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Go Back   Blu-ray Forum > Blu-ray > Blu-ray Players and Recorders

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Old 06-22-2008, 02:43 AM   #1
ClinicaTerra LTD ClinicaTerra LTD is offline
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Default Are All Blu-ray Players Created Equal?

Are there major picture quality differences between decks like the typical $500/$600 Panasonics, Sonys, Samsungs, etc. and the decks like Denon's new $2000 flagship -- the same way there are differences between cheap and better DVD players?

I'm wondering if the not-so-hot picture quality and experience I'm seeing on my Panny '10A is the actual player's performance capabilities, or the fact that something like the new Denon, with its Reon or Realta chip, will actually make Blu-rays look tremendously better if that's even at all possible...we know these Reon and Realta chips are great for DVD upscaling improvements, but do the prices of decks like the Denon justify the actual performance they exhibit? Are expensive players like these Denons really going to make the Blu-ray discs look "better" than if they are played on a $500 Panasonic or Sony?
 
Old 06-22-2008, 03:21 AM   #2
jibucha jibucha is offline
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Default Picture Quality l Blu-ray Players

Hello

Having carefully evaluated many Blu-ray Players on a High Quality Professionally Calibrated Display; the differences are outstanding.

While price is certainly a factor, it is not entirely a good measure of picture quality.

I recommend taking the time to compare a few players on your display, and decide for yourself, whether the differences in picture quality are a concern to you.

I do agree with you regarding the picture quality of the Panasonic BMP-10A, that the picture quality is unacceptable. If you want an eye opener of a player; try the Sony BDP-S1 making certain to use the Cinema Mode. The Sony will get you started with High Picture Quality Blu-ray.

If you do decide to compare players; make certain to pay attention to your Front Panel Controls - [Contrast l Brightness l Color l Tint l Gamma l etc].

I hope that this information is helpful to you.


Thank You
 
Old 06-22-2008, 03:40 AM   #3
ClinicaTerra LTD ClinicaTerra LTD is offline
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Hello, Bucha, and Thank You for the Response...

Wow; some of what you say here concerns me because you're one of the first people to have a problem -- besides me -- with the '10A's BLU-RAY performance; it is a known fact that the DVD upscaling capabilities of this deck are horrendous, but they're supposed to be good BD players...at any rate, let me reply specifically to some of your statements here...

Having carefully evaluated many Blu-ray Players on a High Quality Professionally Calibrated Display; the differences are outstanding.

Wow...and I thought all high definition machines were created equal before attempting to post this question...

While price is certainly a factor, it is not entirely a good measure of picture quality.

Are you saying that just because the Denons are $2000, that doesn't mean the discs played on them will look "better" than on a $500 Panasonic?

I do agree with you regarding the picture quality of the Panasonic BMP-10A, that the picture quality is unacceptable.

Really? Indeed, I have never heard someone call the BLU-RAY performance of this player "unacceptable"...some discs look better than others, but I was never sure if it was the way they were mastered or the player itself; what makes you say Blu-rays on here look unacceptable? I know DVDs look totally atrocious on this machine but I didn't realize other people were thinking Blu-rays looked that bad... HOWEVER, that said, I did find online some review of this player and the reviewer stated that he found a "twitchy" appearance to Blu-rays and some kind of "noisy dithering" that he contributed to just poor performance on this model, so I'm beginning to wonder if it is indeed the '10A...

If you want an eye opener of a player; try the Sony BDP-S1 making certain to use the Cinema Mode. The Sony will get you started with High Picture Quality Blu-ray.

The reason I didn't go with a Sony or other brand was because the Panasonic, at the time I bought it, had the capability of Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD output; although they were internally decoded and this machine did not support Master Audio at all, I purchased it anyway -- now I'm beginning to wonder if I should trade up.

Is the Sony you mention the ES line model? Does it include bitstreaming for TrueHD and Master Audio? Those are major buying factors for me now as I want my Onkyo TX-SR605 to do the decoding of these tracks...

You recommend the Sony even over the flagship Denon or even over the $999 Denon BD deck?

If you do decide to compare players; make certain to pay attention to your Front Panel Controls - [Contrast l Brightness l Color l Tint l Gamma l etc].

I don't use any of these settings on my Panasonic right now; I leave the picture mode on NORMAL as I have been told these settings shouldn't be played with on the PLAYER and these adjustments should be crucial when calibrating the DISPLAY...
 
Old 06-22-2008, 12:41 PM   #4
bhampton bhampton is offline
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Are All Blu-ray Players Created Equal?

No.

Features vary. Build quality certainly varies. Access to and processing of HD Audio formats varies widely.

There's lots of differences.

-Brian
Blu Rays are Forever
 
Old 06-22-2008, 02:56 PM   #5
ryoohki ryoohki is offline
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If you use 1080p @ 24fps mode all player are pretty much the same. BUT for 1080i/480i material (Shows, couple of release, etc.) they differ a lot
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Old 06-22-2008, 07:21 PM   #6
ClinicaTerra LTD ClinicaTerra LTD is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bhampton View Post
Are All Blu-ray Players Created Equal?

No.

Features vary. Build quality certainly varies. Access to and processing of HD Audio formats varies widely.

There's lots of differences.

-Brian
So can you tell me what would be the difference between the $500/$600 garden variety Panasonics, Sonys, etc. and the $2000 Denons...would the Denon produce a much more stunning high def image?
 
Old 06-22-2008, 07:22 PM   #7
ClinicaTerra LTD ClinicaTerra LTD is offline
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If you use 1080p @ 24fps mode all player are pretty much the same.

Is this true?
 
Old 06-22-2008, 11:49 PM   #8
Clark Kent Clark Kent is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClinicaTerra LTD View Post
If you use 1080p @ 24fps mode all player are pretty much the same.

Is this true?
If it's not the truth it's very close. There are some very minor differences between the Blu-ray output of various players connected to a calibrated display but it would take a trained eye to identify the differences.
 
Old 06-23-2008, 05:01 AM   #9
ClinicaTerra LTD ClinicaTerra LTD is offline
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Thanks Supey...

If that's the case then, with Blu-ray players, why do some decks like the $2000 Denon, command that price?
 
Old 06-23-2008, 11:59 AM   #10
bhampton bhampton is offline
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Denon commands the price in part due to it's brand name and reputation. (That said,.. the build quality and styling are very nice on the Denon Blu Ray players from what I can see.)

Players that output things via analog have digital to analog converters and analog circuits and it's easier to lose quality in analog circuits then in the purely digital domain.

If a player outputs everything digitally (audio and video) it's almost conceptually like it's sending email to the other equipment. It's a digital signal and therefore processing doesn't mean degradation of the signal.

I typed this in and posted it... how's the text? Is it fuzzy? I did this on a macbook are the colors spot on because I have a feeling if I used my PC it wouldn't look this good. (sarcastic way of trying to make a point.) I'm one of the people that believe that bits are bits. (Though it's a subject of HiFi controversy.)

If you pull up the players tab here on Bluray.com and read through the specs of different players you will see that in the case of HD Audio there are big differences in the capabilities of players.

Then you have the profiles issue. Some players are profile 1 some 1.1 and the PS3 is profile 2.0 (There may be other 2.0 players now,.. I don't know.)

-Brian
Blu Rays are Forever
 
Old 06-23-2008, 07:38 PM   #11
ClinicaTerra LTD ClinicaTerra LTD is offline
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Hey Brian,

Thanks for the reply. Some things here concern me, though.

Denon commands the price in part due to it's brand name and reputation. (That said,.. the build quality and styling are very nice on the Denon Blu Ray players from what I can see.)

Well, that may be; I'm just wondering why their flagship player is two grand and the Panasonics, Sonys, etc. are only $4-600...is the $2000 Denon going to make Blu-ray films look THAT much different from what I'm seeing with my Panny '10A now?

Players that output things via analog have digital to analog converters and analog circuits and it's easier to lose quality in analog circuits then in the purely digital domain.

If a player outputs everything digitally (audio and video) it's almost conceptually like it's sending email to the other equipment. It's a digital signal and therefore processing doesn't mean degradation of the signal.


The ONLY connection I would be using would be HDMI OUT; given this criteria, do the differences between $500 and $2000 models matter?

If you pull up the players tab here on Bluray.com and read through the specs of different players you will see that in the case of HD Audio there are big differences in the capabilities of players.

...but the HD audio characteristics are drastically different even when talking about digitally bitstreamed codecs, etc? Don't forget -- I wouldn't be using analog outs from these players...
 
Old 06-23-2008, 08:29 PM   #12
Entertainment72 Entertainment72 is offline
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Denon Blu playback compared to a 500-600 sony panny blu playback if marginally better if at all, I personally do not believe it is. Mind I said blu playback, if upconversion is your game I would say it is better.

The short answer to your question is NO, the Denon is not worth the extra $1500 or so.
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Old 06-23-2008, 09:34 PM   #13
ClinicaTerra LTD ClinicaTerra LTD is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Entertainment72 View Post
Denon Blu playback compared to a 500-600 sony panny blu playback if marginally better if at all, I personally do not believe it is. Mind I said blu playback, if upconversion is your game I would say it is better.

The short answer to your question is NO, the Denon is not worth the extra $1500 or so.
Hello Entertainment...

Thanks for your input. I was originally thinking I would get a new BD deck for good upconversion, too, but recently changed that train of thought to thinking I would just get a good upscaling DVD player like the Oppo 983 just for DVD playback...

But what concerns me about your statement was that the other members before you said these things about the differences between Blu-ray players:

Butcha said this:

Having carefully evaluated many Blu-ray Players on a High Quality Professionally Calibrated Display; the differences are outstanding.

While price is certainly a factor, it is not entirely a good measure of picture quality.

I recommend taking the time to compare a few players on your display, and decide for yourself, whether the differences in picture quality are a concern to you.

I do agree with you regarding the picture quality of the Panasonic BMP-10A, that the picture quality is unacceptable. If you want an eye opener of a player; try the Sony BDP-S1 making certain to use the Cinema Mode. The Sony will get you started with High Picture Quality Blu-ray.

If you do decide to compare players; make certain to pay attention to your Front Panel Controls - [Contrast l Brightness l Color l Tint l Gamma l etc].


...and then B Hampton said this:

Are All Blu-ray Players Created Equal?

No.

Features vary. Build quality certainly varies. Access to and processing of HD Audio formats varies widely.

There's lots of differences.


...and then "ryoohki" said this:

If you use 1080p @ 24fps mode all player are pretty much the same. BUT for 1080i/480i material (Shows, couple of release, etc.) they differ a lot

...and then Clark Kent said this:

There are some very minor differences between the Blu-ray output of various players connected to a calibrated display but it would take a trained eye to identify the differences.

...and then B Hampton said this...

Denon commands the price in part due to it's brand name and reputation. (That said,.. the build quality and styling are very nice on the Denon Blu Ray players from what I can see.)

Players that output things via analog have digital to analog converters and analog circuits and it's easier to lose quality in analog circuits then in the purely digital domain.

If a player outputs everything digitally (audio and video) it's almost conceptually like it's sending email to the other equipment. It's a digital signal and therefore processing doesn't mean degradation of the signal.

I typed this in and posted it... how's the text? Is it fuzzy? I did this on a macbook are the colors spot on because I have a feeling if I used my PC it wouldn't look this good. (sarcastic way of trying to make a point.) I'm one of the people that believe that bits are bits. (Though it's a subject of HiFi controversy.)

If you pull up the players tab here on Bluray.com and read through the specs of different players you will see that in the case of HD Audio there are big differences in the capabilities of players.

Then you have the profiles issue. Some players are profile 1 some 1.1 and the PS3 is profile 2.0 (There may be other 2.0 players now,.. I don't know.)


...so it seems so difficult to make heads or tails of whether or not there are differences between $500/$600 players and the high end Denons, etc...there's so much variation between opinions...
 
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