onkyo and Yamaha. Recievers from Denon, Pioneer and Sony, which uses a different DTS Decoder Chip are unaffected and has no difficulties bit-streaming the DTS-HD MA tracks from the titles concerned. DTS has a made a fix/update to their Encoding software which will address the problem by taking the faulty DTS Decoder Chip into consideration, thus avoiding the issue on future Blu-Ray releases. It is however unknown at this time, if the Recievers with the faulty DTS Decoder chips can be fixed to work with the current DTS-MA discs by firmware update.
I can confirm this problem first hand with my Yamaha 3800 and and the Fly. The pop is significant, even when the db level is very low.

I hope anyone reading this and experiences this "POP" noise contacts Onkyo or Yamaha in hopes that if they receive enough complaints, they will able to rectify this problem quickly.

Thanks to the people at avs (especially shamus for starting the main thread for this problem) for bringing this problem to light.

(I searched the forum and noticed nothing about this problem being posted, so if it does exist elsewhere, please delete or merge this post. Thank you)
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Last edited by AnimeOnBlu; 03-23-2008 at 06:03 AM.
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Old 03-22-2008, 02:35 AM   #2
Zaphod Zaphod is offline
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Hmmm...interesting. I wonder if this is a warrantable issue. There was also that annoying "popping" noise when the Onkyo changed over to a PCM track.
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Old 03-23-2008, 04:03 PM   #3
dialog_gvf dialog_gvf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Deering
Hey Guys,

Thought I would chime in. I have experienced this 3 times now and will say there is no exaggeration at all. Anyone who hasn't experienced it will probably make light of it but the crack has more in common with a high powered rifle or firework going off in your room than a simple pop. All three times it has happened I thought for sure I blew something up in the room. I have had 2 speakers damaged from it, a center channel and a right main. All three times were with DTS-HD MA tracks. The first was the import of Hannibal Rising via the HD-A35, the next was 1408 via the A35 and then the latest being The Golden Compass via the BD30.

The cheap cable thing is not an issue. I am using Nordost HDMI interconnects all around. I am using the Onkyo Pro PR885 processor. Every time it happens it is fully repeatable. The same thing does not happen if I am playing back the DTS core or have it converted to PCM, so my guess is it is in the extension packet.

This is a VERY real problem and anyone that actually experiences will take it quite seriously after they almost **** their pants. If you are playing back and moderately high levels, you WILL KNOW without the slightest doubt that it has happened. Saying it could damage speakers is probably taking it lightly, I would worry about amplifiers as well.
Kris is an expert and a professional, so this confirms a real issue.

Gary
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Old 03-23-2008, 10:21 PM   #4
coolmilo coolmilo is offline
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I was able to confirm a loud "pop" with Flight of the Phoenix at 51 minutes into the movie. I have a Panny BD30 and Integra DTC-9.8.

This sux...
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Old 03-24-2008, 05:17 AM   #5
Rike255 Rike255 is offline
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Only on those movies have the issue and all future movies will not have the issue. Sounds like a solved problem to me I wouldn't worry too much.

Also, maybe point out in the topic creator's post that a decoded HD-MA signal (ie LPCM signal send to the receiver) is NOT part of the issue. This means that anyone with a PS3 will NOT encounter this issue.
Since the majority of us use the PS3 as our player, it's important to get that out so those people don't worry.
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Old 03-24-2008, 02:19 PM   #6
chasarms chasarms is offline
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I had this happen when watching "Flyboys" last weekend, a netflix pickup. I had no idea at the time what happened. But, I just did a quick Google and that disc is, in fact, DTS-HD MA encoded.

The "pop" is not high pitch pop but more like a really loud thud. It is REALLY loud. My receiver freaked out. I had to turn it off and back on again to get sound out of it.

I would suggest adding "Flyboys" to the pop list.
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Old 03-24-2008, 04:34 PM   #7
Alaskankaijudude Alaskankaijudude is offline
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Default New Yamahas too?

I know this is an issue with some of the older Yamaha receivers. Can anybody confirm yet whether it affects the new 663 and/or 863?
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Old 03-24-2008, 04:51 PM   #8
chasarms chasarms is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alaskankaijudude View Post
I know this is an issue with some of the older Yamaha receivers. Can anybody confirm yet whether it affects the new 663 and/or 863?
The AVS thread suggests that it is not an issue with the new Yamaha receivers.
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Old 03-24-2008, 05:11 PM   #9
b00st b00st is offline
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from my understanding it does have to do with new yamaha receivers. the 1800 like i have and the 3800.

but you must be bitstreaming...since i have a ps3 as my bluray player...i have not been able to confirm this on my receiver but from what i've read...other 1800/3800 owners have experience this "popping" noise from DTS-HD MA tracks on certain discs. since i cannot bitstream the audio....i cannot confirm this on my receiver.

edit: and one of the 1800 users was not using a BD30 as his player...it was something else.
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Old 03-24-2008, 05:19 PM   #10
Alaskankaijudude Alaskankaijudude is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chasarms View Post
The AVS thread suggests that it is not an issue with the new Yamaha receivers.

I'm in the market for one and will be holding off until I hear more concrete info on if it affects the RX-V863. I will be running the Panny BD-30 through it so want to make sure.
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Old 03-24-2008, 07:15 PM   #11
chasarms chasarms is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b00st View Post
. . . edit: and one of the 1800 users was not using a BD30 as his player...it was something else.

Yes, it seems it has nothing to do with the Panasonic player. It is a combination of certain discs and the Onkyo and Yamaha receivers that use a certain chip set to decode the bitstreamed DTS-HD MA audio.

This is a serious issue. If you heard your system make this sound, you would ABSOLUTELY want to make sure it doesn't do it again. I am certain it could easily damage something if it happened repeatedly. I am very hesitant to even use DTS-HD MA until there is certainty with what is going on.
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Old 03-24-2008, 07:21 PM   #12
Sonny Sonny is offline
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Hurry up with Ps3 internal decoding!!!! Just like in the other thread about this Onkyo is going to cut me a fat check!!
Pioneer 9G Kuro's 5020 with Elite board swap, KRP500m, Elite 111, Elite 151. Onkyo 706, Polk TSi 5.1 all the way around & 10" sub. Pioneer BD player & Panasonic BD player along with three PS3's, all original 60gig units. 2x Harmony 1100 & 1 Harmony 1000 touch screen remotes. About 1,000 Blu-rays...
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Old 03-24-2008, 07:30 PM   #13
un4gvn94538 un4gvn94538 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chasarms View Post
Yes, it seems it has nothing to do with the Panasonic player. It is a combination of certain discs and the Onkyo and Yamaha receivers that use a certain chip set to decode the bitstreamed DTS-HD MA audio.

This is a serious issue. If you heard your system make this sound, you would ABSOLUTELY want to make sure it doesn't do it again. I am certain it could easily damage something if it happened repeatedly. I am very hesitant to even use DTS-HD MA until there is certainty with what is going on.
i planned on getting a stand alone when its released in a few months. this sux
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Old 03-24-2008, 07:44 PM   #14
chasarms chasarms is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by un4gvn94538 View Post
i planned on getting a stand alone when its released in a few months. this sux
Get the BD-50. It will decode the DTS-HD MA internally and there will be no worries.
Panasonic TH-50PZ77U
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Old 03-24-2008, 08:36 PM   #15
un4gvn94538 un4gvn94538 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chasarms View Post
Get the BD-50. It will decode the DTS-HD MA internally and there will be no worries.
no no no no. there is a defect somewhere that needs to be fixed. not worked around. i was looking at sonys 350 for bitstreaming and at that price point. the other sony model has more that i dont need. i bought a recevier that is advertised to do a job not shoot out bombs
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Old 03-24-2008, 11:05 PM   #16
Rike255 Rike255 is offline
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This doesn't seem like a big issue to me I don't get why people are upset. Only those very few movies listed above are actually affected. The issue is resolved in new releases and so you don't have to worry about future movies not working.
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Old 03-24-2008, 11:40 PM   #17
un4gvn94538 un4gvn94538 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rike255 View Post
This doesn't seem like a big issue to me I don't get why people are upset. Only those very few movies listed above are actually affected. The issue is resolved in new releases and so you don't have to worry about future movies not working.
your not worried about it cause your probably planning on always using your ps3. other people however have every reason to be concerned. if they ever decide to buy on of those movies or if they already have one and someone else is playing the movie or maybe it slipped thier mind because they dont like the look of a yellow stickie on the receiver or player to remind them and blow a speaker. or maybe they damage thier recevier. its already been said its possible. i know you dont care about others equipment, but those who use players that bitstream or prefer it for what ever reason do care, and its something that needs to be taken care of. playing a movie is such a small thing that no one should have to worry about thier equipment every time they want to watch a movie. the fact is that the movies are out there. even the fly is still at the store right now. you cannot say who will or will not come across one of the movies in the future
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Old 03-25-2008, 09:10 AM   #18
TheWatcher TheWatcher is offline
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i aint got my 705 yet i hope they put in another chip before i get him i dont want a receiver with bad things in it if this means i have to wait 1 week more so be it
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Old 03-25-2008, 10:08 AM   #19
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Has Onkyo made a comment about this problem yet?
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Old 03-25-2008, 01:53 PM   #20
Robert Siegel Robert Siegel is offline
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I own a PS3 but was considering upgrading my bd player to a stand alone so I could get DTS MA. I own the Yamaha rx-v1800 receiver and this is a real downer. I am glad I havn't been able to send DTS MA bitstreamed yet after reading about this!!!!
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