The DNR Debate - What Side Are You On?

[JJ]

Although I am sure it has been going on for QUITE some time, after reading the recent review of the Golden Compass on the website, I began to think a little more onto it.

Digital Noise Reduction - or, as we all know, the removing of fine grain from movies (i.e., think Warner titles - Troy, Harry Potter - and some New Line, Pan's Labyrinth, Golden Compass - as well as others) have this postproduction feature applied to them during the Blu-ray processing. It removes grain from the movie, but also removes fine details.

I put Pan's Labyrinth as an example. Some say it has excellent, amazing picture quality - others say the DNR has made it look horrible.

What are your opinions on the matter?

Personally, I have no problem with film grain or not, and I happen to think the PQ of titles with DNR is fantastic - but - the common populace for the most part identifies film grain as not part of the high-definition experience - so perhaps DNR is what helps everyday folk see the biggest difference between DVD and Blu-ray. Then again, to the purist...

[Deadset]

I think it really depends on the movie and what the director wanted to show. My 2 cents, it works with some movies, not with others...and I don't mind it.

[wallendo]

I don't like any unnecessary manipulation of recent films, but, on older films which have not physically aged well, a mild amount of DNR would be helpful. (I doubt the director or cinematographer actually wanted dust and scratches to develop over time)

[eChopper]

agreed.

You need an option "ok if applied judiciously"

for what its worth, film-school ******s might decry the Lowry effort on, say, Citizen Kane but theres no way it would have sold to the modern market without the face lift

and it looks gorgeous

[JJ]

Originally Posted by eChopper

agreed.

You need an option "ok if applied judiciously"

for what its worth, film-school ******s might decry the Lowry effort on, say, Citizen Kane but theres no way it would have sold to the modern market without the face lift

and it looks gorgeous

Good point. I really think it is applied more so for the general public than the true specialist or A/V-phile.

[kpkelley]

I treat each movie differently.

Newer films can choose to be processed digitally or through traditional film, and I respect whatever decision the creators made. Movies like the golden compass were intended to looked smooth and washed out, their is a soft focus nostalgia to that movie that goes well the the design of the film.

Older films where they remove grain and deconstruct the original image is the only place where i feel that this practice is reprehensible. They are in essence destroying the original print and removing some of the detail from the image.

[WickyWoo]

Anyone who think's Pan's isn't hurt by DNR look at this:

http://rapidshare.de/files/39255687/...rison.tif.html (sorry too big for imageshack)

[ryoohki]

If you apply to much DNR.. it give a Plastic look and a 'Upconverted DVD Look' so i'am agaisnt it since i pay 30$ for a movie i don't want a 'Little better than DVD' i want how the film is supposed to look... like film..

[MacDaddyOJack]

I thought Harry Potter looked pretty good on Blu, I don't really care if people use it but I don't think it should be an industry standard. The directors should have the option.

[Blu As Hell]

I personally think that DNR has no place in a high-definintion presentation, UNLESS it's done as a part of repairing an older release. A newer film should not be put through any kind of DNR process. Pan's Labyrinth is a prime example, don't get me wrong the Blu-ray release is a beautiful transfer, but as you can see in Wicky's post, even the fine details in "Ofelia's" face are smoothed over.

[andyn1080]

it depends,.........i hate massive grain, alittle is ok, dnr is bad b/c it kills off the fine detail which in my view makes blu-ray so great. so im on the side that like detail but hates massive killer grain.

[wormraper]

DNR is evil. End of story.

[BStecke]

Originally Posted by WickyWoo

Anyone who think's Pan's isn't hurt by DNR look at this:

http://rapidshare.de/files/39255687/...rison.tif.html (sorry too big for imageshack)

Which versions are those shots from? If I remember right, the UK Blu-ray is the one to get. I'm going out on a limb here, but I'm assuming the one on the left is no DNR, right is DNR? He looks a little waxy on the right.

[bajor27]

Originally Posted by BStecke

Which versions are those shots from? If I remember right, the UK Blu-ray is the one to get. I'm going out on a limb here, but I'm assuming the one on the left is no DNR, right is DNR? He looks a little waxy on the right.

Ya. The one on the right looks awful. I would imagine that's the one that's been DNR'd

[almy]

On many highly-praised releases ie PASSAGE TO INDIA (and some not so highly praised) like PREDATOR, in any dark scene without a lot of bright-low contrast, I get these gray "specks" against anything dark. If what I'm seeing is film grain, then yes, get rid of it. If it is somthing else I'd like to know what it is. Compression artifacts? It is very annoying to sit and watch a colorful film that looks great, then suddenly, as a scene switches to night or in-doors, start seeing these specks. If what I'm seeing is indeed "grain" can't DNR be sued selectively as the scenes require?

[jkwest]

DNR is the debil...

[WickyWoo]

I personally think that DNR has no place in a high-definintion presentation, UNLESS it's done as a part of repairing an older release. A newer film should not be put through any kind of DNR process. Pan's Labyrinth is a prime example, don't get me wrong the Blu-ray release is a beautiful transfer, but as you can see in Wicky's post, even the fine details in "Ofelia's" face are smoothed over.

DNR is applied at the original Digital Interpositive stage as Penton has said to provide consistancy and to even out the film

How about "No additional DNR than applied for the theatrical release of a new movie"

Which versions are those shots from? If I remember right, the UK Blu-ray is the one to get. I'm going out on a limb here, but I'm assuming the one on the left is no DNR, right is DNR? He looks a little waxy on the right.

UK on the left, NewLine on the right

Look at his face, the beardline is totally smeared, the different color gradiations in his face have turned into red blobs and all the texture is gone from his uniform, and of course all the pores and other nooks and crannies are gone

[Blu As Hell]

Originally Posted by WickyWoo

DNR is applied at the original Digital Interpositive stage as Penton has said to provide consistancy and to even out the film

How about "No additional DNR than applied for the theatrical release of a new movie"

I'll go with that.

[QwikSand]

What is a show-off quality BD that has DNR?

[JJ]

Originally Posted by QwikSand

What is a show-off quality BD that has DNR?

Some like to say Troy and Pan's Labyrinth.